Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+4+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[Joe NYC]

Your argument is basically a Red Herring. Pushing it to chase exempted items. Concluding that that will nullify the whole tariff situation.

The subject of discussion is what tariffs were paid on semiconductor product.

In real world:
Jan 2025: 0%
Jan 2026: 0&

Money was paid. It was EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY (best Trump impression) If you had a container in port, you paid. Did you not live through March to May 25?

On unrelated goods. Why are you changing subject? It is much simpler and far more cathartic to just admit:

"I was fooled. I trusted people who turned out to be dumb, liars and manipulators"

Then, the next morning, you will wake up a better person, having grown, having learned from your mistakes. Ability to admit to being wrong / misled after new data is presented is really a superpower.

I am sure you didn't watch the Gamers Nexus piece.

Link? I will watch. But you probably already know that he is not a sage of any kind, and his record is all over the place. If this was your life on the line, would you gamble your life on proposition that Steve from Gamers Nexus will not turn out to be full of $hit in one of his videos?

You still gloss over memory. (purposefully?) The whole situation made assembly move from China to Vietnam. This might cause a bit of uncertainty.

Changing subject again, to goods not under discussion.

No the subject is tariffs as a whole. If you pigeon enough I'm sure you can build an argument to poke holes in the situation. Again that does not nullify it.

There are too many voices in your head for me to respond to.

How about we benchmark the tariffs instead and discuss the benchmark:
January 2025: 0%
January 2026: 0%

The following general conjecture. If you disrupt the market, it will cause uncertainty. Not knowing what is about to happen causes panic. I'm sure corporations are hedging their inventory to mitigate either outcome of the Supreme Court's decision on the legality of the tariffs.

As far as semiconductors are concerned, here is my prediction for tariff rates on semis:

Before SC ruling: 0%
After SC ruling: 0%

 

[oak8292]

The subject of discussion is what tariffs were paid on semiconductor product.

In real world:
Jan 2025: 0%
Jan 2026: 0&



On unrelated goods. Why are you changing subject? It is much simpler and far more cathartic to just admit:

"I was fooled. I trusted people who turned out to be dumb, liars and manipulators"

Then, the next morning, you will wake up a better person, having grown, having learned from your mistakes. Ability to admit to being wrong / misled after new data is presented is really a superpower.



Link? I will watch. But you probably already know that he is not a sage of any kind, and his record is all over the place. If this was your life on the line, would you gamble your life on proposition that Steve from Gamers Nexus will not turn out to be full of $hit in one of his videos?



Changing subject again, to goods not under discussion.



There are too many voices in your head for me to respond to.

How about we benchmark the tariffs instead:
January 2025: 0%
January 2026: 0%




As far as semiconductors are concerned, here is my prediction for tariff rates on semis:

Before SC ruling: 0%
After SC ruling: 0%

“U.S. President Donald Trump announced plans Monday night to impose massive tariffs on Taiwan-made chips in an attempt to incentivize companies to relocate production to the United States.”

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/trump-to-impose-25-percent-100-percent-tariffs-on-taiwan-made-chips-impacting-tsmc

Based on comments Trump made and documented by CSPAN. There is a link in the article to the CSPAN video of Trump saying that he would put tariffs on Taiwan. This is not fake news and they aren’t making AI videos.

 

[jpiniero]

“U.S. President Donald Trump announced plans Monday night to impose massive tariffs on Taiwan-made chips in an attempt to incentivize companies to relocate production to the United States.”

That was a year ago. Things have gone back and forth since then.

 

[Joe NYC]

“U.S. President Donald Trump announced plans Monday night to impose massive tariffs on Taiwan-made chips in an attempt to incentivize companies to relocate production to the United States.”

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/trump-to-impose-25-percent-100-percent-tariffs-on-taiwan-made-chips-impacting-tsmc

Based on comments Trump made and documented by CSPAN. There is a link in the article to the CSPAN video of Trump saying that he would put tariffs on Taiwan. This is not fake news and they aren’t making AI videos.

That turned out to be all talk, posturing, attaining better negotiating position in January 2025. Out of the negotiation TSMC is accelerating their Arizona fab construction, making firm commitment to additional facilities, (and more "phases" of the fabs).

And the tariff rate started at 0% and ended at 0%

When all is completed, TSMC may be the biggest producer of semiconductors in the US, surpassing Intel.

