Conversely: what observations can be made to even make the supposition that G-d doesn't exist? None.
Conversely: what observations can be made to even make the supposition that G-d doesn't exist? None.
Think about this. If I'm wrong with all these others and Christ doesn't exist, I just spent my life trying to live right in the name of Jesus and I'll just die and not exist anymore. But if I'm right I'll live Eternity in the presence of God the Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Angels, and all of my Christian brothers and sisters in happiness for all of Eternity. Thats really it in a nutshell. Now think about if your right or wrong? What options are avaliable for you?
Thanks for your concern but I'll live my life just fine without any concern for a non-existent "hereafter".
IF there is one...I'll just hang around and haunt someone.
About 90% of the people I work with BRAG about stuff. That's what he is doing. I'm sure it's offending you. You made that point in your first post.
I'm just saying, that you should be able to handle it.
Is your boss your friend? Or is he just your boss?
I'm sure just like me, you have friends that do retarted stuff in public. You just have to deal with it or not hang out with the guy anymore.
If he is that out spoken, then you talking to him about it won't do much for the problem.
I dunno, slap the guy.
-Aaron
- Jan 16, 2001
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Your first error is that you assume that I believe in God. Your second error is that I'm putting "mans' laws above Gods."
The only laws I acknowledge are legal laws and good manners, which are standards of behavior set forth by civilized peoples. If I don't believe in God or the bible, all your thinking goes right out the window, now doesn't it?
halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
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wow thats little exteme... singing is definitely not work appropriate.. definitely not in the setup you described above. My girlfriends family says the grace before any big meal, and its fine if you do it to your self. But singing out loud is just outta whack. How would oyu feel if some muslim guy started screaming allah is great in the middle of lunch? Probably not too happy.
A lot of christians (in cluding classy might add) are very supportive in religously-motivated acts, as long as it's their religion. Like take the 10 commandment statue at that one courthouse. All christian people that i know were in favor of keeping it there, so i asked them how would they feel about an "allah is great" sign above the door. Surely enough they didn't like that idea at all...
A lot of christians (in cluding classy might add) are very supportive in religously-motivated acts, as long as it's their religion. Like take the 10 commandment statue at that one courthouse. All christian people that i know were in favor of keeping it there, so i asked them how would they feel about an "allah is great" sign above the door. Surely enough they didn't like that idea at all...
Typical...answer a question with a question.
See...you have NO basis for your beliefs other than you were taught to believe it. I'd be willing to bet you've never given serious thought to the basis for your religion (unless you've gone to some sort of seminary school or something or have personally witnessed some sort of walking on water miracle.)
The existance and actions of men which were given free will by G-d do not disprove the existance of G-d. Try again.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
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As much as that makes perfect logical sense and is right a couple of problems occur from it:
1) I don't know if God will be pleased in you getting to heaven and him finding that you following him was really just a backup plan or a safety or whatever.
2) Whether you're right or not doesn't change the fact that somebody who personally does not believe in God cannot start doing so simply because what you say in that argument above is right. If Bob doesn't believe, he can read your argument and realize you're correct, but just because he agrees with the argument doesn't mean he can force himself to believe in something he currently does not.
halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
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Well you're forgetting the jillion other ways to live your life. You can take the way of Zen and reincarnate untill you reach Nirvana. Or follow koran and get the 69 virgins and heaven and stuff. Or you could be hindi and burn in hell because of hamburgers, or you could ....
It's not just believe in jesus / dont believe in anything. Theres huge number of philosophies to follow
Bingo!
You just hit upon a BIG problem I have with the Christian faith (Well, Islam, too). The ol' "It's my way or the highway -[to hell]" mentality.
Utter arrogance.
My God is better than your God because I said so and if you don't believe in MY God, you're going to what MY religion calls hell!
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -- Stephen F. Roberts
Schrödinger is spinning now.Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: classy
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: classy
Hmmm.....if he needs to keep his comments to himself why don't you hypocrites do the same. If you can talk about him, why can't he talk about Jesus? Its amazing not once did this cry baby say he forced his religion on him. All he said was he gave thanks out loud. Besides anyway, the fact is and its a fact whenther you choose to believe or not, Jesus will be your judge and your jury when you die. And the funny thing is your sorrowful opinion will not mean a thing then. My suggestion to those who don't believe enjoy this life to its fullest, because ETERNITY waits. Its amazing the decisions you make in 80 or so years in this life if your lucky, will determine the rest of your ETERNITY folks. You know what I also always find funny. Is the complete and utter nonsense that your belief creates God. lol Like if I don't believe then he doesn't exist....hehehe. Its like saying if I don't believe in Twinkies they don't exist
Oh, so you're saying you have proof that God exists?
WOW!
Do tell!!
Hmm.......can you prove he doesn't exist?
I knew it!
