John McCain--American Hero

[Woofmeister]

Senator John McCain has given a lifetime of service to this country--both in and out of uniform. He has endured the worst that our enemies could inflict and responded with courage and honor. He is a model of what we used to expect from our leaders before life became so easy for us that we forgot what it means to truly be a hero.

Vote for him or don't, disagree with him on the issues if you must (I disagree with him on a bunch of them) but never forget that McCain is twice the man most of us will ever be.

U.S. News and World Report is running the story on John McCain's captitivity in North Vietnam that originally appeared in their May 14, 1973 issue. Fittingly, it is the most viewed story on their website today. It's long, but worth the read.

John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First Person Account

We don't necessarily owe John McCain the presidency for the years he spent as a POW, but we all owe him our respect and admiration.

 

[Stoneburner]

I agree, the john mccain from the day of his birth to around the year 2000 is greatly deserving of respect.

Edit: Except for that keating 5 stuff.

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
I agree, the john mccain from the day of his birth to around the year 2000 is greatly deserving of respect.

Edit: Except for that keating 5 stuff.

And after 2000, not deserving of respect? :roll:

 

[sandorski]

If only he'd had won the nomination in 2000 instead of Bush.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister
And after 2000, not deserving of respect? :roll:

Not after he cashed in his integrity to become Bush's lapdog.

 

[Vic]

One of McCain's biggest problems IMO is that all he ever really did in his life was be a POW. The rest was mostly given to him because a "war hero" always makes a good frontman for any political machine.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Vic
One of McCain's biggest problems IMO is that all he ever really did in his life was be a POW. The rest was mostly given to him because a "war hero" always makes a good frontman for any political machine.

I don't think it's *that* he was a POW, but what he did while there (ie: not using family connections to gtfo, serving as a chaplain for his fellow soldiers, etc)

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: Vic
One of McCain's biggest problems IMO is that all he ever really did in his life was be a POW. The rest was mostly given to him because a "war hero" always makes a good frontman for any political machine.

I'm curious Vic, out of every person who ran for the nomination this year, Democrat, Republican, Other, name one who has more accomplishments than McCain even forgetting McCain's "war hero" status?

 

[Sinsear]

John McCain is a great American. His service to this country is widely known. Doesn't necessarily mean he will make a great President.

but never forget that McCain is twice the man most of us will ever be.

Just because someone never served in the military, or wasn't a POW, or brokered some great peace treaty somewhere, or won a Nobel rize for this or that doesn't necessarily make them any better or less than someone else. Everyone has their place in the great machine of life, and the fireman or police officer or farmer or banker or janitor for that matter all have an important place.

All that being said I will still probably vote for him because I identify with him better than I do with Obama and the people and causes he represents.

 

[JJChicken]

Even Obama says he served his country well. No-one is denying that fact.

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Woofmeister
And after 2000, not deserving of respect? :roll:

Not after he cashed in his integrity to become Bush's lapdog.

McCain voted with Bush when he agreed with him, voted against Bush and the rest of the Republican Congress when he disagreed with them. McCain's party unity score as calculated by Congressional Quarterly ranks him one of the most rebellious Republicans in the Senate as reported by FactCheck.Org

In 2006, McCain?s party unity score was 76 percent (and he was present for 94 percent of such votes). That year, McCain?s fairly low score ranked him sixth on the list of Senate Republicans who most opposed their party.

Compare McCain's party unity score in 2006 of 76 percent with Obama's 96 Percent party unity score in the same year.

I guess by your standard, Obama is Harry Reid's lapdog?

 

[owensdj]

I think this is a bit dangerous. Just because he was a fine soldier doesn't mean he'll make a fine President, as some people seem to be thinking. I'll be looking at his policies, record in the Senate, and performance in the debates as a guide to how he compares to Barack Obama.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Woofmeister
And after 2000, not deserving of respect? :roll:

Not after he cashed in his integrity to become Bush's lapdog.

McCain voted with Bush when he agreed with him, voted against Bush and the rest of the Republican Congress when he disagreed with them. McCain's party unity score as calculated by Congressional Quarterly ranks him one of the most rebellious Republicans in the Senate as reported by FactCheck.Org

In 2006, McCain?s party unity score was 76 percent (and he was present for 94 percent of such votes). That year, McCain?s fairly low score ranked him sixth on the list of Senate Republicans who most opposed their party.