I wonder if TSMC will break it out, but it would be interesting to keep in track TSMC US revenue vs. Intel Foundry revenue, over the next 5 years or so.

 

[Schmide]

The subject of discussion is what tariffs were paid on semiconductor product.

In real world:
Jan 2025: 0%
Jan 2026: 0&

What are you usertariffmark ? Real world tariffs.

You made that hole. Lets add it up. existing 301 tariff 2018 50% on n Chinese-origin semiconductors + 10 reciprocal base tariff Feb 4 25 that ran afoul of the law stayed by the court. It was there until it wasn't. So zero is wrong.

On unrelated goods. Why are you changing subject? It is much simpler and far more cathartic to just admit:

The subject is tariffs. You have an obsession with socks and underpants. I won't judge your kink.

"I was fooled. I trusted people who turned out to be dumb, liars and manipulators"

Then, the next morning, you will wake up a better person, having grown, having learned from your mistakes. Ability to admit to being wrong / misled after new data is presented is really a superpower.

Is this self musings? I read the rulings. I'm certainly not learning anything from your biased spew. Seriously is this how you argue? Whiny little characterizations.

Link? I will watch. But you probably already know that he is not a sage of any kind, and his record is all over the place. If this was your life on the line, would you gamble your life on proposition that Steve from Gamers Nexus will not turn out to be full of $hit in one of his videos?

I highly doubt you can make it through the 2:53:23 video.

Changing subject again, to goods not under discussion.

You forgot memory. (see what I did there)

There are too many voices in your head for me to respond to.

How about we benchmark the tariffs instead:
January 2025: 0%
January 2026: 0%

On what? Are you saying no monies were collected on tech in 2025?

As far as semiconductors are concerned, here is my prediction for tariff rates on semis:

Before SC ruling: 0%
After SC ruling: 0%

What a pigeon holed argument. Coo for me.

 

[LightningZ71]

Before the ram price surge there were like $800 laptops with the 5050. Lenovo still has their crappy gaming laptop brand with 5050 for under $1000 (for now)

A month ago, there were multiple "gaming" laptops available with 16GB RAM and the 6GB 3050 for around $500. For 1080p gaming, that still beats most any affordable APU on the market, all of which had no version that was LESS than $200 MORE expensive.

 

[Doug S]

That was a year ago. Things have gone back and forth since then.

Yes but that's the whole point. When you have one man whose opinions change more often than his underwear claiming a clearly unconstitutional unilateral ability to set tariffs on any country for any reason at any time you can't count on what is true today tariff wise to be true tomorrow. You have strong incentive to stuff the channel when there are low/no tariffs on your products, because tomorrow Trump might announce a 50% tariff that affects your products because that country's leader criticized him.

This isn't limited to PCs / consumer electronics. If you import anything that doesn't spoil or quickly depreciate you are going to keep larger inventories inside the US than you might normally want, to mitigate against the risk of a sudden tariff announcement that severely impacts your business. At least if you can afford to front the cost for that added inventory, and have a place to keep it.

 

[Joe NYC]

What are you usertariffmark ? Real world tariffs.

You made that hole. Lets add it up. existing 301 tariff 2018 50% on n Chinese-origin semiconductors + 10 reciprocal base tariff Feb 4 25 that ran afoul of the law stayed by the court. It was there until it wasn't. So zero is wrong.

In other words, no change from Jan 20, 2025 to Jan 2026.

Large basket of semi / electronics subject to exclusion, from countries comprising of 96%+ of US semi imports + China exports subject to exclusion
January 2025: 0%
January 2026: 0%

China (3-4% of US semi imports), not subject to exclusion:
January 1, 2025: 50%
January 1, 2026: 50%

So, you found your red herring. Red herring: a tidbit of information (largely immaterial) with intent to mislead fools.

BTW, the 50% rate as of Jan 1, 2025 was an increase by Biden admin, prior Trump taking office on Jan 20, 2025. it did not take place in 2018. You are factually wrong there.

In other words, no change since Trump took office took place in 2025.

You forgot memory. (see what I did there)

The rest of the world, excluding China - 97% of US memory imports.
Jan 9, 2025 0%
Jan 9, 2026 0%

Memory imports from China (2-3% of US imports)

Jan 1 2024: 25%
Jan 1 2025: 50% (Biden 25% increase)
Jan 1 2026: 50% (no change)

Can you see how deceptive your argument is?

One really has to wonder if you are a victim or a villain, because now you are concocting misleading arguments.