Typical response...prove something DOESN'T exist for something you can't prove does!
What's the role of science? To prove why things happen or that things exist or to rule out possibilities.
God was created by man as a concept to answer the unknown. Why do you think we have the Greek/Roman Titans/Gods? Or Native American Gods/Spirits?
The creation of Gods/supernatural beings arose out of ignorance of how the world works (why the sun rises/falls, why does it rain, etc.) Where did we come from? Uhh...must be some omnipotent being that had nothing better to do after having sat all alone for billions of years.
The most important scientific principle is that if one cannot prove something exists or does not exist (is true is not true), they must accept both possibilities. Anything that cannot be proven by science must be taken on faith. What one man believes to be absolute truth may be absolute untruth to another man. Truth is relative.
Here is the famous example which proves this principle: There is a cat in a sealed box. There is absolutely no way of determining whether the cat is alive or dead. Which is it? If you have no way of proving either possibility how can you deny one and accept another except on faith?
Wow!
The FARCE is strong with this one.
BTW, in the Schroedinger's Cat hypothesis, you forgot key components (the vial of poisonous gas and the decaying radioactive material and the fact the cat is both alive and dead until the box lid is removed. Then, the act of observation determines the outcome.)
How are these "key components"? In both versions of the story (the original and my simplified version) the KEY component is you have no way of determining the truth without observation. The contents of the box are irrelevant. One could state there is a King Cobra in the box with the cat and you would still have no way of determining the truth without being able to observe its contents. So, what does it matter what's in the box with the cat?
Until man can see G-d with his own eyes man has no way of determining G-d's "existance". Neither can man disprove G-d's "existance".
Science is nothing more than observation and logical conclusions based on said observations. Oh, and science has never been wrong before either, science is infallible - just like man
LMAO! "typical" "typical" "typical" is this your favorite word? I find your condescension and mockery of believers in G-d to be "typical" of G-dless men.
Secondly, how could you POSSIBLY know how I came upon my "religious" beliefs or even what they are? All you know of me is what I've posted in this thread. Your conclusions are entirely without base, and completely wrong! I was a "Christian" until about the age of 12, believing without questioning. Then I lost my faith and did not believe in G-d until earlier this year. For 9 years I had absolutely no faith in the L-rd. I didn't even believe He existed. I had Christian friends who I mocked for their beliefs and tried to prove to them that G-d didn't exist all the time.
In February '03 I had a series of "religious experiences" or "awakenings" which have led me to my current beliefs, which you have no idea what they are. I went from denying G-d's existance to believing in Him with my entire soul. You just lost your bet. There's a reason why the Bible says "don't bet"
halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
- 25,696
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Originally posted by: conjur
Bingo!
You just hit upon a BIG problem I have with the Christian faith (Well, Islam, too). The ol' "It's my way or the highway -[to hell]" mentality.
Utter arrogance.
My God is better than your God because I said so and if you don't believe in MY God, you're going to what MY religion calls hell!
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -- Stephen F. Roberts
Yup,
i dont consider myself athetist, im somewhere around agnostic at this point (due to the environment i grew up at, ideally i'd like to stay neutral w/o dismissing anything)
On the same note,
i could have one muslim, one hindu, one christian, one buddhist etc and all of them will know, as much as you do, that their belief is right and the other ones are wrong. Plus your denomination doesn't make any difference on the final outcome, if you parents were hindu, rather than christian, chances are you would end up hindu. You don't really have a choice in the matter, even though you think you 'picked' christanity
There are way too many rolling-eyes-smileys in this thread. I hate those things.
My 2 cents:
If the guy wants to sing and act like a jackass in public, let him. Just gradually stop hanging out with him if it's so annoying. The whole religion thing is pretty unimportant in the dilemma -- I'd be uncomfortable if a friend of mine started spontaneously singing loudly in a restaurant regardless of what the song was about.
My 2 cents:
If the guy wants to sing and act like a jackass in public, let him. Just gradually stop hanging out with him if it's so annoying. The whole religion thing is pretty unimportant in the dilemma -- I'd be uncomfortable if a friend of mine started spontaneously singing loudly in a restaurant regardless of what the song was about.
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
LMAO! "typical" "typical" "typical" is this your favorite word? I find your condescension and mockery of believers in G-d to be "typical" of G-dless men.
Secondly, how could you POSSIBLY know how I came upon my "religious" beliefs or even what they are? All you know of me is what I've posted in this thread. Your conclusions are entirely without base, and completely wrong! I was a "Christian" until about the age of 12, believing without questioning. Then I lost my faith and did not believe in G-d until earlier this year. For 9 years I had absolutely no faith in the L-rd. I didn't even believe He existed. I had Christian friends who I mocked for their beliefs and tried to prove to them that G-d didn't exist all the time.