Your arguments are embarrassingly transparent.

I already made a thread about McCain's party unity earlier. Out of the eight years Bush has been in office (including 2008 to date), McCain has voted with Bush ~90% or better in 7 of those 8 years. That includes 95% in 2007 and 100% so far in 2008.

On any given afternoon, you can walk into The Oval Office and find Bush sitting at his desk while McCain is under it.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: owensdj
I think this is a bit dangerous. Just because he was a fine soldier doesn't mean he'll make a fine President, as some people seem to be thinking. I'll be looking at his policies, record in the Senate, and performance in the debates as a guide to how he compares to Barack Obama.

Yeah. Look at Grant. War Hero, one of the finest generals we've ever had. Piss Poor President

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
John McCain is a great American. His service to this country is widely known. Doesn't necessarily mean he will make a great President.

but never forget that McCain is twice the man most of us will ever be.

Just because someone never served in the military, or wasn't a POW, or brokered some great peace treaty somewhere, or won a Nobel rize for this or that doesn't necessarily make them any better or less than someone else. Everyone has their place in the great machine of life, and the fireman or police officer or farmer or banker or janitor for that matter all have an important place.

I agree 100% with what you wrote there. But, unless we are going to start designating every man and woman that wears the uniform a hero, he certainly isn't. What did he do that was so heroic? Perhaps the OP can fill me in on that part.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Woofmeister

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Woofmeister
And after 2000, not deserving of respect? :roll:

Not after he cashed in his integrity to become Bush's lapdog.

McCain voted with Bush when he agreed with him, voted against Bush and the rest of the Republican Congress when he disagreed with them. McCain's party unity score as calculated by Congressional Quarterly ranks him one of the most rebellious Republicans in the Senate as reported by FactCheck.Org

In 2006, McCain?s party unity score was 76 percent (and he was present for 94 percent of such votes). That year, McCain?s fairly low score ranked him sixth on the list of Senate Republicans who most opposed their party.

Your arguments are embarrassingly transparent.

I already made a thread about McCain's party unity earlier. Out of the eight years Bush has been in office (including 2008 to date), McCain has voted with Bush ~90% or better in 7 of those 8 years. That includes 95% in 2007 and 100% so far in 2008.

On any given afternoon, you can walk into The Oval Office and find Bush sitting at his desk while McCain is under it.

that claim is roughly as meaningful as calling Obama the most liberal senator.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
I agree, the john mccain from the day of his birth to around the year 2000 is greatly deserving of respect.

Edit: Except for that keating 5 stuff.

And after 2000, not deserving of respect? :roll:

That's right. He's NOT deserving of respect. McSame is running on his reputation as a war hero, and he's overstepped any credibility he got from that long ago. Now, he's just another two faced political whore pandering to whoever he thinks will vote for him.

Will the real John McCain stand up

All through his career, first as a hero of the Vietnam war and then in Capitol Hill, John McCain has been a maverick, unafraid to stand up to those he opposed. But now, as the presidential race hots up, the Republican candidate is busy befriending those he once despised and ridiculed - the religious right, the gun lobby and the Iraq war hawks. So what kind of man is Barack Obama up against? By Ed Pilkington

Ask any American what they know about John McCain and they will probably reply that he is a war hero who survived years of brutality in a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp. They might add that he is a maverick, free-thinking spirit who values independence and integrity above toeing the party line.

That is the Old John McCain, the one that has been written about in umpteen newspaper profiles, the one whose campaign bus is called the Straight Talk Express. But while all eyes have been on Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, a new John McCain has been emerging. For the past 407 days, since he threw his hat into the presidential ring in April 2007, McCain has been criss-crossing the country, presenting an image of himself that runs counter to his long-standing reputation.
.
.
(continues)

It's a long article so I won't paste it all, here, but you can read it if you want to. Basically, it documents that:

• He was against the Bush war. Now, he's for it.
  
• He voted against Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy. Now, he's for them.
  
• He was against the right wing dogma of religious wingnuts like Falwell or Pat Robertson. Now, he's kissing their asses.
  
• He was co-author of the McCain-Feingold campaign reform act. Now, his staff is riddled, top to bottom, with big money lobbyists.

