Invasion repelled.

[BoomerD]

Why do these people think they have the right to enter our country? “Refugee” status aside, the USA has every right...and the responsibility to its citizens, to carefully choose who it lets in.
What do these people bring to the USA that will be beneficial?

Immigration is good...but the immigrants should be carefully vetted and allowed in, ONLY if they’re good people who will improvemthe country as a whole, not uneducated, unskilled people who will demand the citizens support them via welfare and other social service programs.

 

[VRAMdemon]

How many personnel, including troops, did Trump send to the border? Imagine what we could have accomplished if he'd sent the same number of people down there to process asylum claims, and to separate criminals, gang members and terrorists (if any) from those truly seeking safety and security.

The real issue, is that rather than working with Mexico and Latin American countries to perhaps find a more constructive and non-dramatic way to resolve an international humanitarian crisis, Trump has deliberately sought to maximize the political utility of the situation, and in so doing, he is potentially making a manageable humanitarian situation into a full-blown political crisis. The man just incapable of showing real fucking leadership.

This has been the Trump strategy all along. Close or otherwise obstruct the normal point of application (which I believe is required to be there by international law), then call people animals and use force when they try to enter through another point.

 

[realibrad]

Why do these people think they have the right to enter our country? “Refugee” status aside, the USA has every right...and the responsibility to its citizens, to carefully choose who it lets in.
What do these people bring to the USA that will be beneficial?

Immigration is good...but the immigrants should be carefully vetted and allowed in, ONLY if they’re good people who will improve the country as a whole, not uneducated, unskilled people who will demand the citizens support them via welfare and other social service programs.

The Left generally sees it as a humanitarian issue. You have people running from crime, poverty, corruption ect. They are just trying to save themselves and their families.

The Right generally sees this as economic migrants wanting to get the benefits of the US by forcing their way in.

Its true that most if not all are coming from places where their lives were far worse off than what they would be in the US. Its also not fully about them saving themselves as they could have done that in another country along the way. They are seeking the US because it offers the most opportunity. The US cannot simply let everyone in so it tries to push people through a system that is generally accepted as broken.

The migrants are people, and as such most are probably good people, but, some are not. For the same reason you would not allow a stranger access to your home, we should not give it to migrant strangers. We also should not have a broken system that helps nobody. Migrants are good for the country, and anything that keeps out people that want to work is stupid and immoral.

This is a case of both sides (gasp) making things so politically toxic that people feel the need to take a side. Trump is an idiot, not all migrants are good people. Nuance is the enemy of the polarized.

 

[Indus]

Except the right loves cheap labor. You think its coincidence they pay the cheapest amount they can, instead of insisting everything be made in the USA with American workers?

Their whole viewpoint is nothing but a charade. Like this.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The Left generally sees it as a humanitarian issue. You have people running from crime, poverty, corruption ect. They are just trying to save themselves and their families.

The Right generally sees this as economic migrants wanting to get the benefits of the US by forcing their way in.

The problem is that with programs like "catch and release" the Right has a point as far as poor border management is concerned. The Left does in that there is a humanitarian need but not everyone should be allowed in. So the result so far is to effectively pretend the sky is falling or a porous border and everyone points to everyone else but makes this into a political football to be kicked against their opponent.

 

[K1052]

Immigration is good...but the immigrants should be carefully vetted and allowed in, ONLY if they’re good people who will improvemthe country as a whole, not uneducated, unskilled people who will demand the citizens support them via welfare and other social service programs.

By this standard most of the US shouldn't be here. Few peoples ancestors came here because they had lots of skills, were educated, and their prospects were good back home. Quite the opposite.

The idea that immigrants are sucking down welfare and taking something away form natural born Americans is a con job put on by conservatives who want you to think that way. These are the people who would stop all immigration, legal and otherwise, if they could in the name of preserving white dominance over the US. This is not an exaggeration of what motivates people like Sessions, Cotton, or more importantly Stephen Miller.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

By this standard most of the US shouldn't be here. Few peoples ancestors came here because they had lots of skills, were educated, and their prospects were good back home. Quite the opposite.

The idea that immigrants are sucking down welfare and taking something away form natural born Americans is a con job put on by conservatives who want you to think that way. These are the people who would stop all immigration, legal and otherwise, if they could in the name of preserving white dominance over the US. This is not an exaggeration of what motivates people like Sessions, Cotton, or more importantly Stephen Miller.

OK let's drop the "them". What in your opinion should immigration look like, open borders? Token screening and releasing? Once you have identified a goal and without referring to politics but solutions, what should be done to arrive, meaning what steps and again no Left, no Trump, none of that. Consider it a job and you have been employed to find a solution.

 

[cytg111]

OK let's drop the "them". What in your opinion should immigration look like, open borders? Token screening and releasing? Once you have identified a goal and without referring to politics but solutions, what should be done to arrive, meaning what steps and again no Left, no Trump, none of that. Consider it a job and you have been employed to find a solution.