Or is it just looking for the last thread before admitting how foolish it was, on your part, to fall for this deception?

On what? Are you saying no monies were collected on tech in 2025?

The focus of the increase of tariff was outside of semis and high tech. Semiconductors and related products are the most protocetid from new tariffs.

What a pigeon holed argument. Coo for me.

No, my argument is broad, related to semiconductors, and it is you who is trying to weasel out by retreating to narrower and narrower sliver.

 

[Schmide]

In other words, no change from Jan 20, 2025 to Jan 2026.

Large basket of semi / electronics subject to exclusion, from countries comprising of 96%+ of US semi imports + China exports subject to exclusion
January 2025: 0%
January 2026: 0%

China (3-4% of US semi imports), not subject to exclusion:
January 1, 2025: 50%
January 1, 2026: 50%

So, you found your red herring. Red herring: a tidbit of information (largely immaterial) with intent to mislead fools.

BTW, the 50% rate as of Jan 1, 2025 was an increase by Biden admin, prior Trump taking office on Jan 20, 2025. it did not take place in 2018. You are factually wrong there.

In other words, no change since Trump took office took place in 2025.



The rest of the world, excluding China - 97% of US memory imports.
Jan 9, 2025 0%
Jan 9, 2026 0%

Memory imports from China (2-3% of US imports)

Jan 1 2024: 25%
Jan 1 2025: 50% (Biden 25% increase)
Jan 1 2026: 50% (no change)

Can you see how deceptive your argument is?

One really has to wonder if you are a victim or a villain, because now you are concocting misleading arguments.

Or is it just looking for the last thread before admitting how foolish it was, on your part, to fall for this deception?



The focus of the increase of tariff was outside of semis and high tech. Semiconductors and related products are the most protocetid from new tariffs.




No, my argument is broad, related to semiconductors, and it is you who is trying to weasel out by retreating to narrower and narrower sliver.

Ok explain this. On Feb 4 2025 a 10% Reciprocal Base Tariff was imposed. In April 2025 bunch of Temporary Escalation tariffs were added ending at a rate of 125%. In May 2025 a De-escalation and Truce returned it to 10%. This is still above the 50% base that was in place before Feb 4. This additional 10% is in place and frozen till Nov 10 2026.

Are you saying this didn't happen?

Edit Lets get some biased sources you may trust.

The United States, in turn, committed to, among other things, maintain the suspension of heightened reciprocal tariffs on imports of the PRC until 12:01 a.m. eastern standard time on November 10, 2026.

 

[DavidC1]

Honestly to me that sounds like the kind of things enthusiasts clamor about wanting but that would sell 25 units total in the real world. Certainly not something that makes or breaks a handheld APU line's chances of success.

I think the true make or break for PTL as a handheld platform will be its perform at and below 25W. We know PTL is class leading and a big upgrade over Strix Point at 45W but we don't know much about lower TDPs yet. Proper handhelds will be in that range so that's where it needs to perform.

Yea, it goes from 80% to 50%.

The impact will likely be greatest in CPU-bound titles where it needs to push a lot of frames, but this is true for the AMD side as well.

 

[Khato]

I wonder if any of the proper reviews for PTL graphics will include Strix Halo running at comparable power. Anyone aware of existing reviews for Strix Halo graphics which aren't running at 100W+?

The comparison points in notebookcheck's brief CES PTL preview, including external monitor Cyberpunk 2077 power numbers from the full reviews - https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel...in-our-first-gaming-benchmarks.1200743.0.html
- Radeon 8060S: 92.1 fps, 195W
- RTX 5050: 75.2 fps, 129W
- Arc B390: 44.8 fps, 60W (according to PCworld preview, full system)
- Arc 140V: 28.3 fps, 45W
- Radeon 890M: 26.5 fps, 58W

 

[Abwx]

mI wonder if any of the proper reviews for PTL graphics will include Strix Halo running at comparable power. Anyone aware of existing reviews for Strix Halo graphics which aren't running at 100W+?

The comparison points in notebookcheck's brief CES PTL preview, including external monitor Cyberpunk 2077 power numbers from the full reviews - https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel...in-our-first-gaming-benchmarks.1200743.0.html
- Radeon 8060S: 92.1 fps, 195W
- RTX 5050: 75.2 fps, 129W
- Arc B390: 44.8 fps, 60W (according to PCworld preview, full system)
- Arc 140V: 28.3 fps, 45W
- Radeon 890M: 26.5 fps, 58W

HX370 s 890M is limited to 36W sustained in this laptop, dunno from where you pulled those 58W, it s not even mentioned in the short term power of the laptop CPU, the whole device use 55W at the main in Cyberpunk.

