Strange prism you're looking through. I guess, in the same manner, being a teacher is more honorable than being born in Panama.
I didn't say that, but if that's what you understood, I'll explain. I listed a number of his two faced, double talking copouts and posted a link to more about them. Because of that behavior, no amount of courage or sacrafice in his past does anything to excuse who he is, now, let alone qualify him to be President of the United States of America.
Yes, it is, but the man McSame is parroting has damaged it severely, possibly beyond repair at least within our lifetimes. I won't vote for more of the McSame war of lies, more of the McSame irresponsible fiscal policies and more pandering to the McSame lobbyists who have been raping our nation while lining their own pockets. :thumbsdown:
I don't think it disqualifies him. he chose to serve. he had any number of opportunities to take the easy way out and did not. it's a nice contrast to GWB who joined the national guard to dodge the draft and may or may not have spent the entire time getting drunk and doing blow.
:thumbsup:
of course? I don't think every Panamanian who's ever lived is qualified to be president just because they were born in Panama. I don't really grok the point you're trying to make. I could just be tired and suffering from this heat. hah.
- Jul 18, 2004
- 1,385
- 1
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Somewhat predictably, this ended up being all about politics rather than the story I posted. I suppose I'm as responsible for that as anybody else. In any event, why doesn't everyone take a break and just read the thing?
I promise, it's worth it even if you don't like McCain now and would never vote for him in a million years. John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account
Here, I'll start you off:
We don't have many genuine heroes left in public service. McCain is one of them and another is Senator James Webb. Again, regardless of whether you agree with them on the issues, these men demand and deserve our respect.
I promise, it's worth it even if you don't like McCain now and would never vote for him in a million years. John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account
Here, I'll start you off:
We don't have many genuine heroes left in public service. McCain is one of them and another is Senator James Webb. Again, regardless of whether you agree with them on the issues, these men demand and deserve our respect.
Kerouactivist
Diamond Member
- Jul 12, 2001
- 4,665
- 0
- 76
(If Mccain was a democrat this is the story line that would be getting thrown around))
He is no hero he betrayed this country and spilled all the beans to the enemy on intel...
He cracked because he is weak and is probably still being controlled by vietnamese intelligence services...Obviously McCain is a traitor....and was brainwashed by the viet-cong..to be a commie and if he is elected will make stalin look like a libertarian...
He is no hero he betrayed this country and spilled all the beans to the enemy on intel...
He cracked because he is weak and is probably still being controlled by vietnamese intelligence services...Obviously McCain is a traitor....and was brainwashed by the viet-cong..to be a commie and if he is elected will make stalin look like a libertarian...
As one of two major political candidates, anything intended to polish McCain's image IS about politics, whether or not it's intended that way.
Your title calls him a "hero." For the reasons I posted, I see his heroism is a thing of the past, but in no way does it excuse or outweigh who he is and what he's doing, today.
We don't owe anyone anything. Respect is something you earn and not something you have to ask for.
JD50
Lifer
- Sep 4, 2005
- 11,865
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I'd really like to see an example of the right doing this to a liberal former POW. I'm sure you have one.
All I see is the exact opposite of 4 years ago, when the left was slobbering all over Kerry and his war record while denouncing Bush for his lack of service. Now you have the exact opposite, proving that both Republicans and Democrats are complete hypocrites.
dawp
Lifer
- Jul 2, 2005
- 11,347
- 2,709
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I would not go that far, the only qualifation for President it the ability to get elected, weather or not he can do the job. Just look at Bush. Completely unqualified for the office of President. All he had was the ability to charm the right wing voters and get elected.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
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I for one waded through the 17 or so pages, and my dominant impression is that McCain did not learn a damn thing in all those years of imprisonment. And even if John McCain remained resolute, he was not released until the war was over and Nixon surrendered. We could contrast that with someone like Nelson Mendella who spent a longer part of his life behind bars, but somehow acquired the inner tranquility to lead a nation away from the path of revenge and hatred.
But the larger military service of McCain is somewhat mixed, family pull probably got him into Annapolis where he graduated six from the bottom of a class of some 800. We just had a thread regarding his former flight instructor saying he was rather inept. But still, the story of his captivity, shared with many of his fellow prisoners, still shows all of them were similarly resolute. I do not think it elevates McCain to war hero status, but still we should all be willing to acknowledge he did his duty as an American soldier under very difficult circumstances.
But to me the telling remark was in the McCain comment under much later integration when he stated he had no remorse, and if he were given another chance, he would get right back in the plane and start bombing the North Vietnamese once again. And in the case of the Vietnamese people, they showed a similar resoluteness and an almost unlimited ability to absorb punishment. Giving the hated occupier the ole heave ho has been something the Vietnamese people have done countless times in their 3000 plus year old history and the USA have just been the latest in a series of hated occupiers to get the boot. And to listen to McCain recount his story, he makes it sound as if his resoluteness
won the Vietnam war when the USA was the one that lost.
And here we go again, we are again stuck in two quagmires where the people we are trying to occupy show the same resoluteness the USA is trying to show. Is that what we want in the next commander and chief, mere stubborn resoluteness as he tosses another generation of American men in the the meat grinder of war with a guarantee that both sides will pay horrible forfeits for their leader's stubbornness?