The list goes on. McSame couldn't keep his Double Talk Express on track if it had training wheels. :roll:

 

[StageLeft]

There are plenty of people more of a man than me although very few of them by virtue of being in the armed services have gained a strong command of competency and intellect to the degree requried to execute, properly, the office of POTUS.

 

[Woofmeister]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Woofmeister

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
I agree, the john mccain from the day of his birth to around the year 2000 is greatly deserving of respect.

Edit: Except for that keating 5 stuff.

And after 2000, not deserving of respect? :roll:

That's right. He's NOT deserving of respect. McSame is running on his reputation as a war hero, and he's overstepped any credibility he got from that long ago. Now, he's just another two faced political whore pandering to whoever he thinks will vote for him.

Will the real John McCain stand up

All through his career, first as a hero of the Vietnam war and then in Capitol Hill, John McCain has been a maverick, unafraid to stand up to those he opposed. But now, as the presidential race hots up, the Republican candidate is busy befriending those he once despised and ridiculed - the religious right, the gun lobby and the Iraq war hawks. So what kind of man is Barack Obama up against? By Ed Pilkington

Ask any American what they know about John McCain and they will probably reply that he is a war hero who survived years of brutality in a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp. They might add that he is a maverick, free-thinking spirit who values independence and integrity above toeing the party line.

That is the Old John McCain, the one that has been written about in umpteen newspaper profiles, the one whose campaign bus is called the Straight Talk Express. But while all eyes have been on Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, a new John McCain has been emerging. For the past 407 days, since he threw his hat into the presidential ring in April 2007, McCain has been criss-crossing the country, presenting an image of himself that runs counter to his long-standing reputation.
.
.
(continues)

It's a long article so I won't paste it all, here, but you can read it if you want to. Basically, it documents that:

• He was against the Bush war. Now, he's for it.
  
• He voted against Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy. Now, he's for them.
  
• He was against the right wing dogma of religious wingnuts like Falwell or Pat Robertson. Now, he's kissing their asses.
  
• He was co-author of the McCain-Feingold campaign reform act. Now, his staff is riddled, top to bottom, with big money lobbyists.

The list goes on. McSame couldn't keep his Double Talk Express on track if it had training wheels. :roll:

So you don't think McCain's courage and sacrifice are worthy of respect because he's changed his position on taxes and he has some lobbyists involved in his campaign?

Nice. Wonderful country we have here.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister


Vote for him or don't, disagree with him on the issues if you must (I disagree with him on a bunch of them) but never forget that McCain is twice the man most of us will ever be.

And both of him have very distinct opinions on the issues; which McCain are you voting for?

 

[nageov3t]

Harvey's calling McCain a flip-flopper... it's a topsy turvy world we're living in.

seemed like just 4 years ago that switching positions for political expediency was the in thing to do.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Woofmeister
Nice. Wonderful country we have here.

There's plenty wrong with our country, actually.

That's why I'm not voting for McSame.

 

[sportage]

This is a good post because it brings us an issue I wanted to start.

The question...
Does ANY military service man/woman with honors above reproach "DESERVE" to be president?

If you say YES, then...

Would not ?ANY? black man/woman, able to rise above the hate and bigotry in THIS country we live, then ALSO "deserve" to be president?

Yes, we own our fighting men/women a special honor.

But... Then don?t we also "owe" a long over due correction of reapect to our black citizens, in the same light?

Remember the lynchings in the old south, Abe Lincoln being murdered by a raciest for his fight for equality, the water hoses and clubs turned on the black protesters in the 1960's, not to mention the KKK and their hate bombings of black churches and more lynchings, slavery, blacks forced to sit at the back of public busses, and on and on.
I can not begin to cover all issues, but you make your own list...

So my point is which comes out on top, number one in line for a long deserved fairness.

A war hero? Or a black person?

Should THIS even be an issue, in all fairness?

 

[nageov3t]

sacrificing and serving your country is more honorable than happening to be born to a black non-african american father.

neither serves as a qualification to be president.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: loki8481
I don't think it's *that* he was a POW, but what he did while there (ie: not using family connections to gtfo, serving as a chaplain for his fellow soldiers, etc)

That wasn't "family connections," his father, Admiral John McCain II, was the US naval commander-in-chief for the entire SE Asian theater.