Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

Wildcat Lake (WCL) Specs

Intel Wildcat Lake (WCL) is upcoming mobile SoC replacing Raptor Lake-U. WCL consists of 2 tiles: compute tile and PCD tile. It is true single die consists of CPU, GPU and NPU that is fabbed by 18-A process. Last time I checked, PCD tile is fabbed by TSMC N6 process. They are connected through UCIe, not D2D; a first from Intel. Expecting launching in Q1 2026.

		Intel Raptor Lake U	Intel Wildcat Lake 15W?	Intel Lunar Lake		Intel Panther Lake 4+4+4
Launch Date		Q1-2024	Q2-2026	Q3-2024		Q1-2026
Model		Intel 150U	Intel Core 7	Core Ultra 7 268V		Core Ultra 7 365
Dies		2	2	2		3
Node		Intel 7 + ?	Intel 18-A + TSMC N6	TSMC N3B + N6		Intel 18-A + Intel 3 + TSMC N6
CPU		2 P-core + 8 E-cores	2 P-core + 4 LP E-cores	4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores		4 P-core + 4 LP E-cores
Threads		12	6	8		8
Max Clock		5.4 GHz	?	5 GHz		4.8 GHz
L3 Cache		12 MB		12 MB		12 MB
TDP		15 - 55 W	15 W ?	17 - 37 W		25 - 55 W
Memory		128-bit LPDDR5-5200	64-bit LPDDR5	128-bit LPDDR5x-8533		128-bit LPDDR5x-7467
Size		96 GB		32 GB		128 GB
Bandwidth				136 GB/s
GPU		Intel Graphics	Intel Graphics	Arc 140V		Intel Graphics
RT		No	No	YES		YES
EU / Xe		96 EU	2 Xe	8 Xe		4 Xe
Max Clock		1.3 GHz	?	2 GHz		2.5 GHz
NPU		GNA 3.0	18 TOPS	48 TOPS		49 TOPS

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

 

[poke01]

Wow, this is a total skip generation. Mainly because of the underwhelming P core. If that P core got the 30% IPC boost instead then Intel would have been king till 2026.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Wow, this is a total skip generation.

If you are a Raptor Lake user and you prefer stability and lower power, you WILL buy Arrow Lake. Plus, you get Aye Aye as bonus. So I don't see a lot of people skipping this if they can easily afford it. The specint performance is decent I guess. If only AMD had worked a little harder on that...

I do find it funny that ARL is doing its best in CBR24 and POV-RAY. Abwx will have quite a few things to say

 

[igor_kavinski]

If that P core got the 30% IPC boost instead then Intel would have been king till 2026.

If Jim Keller had still been with them, it WOULD have!

 

[Saylick]

Yikes, I think the lower peak clocks and the latency regression vs Raptorlake is what’s holding Arrowlake back in gaming. Basically not worth the upgrade over Raptorlake if gaming is your primary purpose. The 9800X3D will likely claim the gaming crown.

 

[coercitiv]

If you are a Raptor Lake user and you prefer stability and lower power, you WILL buy Arrow Lake.

If you are a Raptor Lake user then lower power is not a priority. People who needed stability above all else have already moved to Alder Lake or Ryzen by now, the rest were waiting for more performance... which is barely there. (the numbers are higher but they won't translate in a meaningful uplift)

Therefore anyone who's already on RPL has very little incentives to upgrade. I expect the prices won't help either.

 

[poke01]

If you are a Raptor Lake user and you prefer stability and lower power, you WILL buy Arrow Lake

True if your on Raptor, you have no choice but to upgrade if you want efficiency and stability for the long term

 

[511]

AVX-512? For the 1-2%. Anyway meh the only good thing is power consumption i guess

 

[poke01]

AVX-512? For the 1-2%. Anyway meh the only good thing is power consumption i guess

Yep thanks to the newer node, glad to see the power consumption come down.