Zones.
Safe zones.
In a layered/tiered construction you set up people in camps in mini societies. To advance to the next zone, closer to the actual country, there be tests, education, participation etc.. We all know that the human genome is capable of extraordinary things, what you want to do is to prime it for optimal odds of success.
In essence we want to deploy these zones not only at our own borders(EU, US) but in the hot zones where these people are fleeing from in the first place.
First things first.

 

[fskimospy]

Just out of curiosity, what policies do the Dems have that the GOP would shoot down?

There was a bipartisan immigration agreement in the senate a few years back that House Republicans shot down.

 

[Commodus]

Just out of curiosity, what policies do the Dems have that the GOP would shoot down?

Well, certainly a lot of what Obama pursued in his time, like opening legal paths to citizenship. You know they'd be dead-set against abolishing ICE like Ocasio-Cortez wants, even if she doesn't necessarily represent the majority of the Democratic party.

I don't even know that it's so much about opposing specific Democrat measures as it is taking the approach the Republican party has had since 2008: rather than craft policy based on evidence-based strategies, they've simply opposed whatever the Democrats were doing.

 

[fskimospy]

OK let's drop the "them". What in your opinion should immigration look like, open borders? Token screening and releasing? Once you have identified a goal and without referring to politics but solutions, what should be done to arrive, meaning what steps and again no Left, no Trump, none of that. Consider it a job and you have been employed to find a solution.

Create a massive guest worker program that allows immigrants to work in the US more easily.

The Left generally sees it as a humanitarian issue. You have people running from crime, poverty, corruption ect. They are just trying to save themselves and their families.

The Right generally sees this as economic migrants wanting to get the benefits of the US by forcing their way in.

Its true that most if not all are coming from places where their lives were far worse off than what they would be in the US. Its also not fully about them saving themselves as they could have done that in another country along the way. They are seeking the US because it offers the most opportunity. The US cannot simply let everyone in so it tries to push people through a system that is generally accepted as broken.

The migrants are people, and as such most are probably good people, but, some are not. For the same reason you would not allow a stranger access to your home, we should not give it to migrant strangers. We also should not have a broken system that helps nobody. Migrants are good for the country, and anything that keeps out people that want to work is stupid and immoral.

This is a case of both sides (gasp) making things so politically toxic that people feel the need to take a side. Trump is an idiot, not all migrants are good people. Nuance is the enemy of the polarized.

Nope. We had compromise immigration pass the senate by a wide margin. Republicans in the House torpedoed it.

Yet again one side. Not both sides.

 

[realibrad]

The problem is that with programs like "catch and release" the Right has a point as far as poor border management is concerned. The Left does in that there is a humanitarian need but not everyone should be allowed in. So the result so far is to effectively pretend the sky is falling or a porous border and everyone points to everyone else but makes this into a political football to be kicked against their opponent.

Agreed. There is much more complexity as to what is going on for sure. We should have managed borders given how things are, but, we should not have arbitrary and immoral limitations that cause waste. Waste being people that could be here, and economic growth.

Once things become so political, there can be no compromise. The Right is often the side that escalates things, but, there comes a point when neither side wants to work on anything.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Why did they need to use tear gas? I thought they were all peaceful.

I'm sure it was a misunderstanding - they just wanted to come up and shake the hands of the people guarding the border. Amirite?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Create a massive guest worker program that allows immigrants to work in the US more easily.

I COMPLETELY agree. Props to my spouse for coming up with this - she is an immigrant herself.

1. Anyone who wants to come in illegally can do so by registering immediately. If you don't register you're kicked out. Period. There is no fault in registering.
2. No citizenship will ever be granted by default for anyone that crosses illegally. Anyone and everyone must go to the back of the line and apply with all the people who didn't cross illegally.
3. You will be permitted to stay and work - no need for a trial or wasted court proceedings. However, that comes with the caveat of having to pay a higher tax rate to pay for the program and as a punishment for not immigrating by legal means. Don't like it? Leave and apply to immigrate legally.

 

[realibrad]

Create a massive guest worker program that allows immigrants to work in the US more easily.


Nope. We had compromise immigration pass the senate by a wide margin. Republicans in the House torpedoed it.

Yet again one side. Not both sides.

Both sides for the migrant group that has been in the news for sure. If you want to talk about the side that has by far held back almost all immigration reform, then sure its the Republicans. In terms of the migrant issue that is currently in the news, its both sides politicizing.

 

[realibrad]

I COMPLETELY agree. Props to my spouse for coming up with this - she is an immigrant herself.

1. Anyone who wants to come in illegally can do so by registering immediately. If you don't register you're kicked out. Period. There is no fault in registering.
2. No citizenship will ever be granted by default for anyone that crosses illegally. Anyone and everyone must go to the back of the line and apply with all the people who didn't cross illegally.
3. You will be permitted to stay and work - no need for a trial or wasted court proceedings. However, that comes with the caveat of having to pay a higher tax rate to pay for the program and as a punishment for not immigrating by legal means. Don't like it? Leave and apply to immigrate legally.

3 is dumb. As for 1 and 2, why cant we take circumstance as part of the equation? Someone that is fleeing violence has a different set of choices than someone looking for work. I see no reason to punish someone for that type of situation.

