Invasion repelled.

[realibrad]

Just a rough start but...

1) End the drug war, increase economic and security aid to Mexico/Central America, and use diplomatic help and pressure to get local governments to stabilize their situations. Stamp out the cartels once we've made them broke.

2) Institute a broad vetted guest worker program for Mexicans/Central Americans/Haitians. All participants will be entitled to full US legal and labor protections as well as pay taxes at applicable rates. People from this pool who marry Americans should be able to access expedited permanent residency and eventually citizenship.

3) One time blanket amnesty for everybody already here and who can prove they've resided for x number of years (open to debate on the number). There is simply no other way to resolve the existence of a huge underclass without bringing everybody into the system. DACA eligible persons can apply for citizenship. Adult arrivals get non-revokable permanent residency with all commensurate legal protections.

4) Mandatory employment eligibility screening. If people/companies try to circumvent or employ illegally then they go to jail, not pay fines. Especially for corporate officers who are looking the other way.

5) Entirely restructure the US visa system to prevent overstays and track people who come.

For 2, why allow people to be expedited because of the country they come from?

How do you do 3? If you announce a date, you are going to get a flood of people coming over. If its a window to register, how do people prove they were here and did not come in after the announcement?

How do you support your argument for 4? People drop out of work regularly. Are you going to deport someone because a business shut down? What sort of window are you thinking?

5 while doable is going to be very expensive. Not sure what you mean as a solution here.

 

[brycejones]

Thread title is factually untrue. Op should stop lying.

 

[Indus]

Thread title is factually untrue. Op should stop lying.

Report to the mods. They're quick to correct it.

 

[K1052]

For 2, why allow people to be expedited because of the country they come from?

Practicality. Guest workers would be more likely to become involved/have children/get married while here. It's going to happen.

How do you do 3? If you announce a date, you are going to get a flood of people coming over. If its a window to register, how do people prove they were here and did not come in after the announcement?

Make the window short, even just a couple weeks would probably do it as long as the protections were ironclad. Millions of people who would register could pretty easily corroborate their claim. The remainder would need to be investigated and adjudicated.

How do you support your argument for 4? People drop out of work regularly. Are you going to deport someone because a business shut down? What sort of window are you thinking?

No, this is for employers who try to utilize illegal labor after the amnesty and implementation of the guest worker program. Nail them to the wall.

5 while doable is going to be very expensive. Not sure what you mean as a solution here

Lots of other countries operate far more sophisticated entry systems than we do that requite a lot more info before they let you in the country. This should actually be the easiest part of all this.

 

[fskimospy]

Really close call on that invasion, I was worried that those women and small children were going to overrun the US for a minute.

 

[realibrad]

Practicality. Guest workers would be more likely to become involved/have children/get married while here. It's going to happen.

Guest workers yes, so, why would you need to advantage people from some countries over others? Why not just extend that to guest workers regardless of the country they come from?

Make the window short, even just a couple weeks would probably do it as long as the protections were ironclad. Millions of people who would register could pretty easily corroborate their claim. The remainder would need to be investigated and adjudicated.

You are going to see a flood of people try to get in. Crime at the border will spike as people try to come in before the deadline. We have no way of telling who came in before and not during that window. Horrible incentive.

No, this is for employers who try to utilize illegal labor after the amnesty and implementation of the guest worker program. Nail them to the wall.

When you say "Mandatory employment eligibility screening" are you saying every job in the US now must verify everyone they hire?

Lots of other countries operate far more sophisticated entry systems than we do that requite a lot more info before they let you in the country. This should actually be the easiest part of all this.

This is sophistry at best. All you said was make it better.

 

[realibrad]

Really close call on that invasion, I was worried that those women and small children were going to overrun the US for a minute.

Women and small children are used to do illegal things. Letting in people unscreened seems dumb. Not an invasion, but, the implication of your statement is that women and small children are not a threat.

 

[Amused]

Oh the irony. North America is filled with European immigrants who came here uninvited, as refugees by the ship loads. They proudly flew Irish, Italian, French, German and other flags.

They showed up at Ellis Island "illegally" with no visa by the tens of millions. And we housed and fed them as we processed their refugee status. Most never learned English fluently. It was only the second generation that was fluent in English.

And here you are. Complaining about others doing EXACT SAME FUCKING thing most of our, YOUR, ancestors did. Even calling it an "invasion." Yeah, that's right. Tens of millions of uninvited Europeans showing up by the shiploads of five thousand or more at a time wasn't an "invasion" yet a few thousand central Americans is.