Also the HP Z2 CPU is 120W sustained, one more time nowhere there s mention of 195W for the CPU, not even for the short term power, from where did you extract those fake numbers .?.. :

That s the 890M laptop and STH HP Z2 mentioned in NBC comparisons :

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Most-powerful-AMD-14-inch-ThinkPad-with-Ryzen-AI-9-HX-Lenovo-ThinkPad-P14s-Gen-6-AMD-laptop-review.1030845.0.html

https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Z2-Mini-G1a-with-AMD-Strix-Halo-review-Compact-workstation-with-Ryzen-AI-Max-and-Radeon-RX-8060S.1069652.0.html

 

[poke01]

HX370 s 890M is limited to 36W sustained in this laptop, dunno from where you pulled those 58W, it s not even mentioned in the short term power of the laptop CPU, the whole device use 55W at the main in Cyberpunk.

Also the HP Z2 CPU is 120W sustained, one more time nowhere there s mention of 195W for the CPU, not even for the short term power, from where did you extract those fake numbers .?.. :

That s the 890M laptop and STH HP Z2 mentioned in NBC comparisons :

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Most-powerful-AMD-14-inch-ThinkPad-with-Ryzen-AI-9-HX-Lenovo-ThinkPad-P14s-Gen-6-AMD-laptop-review.1030845.0.html

https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Z2-Mini-G1a-with-AMD-Strix-Halo-review-Compact-workstation-with-Ryzen-AI-Max-and-Radeon-RX-8060S.1069652.0.html

He was talking about external power consumption from the wall. Not the SoC set TDP.

No matter how you skew it there is no way Gorgon point or Strix point has a better iGPU than Panther lake.

All that is remaining to check is lower power TDP at 25W and 35W and maybe even 20W in handhelds and very thin laptops.

 

[Abwx]

He was talking about external power consumption from the wall. Not the SoC set TDP.

No matter how you skew it there is no way Gorgon point or Strix point has a better iGPU than Panther lake.

All that is remaining to check is lower power TDP at 25W and 35W and maybe even 20W in handhelds and very thin laptops.

I didnt say that the 890M could be faster, i asked what was the source of the numbers, FI he state the ARC140 full system is 45W, that s not accurate, it start at 60W before gradualy getting to 40-45W, but that s in the game stress test, so it cant be stated as a 45W full system, in the regular game bench it s unlikely that it throttle that much.

 

[poke01]

I didnt say that the 890M could be faster, i asked what was the source of the numbers, FI he state the ARC140 full system is 45W, that s not accurate, it start at 60W before gradualy getting to 40-45W, but that s in the game stress test, so it cant be stated as a 45W full system, in the regular game bench it s unlikely that it throttle that much.

Well if you can get rid your bias you can see that Khato is picking the average system power consumption from the wall for all systems from NBC

 

[Abwx]

Well if you can get rid your bias you can see that Khato is picking the average system power consumption from the wall for all systems from NBC

Granted i thought that he picked some erroneous numbers, that being said that s comparisons of almost two years old chips and one wich is to be released in some time, i wouldnt count Strix Halo in the comparison since that s a specific chip, but otherwise i would be surprised if they can double LNL perf at almost same TDP, the latter use a quite advanced process and 2x the perf will mandate close to 2x the power.

 

[hemedans]

I wonder if any of the proper reviews for PTL graphics will include Strix Halo running at comparable power. Anyone aware of existing reviews for Strix Halo graphics which aren't running at 100W+?

The comparison points in notebookcheck's brief CES PTL preview, including external monitor Cyberpunk 2077 power numbers from the full reviews - https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel...in-our-first-gaming-benchmarks.1200743.0.html
- Radeon 8060S: 92.1 fps, 195W
- RTX 5050: 75.2 fps, 129W
- Arc B390: 44.8 fps, 60W (according to PCworld preview, full system)
- Arc 140V: 28.3 fps, 45W
- Radeon 890M: 26.5 fps, 58W

If you don't mind YouTube check phawx reviews, he test as low as 10W.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Honestly to me that sounds like the kind of things enthusiasts clamor about wanting but that would sell 25 units total in the real world. Certainly not something that makes or breaks a handheld APU line's chances of success.