 

[511]

This is true i suppose

 

[adroc_thurston]

If Jim Keller had still been with them, it WOULD have!

Nope

 

[adroc_thurston]

Wait the gaming comparison chart is versus 9950X. Ouchie.

 

[511]

I don't think Jim keller having or not would have made a difference it's the SOC/IMC killing the performance

 

[Jayzen]

I was right. Despite the vitriol and censorship that has been directed my way over the past year, I have been right about everything.

Zen 5 was underwhelming.
Arrow Lake was underwhelming.
Snapdragon X was underwhelming.
M4 looks to be pretty underwhelming too.

 

[511]

The chart is with APO enabled so without APO it's gonna tank hard

 

[coercitiv]

Ouch, I did see APO in there but my brain refused to acknowledge the implications.

 

[MoogleW]

I don't think Jim keller having or not would have made a difference it's the SOC/IMC killing the performance

Would be interesting to compare latencies of Lunarlake, Arrowlake and Meteorlake. If Arrowlake looks like MTL, then....

 

[adroc_thurston]

Something that Intel fixed for Lunarlake

LNL is a relatively marginal main mem lat improvement. It does fix cluster to cluster comms on NOC at least.

 

[tsamolotoff]

Also, consider that the biggest bar in the chart is TW3, which seems to have big issues with dual-ccd Zen5 (maybe due to terribad inter-ccd latency in the release-time agesas)

 

[alcoholbob]

Taking out hyperthreading couldn’t even save Arrow Lake. If the gaming graphs were 14900K HT-Off vs 285K the results would be even worse lmao.

 

[CouncilorIrissa]

Wait there’s more… courtesy of wxnod on Twitter.
Showing a 3% lower result in GB6.3 ST vs. the 9950X.
Looking pretty meh.

Zen5% vs Intel Cope Ultra, the battle of 2024

 

[Kocicak]

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-admits-core-ultra-9-285k-will-be-slower-than-i9-14900k-in-gaming#disqus_thread

Increasing energy efficiency is great, but the performance itself disappointing.

But what if all these performance numbers are for the conservative default power settings??? It could increase considerably with the 250W power setting.

 

[coercitiv]

Zen5% vs Intel Cope Ultra, the battle of 2024

The clash of the side-grades.

 

[Kepler_L2]

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-admits-core-ultra-9-285k-will-be-slower-than-i9-14900k-in-gaming#disqus_thread

Increasing energy efficiency is great, but the performance disappointing.

But what if all these performance numbers are for the conservative default power settings???

Oh please let's not have another month of "wait for new BIOS/power limit/windows update".

 

[AcrosTinus]

The worst ending for Intel has happened, the reviewer mob has forced them to pre nerf their chips. Add to it the fiasco with Raptor Lake and the enforced power limits on a overclocker + unlocked chip and we get this bad ending.... pathetic.

A K unlocked chip that will be reviewed as if it has no overclocking and the "K" is just a marketing artifact. It is sadly over....

If there is some OC potential to exceed the 14900K, how many of these AMD curve optimizer tuning, command line running and windows reinstalling folks will do the same for Intel, the marketing machine has worked, I'm saddened to know that a focused and timed mob can indeed push a company towards the wrong path.

A core i9 should be the most unleashed chip, with the highest power consumption and performance, the lower SKUs are for everything else. It should be a halo product like the RTX4090, no one complains about the power consumption under load, the same will be the case for the 5090.

The only way for Intel to survive now is to embrace the power consumption, I don't care about that on a high performance desktop BUT they also must deliver a multi generational leap in ST and MT performance to warrant that power draw, in essence they need a RTX-X090 class product with performance so high, no serious person will talk about the power draw.

Like this though, I'm just disappointed and will return in maybe 4 years to see if there is any positive movement.

Conclusion: Stagnation since Alder Lake

 

[adroc_thurston]

Also, consider that the biggest bar in the chart is TW3

Not even proper TWW3 mind you, but the sponsored mutator gimmick mode (mirror of madness).