And the right-wing white nationalist media has shown them flying the flags of their home countries as if that is somehow "evil" or bad.

To this day, the descendants of the European migrations fly Italian, French, German and other flags. They still eat their native foods and celebrate their native culture.

That's irony right there.

Tell me, what's the difference now? Is it because they're brown?

I think we all know what the problem really is here. We wouldn't be having this discussion if this were a shipload of Norwegians.

The hilarious part is this style of racist fear mongering is nothing new:

And this is from a time when the Irish were considered "non-white."

 

[K1052]

Guest workers yes, so, why would you need to advantage people from some countries over others? Why not just extend that to guest workers regardless of the country they come from?

Because I decided America owes these people a solid.

You are going to see a flood of people try to get in. Crime at the border will spike as people try to come in before the deadline. We have no way of telling who came in before and not during that window. Horrible incentive.

Empty scaremongering.

When you say "Mandatory employment eligibility screening" are you saying every job in the US now must verify everyone they hire?

Yep.

This is sophistry at best. All you said was make it better

Have you ever been to a country with visa application requirements? Or one that has biometric scanning and security at the border?

 

[K1052]

To this day, the descendants of the European migrations fly Italian, French, German and other flags. They still eat their native foods and celebrate their native culture.

Honestly I'm still waiting for my taco truck on every corner.

Like really, I need more easily accessible delicious tacos.

 

[theeedude]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexic...nts-as-trump-threatens-to-close-entire-border

We need good immigration policy and a secure border. Will the Democratic congress fix this?

One amygdala hijack to another is no way to go through life.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not sure if people outside the border zone realize it, but slowing or closing the San Ysidro point of entry also has a massive impact in the Tijuana/San Diego area. My sister lives in this area. The wife and I were there for a visit recently. This is one of the world's busiest land border crossing, and thousands of those who make the trip across the border every day do so for work. It's not just asylum seekers and vacationers.

There's a lot of economic activity relying on that border crossing. When I made a trip to the airport a few weeks back, my Uber driver was a US citizen who lives in Tijuana, but comes across the border to drive. There's a tamale seller in her neighborhood who lives in Tijuana. That's just two of the thousands of examples of people who need the crossing to be open just to make a living.

Fuck those people! Fuck their kids & their little dogs, too! Fuck millions of others even harder! Because Reasons!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

To this day, the descendants of the European migrations fly Italian, French, German and other flags. They still eat their native foods and celebrate their native culture.

Yeah I mean, I hear french, german, etc... on my radio stations all of the time. I also see their flags everywhere. I also see them in line at the grocery store demanding that they have an employee that speaks their language.

Oh wait. I don't.

Honestly I'm still waiting for my taco truck on every corner.

Like really, I need more easily accessible delicious tacos.

Completely overrated. Especially tamales... worst food evar that is literally made of lard.

 

[realibrad]

Because I decided America owes these people a solid.

Why those countries and areas and not others?

Empty scaremongering.

How so? People come here because they think it will benefit their lives. They know there is a risk. If you then know that you have reduced risk, you are going to see the equation for many change. That will cause an incentive. You think that people will not have an incentive to come over more so than without the announcement?

Yep.

That is going to be a massively expensive system. This would be akin to requiring everyone on snap to do drug tests because a very small % do drugs. Its only going to hurt the taxpayers.

Have you ever been to a country with visa application requirements? Or one that has biometric scanning and security at the border?

Mexico, Costa Rica, England, France. Those are all the ones I have been to on vacation. I don't remember biometric scanning at those, but I did have to provide my passport. No visa application.[/QUOTE]

 

[realibrad]

Completely overrated. Especially tamales... worst food ever that is literally made of lard.

You shut your mouth. Real Mexican food is amazing. Sure it can give you the shits that would launch you into orbit, but, its amazing food. Goat tacos are... love.

 

[fskimospy]

Women and small children are used to do illegal things. Letting in people unscreened seems dumb. Not an invasion, but, the implication of your statement is that women and small children are not a threat.

No one is letting people in unscreened.

Regardless, the idea that these individuals represent some meaningful threat to America is laughable.

 

[K1052]

Completely overrated. Especially tamales... worst food evar that is literally made of lard.

I had some lamb tacos last week that were the closest thing to a religious experience I've ever enjoyed.