What things? Asus, Lenovo, Gigabyte, HP and Razer all make eGPU cases already. It's not like an eGPU dock doesn't have broad appeal already, for a bunch of people.

Intel can simply kick it up a notch by using one of their own TB5 controllers on both sides (handheld and dock) to guarantee compliance, and then share some of the marketing and design language. Many would welcome a handheld that plays games adequately on the small screen at 25W but then dock it next to the TV and gets to do PS5 Pro visuals.

 

[511]

What things? Asus, Lenovo, Gigabyte, HP and Razer all make eGPU cases already. It's not like an eGPU dock doesn't have broad appeal already, for a bunch of people.

Intel can simply kick it up a notch by using one of their own TB5 controllers on both sides (handheld and dock) to guarantee compliance, and then share some of the marketing and design language. Many would welcome a handheld that plays games adequately on the small screen at 25W but then dock it next to the TV and gets to do PS5 Pro visuals.

TB5 is coming with Nova and integrated into CPU which would be lot better than the discreet ones

 

[ToTTenTranz]

TB5 is coming with Nova and integrated into CPU which would be lot better than the discreet ones

Yes, and that would be a good vector for upgrade by itself.

 

[511]

Yes, and that would be a good vector for upgrade by itself.

NVL is a huge upgrade for CPU not as huge upgrade for GPU though still a decent one

 

[poke01]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2009997592634245494

some DF testing

 

[Khato]

Granted i thought that he picked some erroneous numbers, that being said that s comparisons of almost two years old chips and one wich is to be released in some time, i wouldnt count Strix Halo in the comparison since that s a specific chip, but otherwise i would be surprised if they can double LNL perf at almost same TDP, the latter use a quite advanced process and 2x the perf will mandate close to 2x the power.

I did specify what the numbers were, and they were picked as the closest option to the full-system power number that was provided by the PCWorld preview. Now it's entirely plausible that PTL will show higher or lower power numbers when subjected to the same process in full notebookcheck review, we're just ballparking at the moment.

As for the comparisons against almost two year old chips... well, that's what happens when the competition phones it in just like Intel used to. AMD's focus has moved on to AI. We'll still get table scraps, but their announcements at CES make it clear how much they care about consumer devices.

 

[Abwx]

I did specify what the numbers were, and they were picked as the closest option to the full-system power number that was provided by the PCWorld preview. Now it's entirely plausible that PTL will show higher or lower power numbers when subjected to the same process in full notebookcheck review, we're just ballparking at the moment.

As for the comparisons against almost two year old chips... well, that's what happens when the competition phones it in just like Intel used to. AMD's focus has moved on to AI. We'll still get table scraps, but their announcements at CES make it clear how much they care about consumer devices.

Yes, but the Intel ARC 390 is not 60W full system but 70W CPU sustained, actualy
70W sustained PL1, 85W PL2 and 212W PL4, Computerbase also did a test, so there s a long shot from 60W full system to say 65W sustained CPU power.

Edit : That s about 2x the TDP of a LNL, so if the GPU is 2x bigger there s basicaly no improvement in perf/watt from N3 to 18A.

Core Ultra 300; Erste Intel Arc B390 Benchmarks

Intel Core Ultra 300 „Panther Lake“ umfasst auch Varianten mit der iGPU Intel Arc B390. Erste Benchmarks bestätigen deren hohe Leistung.

www.computerbase.de

 

[Khato]

If you don't mind YouTube check phawx reviews, he test as low as 10W.

Thanks for the suggestion. While I only saw power scaling numbers on Heaven on his video, checking a few other reviews happened upon this Digital Foundry one is kind enough to have Cyberpunk 2077 at four different power levels.

The numbers look to be processor TDP rather than whole system, so not exactly comparable. As well, they only seem to be providing real-time fps figures, or at least I didn't see a summary with averages over a run? So I'm just capturing one set of numbers below.

Radeon 8060S: 72 fps, 120W TDP
Radeon 8060S: 69 fps, 84.5W TDP
Radeon 8060S: 58 fps, 53.2W TDP
Radeon 8060S: 29 fps, 29.5W TDP

The important aspect here being that running at roughly half the TDP results in about 80% of max performance, somewhat as expected. But that looks to likely be the point where it's operating at vmin already as halving power consumption again cuts performance in half.