 

[ivwshane]

Why do these people think they have the right to enter our country? “Refugee” status aside, the USA has every right...and the responsibility to its citizens, to carefully choose who it lets in.
What do these people bring to the USA that will be beneficial?

Immigration is good...but the immigrants should be carefully vetted and allowed in, ONLY if they’re good people who will improvemthe country as a whole, not uneducated, unskilled people who will demand the citizens support them via welfare and other social service programs.

You mean besides the fact that allowing asylum is both federal and international law?

Your post wreaks of ignorance, like the fact that "good" people can qualify for special treatment and get access while everyone else has to get in line (see melania trump for example).

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

3 is dumb. As for 1 and 2, why cant we take circumstance as part of the equation? Someone that is fleeing violence has a different set of choices than someone looking for work. I see no reason to punish someone for that type of situation.

How is #3 dumb? Immigration costs money - as can clearly be seen today. As far as circumstances - that's the entire point... This takes circumstances out of the equation. Anyone is free to come and go as they please (with a reasonable background check/screening). How is - say - a 5% additional tax that unreasonable for someone that wants to cut corners and skip ahead of everyone else?

There are legitimate reasons, no doubt - however as I pointed out in other threads - asylum isn't crossing multiple borders. It's going to the nearest safe place.... of which Mexico offered the migrant caravan plenty of opportunities along the way. It's not as-if Mexico (and plenty of other South American countries) don't have legitimate cities that are very much livable and workable. I would know - I've been to plenty.

 

[TheVrolok]

Perhaps every cat needs a mouse?

But if you give a mouse a cookie..

 

[realibrad]

How is #3 dumb? Immigration costs money - as can clearly be seen today. As far as circumstances - that's the entire point... This takes circumstances out of the equation. Anyone is free to come and go as they please (with a reasonable background check/screening). How is - say - a 5% additional tax that unreasonable for someone that wants to cut corners and skip ahead of everyone else?

There are legitimate reasons, no doubt - however as I pointed out in other threads - asylum isn't crossing multiple borders. It's going to the nearest safe place.... of which Mexico offered the migrant caravan plenty of opportunities along the way. It's not as-if Mexico (and plenty of other South American countries) don't have legitimate cities that are very much livable and workable. I would know - I've been to plenty.

What if where they are fleeing is Mexico? You cant think of all migrants like the group that came from outside of Mexico?

What about people that get a visa to stay, but then fear going back because of violence?

As for the taxes, yes, its still dumb. If the people are very low income, then they would likely not pay any real taxes anyway. So +5% of 0 is still 0. If its wealthy people, then you are working against the interests of economic growth. The Right for a long time has argued that excessive taxes prohibit economic activity. You sound like you are leading to the argument that you want to punish the individual at the expense of everyone else. Thus your plan does not sound very well thought out.

 

[realibrad]

But if you give a mouse a cookie..

You end up fattening the mouse and giving it health issues that make the mouse easier to kill.

 

[TheVrolok]

You end up fattening the mouse and giving it health issues that make the mouse easier to kill.

Haha. Well played.

 

[K1052]

OK let's drop the "them". What in your opinion should immigration look like, open borders? Token screening and releasing? Once you have identified a goal and without referring to politics but solutions, what should be done to arrive, meaning what steps and again no Left, no Trump, none of that. Consider it a job and you have been employed to find a solution.

Just a rough start but...

1) End the drug war, increase economic and security aid to Mexico/Central America, and use diplomatic help and pressure to get local governments to stabilize their situations. Stamp out the cartels once we've made them broke.

2) Institute a broad vetted guest worker program for Mexicans/Central Americans/Haitians. All participants will be entitled to full US legal and labor protections as well as pay taxes at applicable rates. People from this pool who marry Americans should be able to access expedited permanent residency and eventually citizenship.

3) One time blanket amnesty for everybody already here and who can prove they've resided for x number of years (open to debate on the number). There is simply no other way to resolve the existence of a huge underclass without bringing everybody into the system. DACA eligible persons can apply for citizenship. Adult arrivals get non-revokable permanent residency with all commensurate legal protections.

4) Mandatory employment eligibility screening. If people/companies try to circumvent or employ illegally then they go to jail, not pay fines. Especially for corporate officers who are looking the other way.

5) Entirely restructure the US visa system to prevent overstays and track people who come.

 

[Jhhnn]

..

 

[VRAMdemon]

Not sure if people outside the border zone realize it, but slowing or closing the San Ysidro point of entry also has a massive impact in the Tijuana/San Diego area. My sister lives in this area. The wife and I were there for a visit recently. This is one of the world's busiest land border crossing, and thousands of those who make the trip across the border every day do so for work. It's not just asylum seekers and vacationers.

There's a lot of economic activity relying on that border crossing. When I made a trip to the airport a few weeks back, my Uber driver was a US citizen who lives in Tijuana, but comes across the border to drive. There's a tamale seller in her neighborhood who lives in Tijuana. That's just two of the thousands of examples of people who need the crossing to be open just to make a living.