In February '03 I had a series of "religious experiences" or "awakenings" which have led me to my current beliefs, which you have no idea what they are. I went from denying G-d's existance to believing in Him with my entire soul. You just lost your bet. There's a reason why the Bible says "don't bet"
Ok...so you *did* witness some miracles...ok...gotcha...at least that somewhat answers my question as to what sort of basis you have to even make a supposition that God exists. But, I'd again be willing to bet that your "religious experiences" could easily be explained away.
And, I am not mocking anyone here. Simply calling out how ridiculous and hypocritical Christians truly are when they go about judging people based on their beliefs when Christ tells them not to judge anyone.
And, btw, I did bet today...quite well (10-3 against the spread in the NFL today! :beer:!)
- Jan 16, 2001
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There you go AGAIN. "which were given free will by God...." by you proclaiming that God is the top level or "root" if you will, you therefore nullify all arguments from the other side.
You are just one of those "bible beaters" that shoot down every other line of thinking b/c it doesn't say so in the bible. "God didn't say this, god didn't say that" whatever, man.
Man thinks for himself b/c he's an intelligent beings. So do Dolphins and monkeys. Not b/c God made them that way.
heh heh
How do you know which God to believe in? There are plenty to choose from, and if you pick the wrong one, you could be in big trouble (e.g. what if you choose Jesus, but get to heaven only to come face-to-trunk with Ganesh?). This is known as the "Avoiding the wrong Hell problem".
How do you know which God to believe in? There are plenty to choose from, and if you pick the wrong one, you could be in big trouble (e.g. what if you choose Jesus, but get to heaven only to come face-to-trunk with Ganesh?). This is known as the "Avoiding the wrong Hell problem".
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
LMAO! "typical" "typical" "typical" is this your favorite word? I find your condescension and mockery of believers in G-d to be "typical" of G-dless men.
Secondly, how could you POSSIBLY know how I came upon my "religious" beliefs or even what they are? All you know of me is what I've posted in this thread. Your conclusions are entirely without base, and completely wrong! I was a "Christian" until about the age of 12, believing without questioning. Then I lost my faith and did not believe in G-d until earlier this year. For 9 years I had absolutely no faith in the L-rd. I didn't even believe He existed. I had Christian friends who I mocked for their beliefs and tried to prove to them that G-d didn't exist all the time.
In February '03 I had a series of "religious experiences" or "awakenings" which have led me to my current beliefs, which you have no idea what they are. I went from denying G-d's existance to believing in Him with my entire soul. You just lost your bet. There's a reason why the Bible says "don't bet"
Ok...so you *did* witness some miracles...ok...gotcha...at least that somewhat answers my question as to what sort of basis you have to even make a supposition that God exists. But, I'd again be willing to bet that your "religious experiences" could easily be explained away.
And, I am not mocking anyone here. Simply calling out how ridiculous and hypocritical Christians truly are when they go about judging people based on their beliefs when Christ tells them not to judge anyone.
And, btw, I did bet today...quite well (10-3 against the spread in the NFL today! :beer:!)
Once again: one man's truth is another man's untruth. I'm not going to explain the experiences I've been going through every single day for the last 7 months, nor their meaning to me. I believe that if you are ready for it, your guardian angel will show you the truth someday as well.
I wish you good luck on your journey, and no ill will. I do not begrudge you your beliefs. As I've stated several times already in this thread: every man is entitled to believe whatever he wishes. That is the beauty of free will. I just happen to believe that my free will is a gift from G-d and I am thankful for it (not to imply that you're not thankful for your free will).
I'm gonna watch some anime and then go to bed. I've got to get up early for a flight tomorrow morning so I can't spend all night on ATOT
g'night all
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Once again: one man's truth is another man's untruth. I'm not going to explain the experiences I've been going through every single day for the last 7 months, nor their meaning to me. I believe that if you are ready for it, your guardian angel will show you the truth someday as well.
I wish you good luck on your journey, and no ill will. I do not begrudge you your beliefs. As I've stated several times already in this thread: every man is entitled to believe whatever he wishes. That is the beauty of free will. I just happen to believe that my free will is a gift from G-d and I am thankful for it (not to imply that you're not thankful for your free will).
I'm gonna watch some anime and then go to bed. I've got to get up early for a flight tomorrow morning so I can't spend all night on ATOT
g'night all
Bah...it's early yet...well...post from the plane then
Have a safe flight.
... make him feel as uncomfortable as he makes you feel
Grow out a beard, wear traditional Islamic clothing, and recite passages from the Koran.
and about the existence of Gd, you can only disprove the existence of Gd as much as you can prove the existance of Gd.
Grow out a beard, wear traditional Islamic clothing, and recite passages from the Koran.
and about the existence of Gd, you can only disprove the existence of Gd as much as you can prove the existance of Gd.
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