This aggression will not stand.

 

[K1052]

Why those countries and areas and not others?

They are connected to us on a walkable landmass and we've historically abused the shit out of them.

How so? People come here because they think it will benefit their lives. They know there is a risk. If you then know that you have reduced risk, you are going to see the equation for many change. That will cause an incentive. You think that people will not have an incentive to come over more so than without the announcement?

As I stated the vast majority of people could corroborate their residency. The rest would get investigated and a decision rendered. Since we'd be implementing a guest worker program ideally before this the incentives would be a lot less to even try.

Mexico, Costa Rica, England, France. Those are all the ones I have been to on vacation. I don't remember biometric scanning at those, but I did have to provide my passport. No visa application.

Try Australia and New Zealand. Most modern passports include biometric data now also.

 

[realibrad]

No one is letting people in unscreened.

Regardless, the idea that these individuals represent some meaningful threat to America is laughable.

Well, sure in a way that's right. A single criminal almost never represents a meaningful threat to America. That is not the bar for action though. Every person that wants to come into the US should be vetted. I get that some trolls want to frame this as "illegals are horrible so keep them out", but, we should keep out people until they are processed. Women and children are used in crime and you should try to stop and or prevent crime. So when women and children rushed the border, they should have been stopped no?

 

[Amused]

Yeah I mean, I hear french, german, etc... on my radio stations all of the time. I also see their flags everywhere. I also see them in line at the grocery store demanding that they have an employee that speaks their language.

Oh wait. I don't.

Because you never lived in the 1880s to the 1940s. That was the time of the mass European migrations. There were vast Italian, German, Irish, Norwegian, Chinese etc slums in virtually every major city where the majority did not speak much if any English.

Virtually every major city still has a Chinatown from that period.

And today, we have Italian, German, Chinese and French restaurants (and Irish pubs) in every city. Yet they are fully assimilated Americans now.

But they were NOT then. The first generation never is.

Your ignorance of American history is astounding. And sad.

The irony is, I bet this is exactly how at least one of your ancestors came here.

 

[realibrad]

They are connected to us on a walkable landmass and we've historically abused the shit out of them.

So its the Palin defense. If you believe that those countries have been abused by the US, then logically you would want to offer the same if not more benefits to people more abused by the US. You don't, so it must because they are close, or to say it another way "I can see them".

As I stated the vast majority of people could corroborate their residency. The rest would get investigated and a decision rendered. Since we'd be implementing a guest worker program ideally before this the incentives would be a lot less to even try.

So, you expect people to come forward and validate the claims? Or would you expect people to go out and validate the claims? Not only does that sound impossible, but expensive.

Try Australia and New Zealand. Most modern passports include biometric data now also.

Great, that only tracks people as they come in. How to you deal with people that overstay, which is a huge chunk of how people get here?

 

[fskimospy]

Well, sure in a way that's right. A single criminal almost never represents a meaningful threat to America. That is not the bar for action though. Every person that wants to come into the US should be vetted. I get that some trolls want to frame this as "illegals are horrible so keep them out", but, we should keep out people until they are processed. Women and children are used in crime and you should try to stop and or prevent crime. So when women and children rushed the border, they should have been stopped no?

Of course they should be stopped, although after being stopped the US should stop its own lawless behavior in regards to processing their refugee status. We can't keep acting illegally like this.

As to the idea that tear gassing them was necessary to repel this assault well...I know people who work at San Ysidro, in CBP no less. The idea that those women and children were going to overrun the border crossing and escape into America is fucking hilarious. It was unnecessary and everyone knows it.

 

[Amused]

More from that period.

It's hilarious how the descendants of these people depicted as "invaders" are now calling new immigrants "invaders."

Look how stupid and ignorant you are. Just look at yourself. People like you were on the wrong side of history then, and you are now as well.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeah I mean, I hear french, german, etc... on my radio stations all of the time. I also see their flags everywhere. I also see them in line at the grocery store demanding that they have an employee that speaks their language.

Demand? Really?

 

[fskimospy]

Yeah I mean, I hear french, german, etc... on my radio stations all of the time. I also see their flags everywhere. I also see them in line at the grocery store demanding that they have an employee that speaks their language.

Oh wait. I don't.

Completely overrated. Especially tamales... worst food evar that is literally made of lard.

Before WW1 German was the second most spoken language in the US after English and both pride in German ancestry as well as significant areas where German was the primary method of communication was common.