Or do we want someone with wisdom that says thats an expensive game to play, and some sort of compromise and middle ground diplomacy will likely be more productive. Some may say such a wimpish latter course is tantamount to surrender, but face the damn facts, even though Nixon called it peace with honor, Nixon surrendered in Vietnam,
the Soviet Union surrendered when it tried to occupy Afghanistan, and for that matter, the same thing happened when the Brits tried to occupy Iraq almost 90 years before. All in all, Military occupations have limited shelf lives, and they must not ever become of a matter of trying to overstay the welcome.
As I said before, I see no evidence that John S. McCain has learned a damn thing from the most instructive school in the world, namely the school of hard knocks.
But the larger military service of McCain is somewhat mixed, family pull probably got him into Annapolis where he graduated six from the bottom of a class of some 800. We just had a thread regarding his former flight instructor saying he was rather inept. But still, the story of his captivity, shared with many of his fellow prisoners, still shows all of them were similarly resolute. I do not think it elevates McCain to war hero status, but still we should all be willing to acknowledge he did his duty as an American soldier under very difficult circumstances.
But to me the telling remark was in the McCain comment under much later integration when he stated he had no remorse, and if he were given another chance, he would get right back in the plane and start bombing the North Vietnamese once again. And in the case of the Vietnamese people, they showed a similar resoluteness and an almost unlimited ability to absorb punishment. Giving the hated occupier the ole heave ho has been something the Vietnamese people have done countless times in their 3000 plus year old history and the USA have just been the latest in a series of hated occupiers to get the boot. And to listen to McCain recount his story, he makes it sound as if his resoluteness
won the Vietnam war when the USA was the one that lost.
And here we go again, we are again stuck in two quagmires where the people we are trying to occupy show the same resoluteness the USA is trying to show. Is that what we want in the next commander and chief, mere stubborn resoluteness as he tosses another generation of American men in the the meat grinder of war with a guarantee that both sides will pay horrible forfeits for their leader's stubbornness?
Or do we want someone with wisdom that says thats an expensive game to play, and some sort of compromise and middle ground diplomacy will likely be more productive. Some may say such a wimpish latter course is tantamount to surrender, but face the damn facts, even though Nixon called it peace with honor, Nixon surrendered in Vietnam,
the Soviet Union surrendered when it tried to occupy Afghanistan, and for that matter, the same thing happened when the Brits tried to occupy Iraq almost 90 years before. All in all, Military occupations have limited shelf lives, and they must not ever become of a matter of trying to overstay the welcome.
As I said before, I see no evidence that John S. McCain has learned a damn thing from the most instructive school in the world, namely the school of hard knocks.
Originally posted by: Dari
You're in heat? Figures
http://www.wnbc.com/news/16536912/detail.html ftl
though it looks like you're in the same boat.
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Dari
You're in heat? Figures
http://www.wnbc.com/news/16536912/detail.html ftl
though it looks like you're in the same boat.
Yeah. I just returned from Osaka today and I felt like I was in an oven.
I read his story and it has only re-enforced my previous beliefs. He's a follower failed and false ideology - Neo-Conservatism.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
- 65,718
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I have a great deal of respect for McCain's "service" in the Hanoi Hilton. By any account, those were not easy billets. There have been a couple of attempts to "swiftboat" him over some alleged rumors of favoritism because of his father's position, but they seem to be mere vapors with little-to-no substance...and that's good. However, when you read about his involvment in the USS Forrestal "incident", it casts a very dark cloud over his service record. MOST accounts indicate that the whole thing was of McCain's causing:
http://judicial-inc.biz/82jjohn_mccain_and_the_uss_forresta.htm
http://tekgnosis.typepad.com/t...2/john-mccain-and.html
http://www.vietnamveteransagai...mccain_lost_five_u.htm
(20 hours of flight time (combat flight) and 28 medals? Sounds like someone was sucking up to his Daddy)
His involvment in the Keating 5 makes him unsuitable IMO for the Presidency.
http://www.realchange.org/mccain.htm
http://www.slate.com/id/1004633/
http://www.azcentral.com/news/...ccainbio-chapter7.html
http://judicial-inc.biz/82jjohn_mccain_and_the_uss_forresta.htm
http://tekgnosis.typepad.com/t...2/john-mccain-and.html
http://www.vietnamveteransagai...mccain_lost_five_u.htm
(20 hours of flight time (combat flight) and 28 medals? Sounds like someone was sucking up to his Daddy)
His involvment in the Keating 5 makes him unsuitable IMO for the Presidency.
http://www.realchange.org/mccain.htm
http://www.slate.com/id/1004633/
http://www.azcentral.com/news/...ccainbio-chapter7.html
So, he's a real grade-A asshole, but he was captured in combat... So now he's cool? Why do people act like indignant jerk-offs when people don't like politicians that have "served"? He's not U.S. representative material, no amount of military service can change that one way or the other. And no, being in the military does not make you "more of a man" (it doesn't make you less of a man, either, though).
He served our country and that's fine, but he has always used that like it's some kind of right of passage.
The fact remains that the War we face today is very different from yester year when he served. He wasn't a ground commander he was a pilot.
I think not, yeah sure he encountered hardships but so did countless other service members and they aren't being called "American Hero's". In fact most of them who served during that time are not even discussed at all.
- another mouth full, and individual opinion, if you want a real HERO then read about 'Miracle' Marine loses final battle. or countless other service members.
- and this one takes the cake. How do you exactly measure being twice the man? How do you determine this to be a factor? Just beacuse he has served doesn't mean he is a better leader. Just because he was a POW doesn't make him a clear choice for president.
The fact remains that the War we face today is very different from yester year when he served. He wasn't a ground commander he was a pilot.
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