Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Page 280 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
686
574
106
PPT1.jpg
PPT2.jpg
PPT3.jpg



As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E08 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (20A)Arrow Lake (N3B)Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXDesktop OnlyMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4Intel 20ATSMC N3BTSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Q1 2025 ?Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2025 ?Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P6P + 8E ?8P + 16E8P + 32E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB24 MB ?36 MB ??8 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15



Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

INTEL-CORE-100-ULTRA-METEOR-LAKE-OFFCIAL-SLIDE-2.jpg

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

Clockspeed.png
 

Attachments

  • PantherLake.png
    PantherLake.png
    283.5 KB · Views: 23,978
  • LNL.png
    LNL.png
    881.8 KB · Views: 25,450
Last edited:

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
500
890
96
If everybody loves and wants LNL, what do you think happens to ARL-U?

Why even bother having a successor to the cheaper (but not cheaper than RPL-U) mobile die that nobody really wants?

I dunno, to me it makes perfect sense for LNL style designs to cover the entire -U laptop range, excluding cheaper designs.
That's actually what I'm expecting. That LNL replaces the U series. I'm guessing Intel will use LNL sales performance and users/media impression as a way to gauge how they will move forward.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
500
890
96
If that's <=47% ST, that would be a WOW.

<=47% MT compared to MTL-U, hmm ok not bad.

<=47% perf/w? Still good enough I guess.
They're comparing current Intel Core Ultra (MTL) vs a 3 year old PC (So TGL or Cezanne) and claiming 47% improvement on unspecified workloads (ST?MT? AI? GPU? Perf/W? Battery Life? All of them combined on some weird test set?). Don't read much on it tbh.
 

SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
919
618
106
If everybody loves and wants LNL, what do you think happens to ARL-U?

Why even bother having a successor to the cheaper (but not cheaper than RPL-U) mobile die that nobody really wants?

I dunno, to me it makes perfect sense for LNL style designs to cover the entire -U laptop range, excluding cheaper designs.
Agree, Uzzi. If LNL is even a B-, but A for Intel’s mainstream lineup, which is where it seems we’re headed — then to me they might as well “simplify” and just have one low-power optimized (see system cache etc) part succeeding LNL they follow up on for the entire 5-28W range.

Hopefully it does alright and this is what happens
 

SiliconFly

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2023
1,127
576
96
Intel is extremely limited in each node's production quantity. So, Intel has a choice: (A) extreme shortages of processors or (B) processors from multiple different nodes at the same time. They chose route (B) which can work if they are priced correctly.
Makes sense.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
500
890
96
SKU spamming is one of the things Gelsinger wants to stop with the new reorganization and separation of Intel Design Teams and Intel Foundry/External. Because now IDT will need to be much more conscious of their designs to reduce costs.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
500
890
96

"With Lunar Lake, the client division expects to get back leadership across most/all workload categories, with AI performance being the most critical. This product is an important step to stave off competition from
@amd and @Snapdragon. I know that @MJHolthaus is driving the team to build a killer product here!"


It seems Intel has some lofty goals with Lunar Lake. Let's see if they pan out.
 

gdansk

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2011
2,454
3,323
136
Wow, LNL is going to have leadership over Apple's M4 in most/all workload categories. It will make MTL look totally obsolete then. Or maybe Apple is not relevant whenever they don't want them to be.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: lightmanek

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
500
890
96
Wow, LNL is going to have leadership over Apple's M4 in most/all workload categories. It will make MTL look totally obsolete then. Or maybe Apple is not relevant whenever they don't want them to be.
That's very unlikely to happen. But it will indeed make MTL obsolete at LNL intended power range (7 - 28W). Bionic has said LNL 17W > 1.5x MTL 15W MT.
I was thinking the same thing. Probably 47% over MTL's NPU or some other nonsense that matters not.
They're actually comparing MTL with a 3 year old PC and quoting a non-specified 47% uplift.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spursindonesia

poke01

Golden Member
Mar 8, 2022
1,213
1,398
106
Or maybe Apple is not relevant whenever they don't want them to be.
Apple is relevant to the market Intel is targeting with LNL. Tablets, thin and light laptops are Apples forte.

Intel only compares with Apple when Apple is behind. Because right now Apple is ahead of Intel in every metric on mobile.

The last time when Intel compared to Apple was with HX 13th gen CPUs against the M2 Max. Intel had a huge lead in MT and it made slides to market that.

With the M3 Max being better than Intel 14th Gen i9 HX CPUs this time they skipped comparing to the M3 Max.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
500
890
96
Apple is relevant to the market Intel is targeting with LNL. Tablets, thin and light laptops are Apples forte.
Yup. The entire motivation of LNL is basically to get back leadership in perf/W and showcase that Intel can also build an impressive PPC/PPW SoC to be employed on T&L fanless designs. Except that LNL is coming 4 years later than M1, is more expensive to manufacture and is also using a newer node process😂.

Jest aside, I do believe LNL is a good endeavor for Intel. It's basically what they should have aimed since eons for mainstream mobile T&L. Had they continued the Core M/Y series and pushed them to be the main series for 15W and below, Intel wouldn't be known and memed as the company you choose when you don't care about battery life. Nor would have been Apple M1 as impactful. But alas, better later than never.
 

poke01

Golden Member
Mar 8, 2022
1,213
1,398
106
Yup. The entire motivation of LNL is basically to get back leadership in perf/W and showcase that Intel can also build an impressive PPC/PPW SoC to be employed on T&L fanless designs. Except that LNL is coming 4 years later than M1, is more expensive to manufacture and is also using a newer node process😂.

Jest aside, I do believe LNL is a good endeavor for Intel. It's basically what they should have aimed since eons for mainstream mobile T&L. Had they continued the Core M/Y series and pushed them to be the main series for 15W and below, Intel wouldn't be known and memed as the company you choose when you don't care about battery life. Nor would have been Apple M1 as impactful. But alas, better later than never.
Honestly a lot big breakthroughs made a big impact due to Intel being behind or ignorant.

Zen, M1 and rise of ARM in smartphones are just a few. Both Intels design teams and its foundries are at fault.

Truly a mismanaged company before.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
500
890
96
Honestly a lot big breakthroughs made a big impact due to Intel being behind or ignorant.

Zen, M1 and rise of ARM in smartphones are just a few. Both Intels design teams and its foundries are at fault.

Truly a mismanaged company before.
Indeed. Apple cores started to truly approach (and soon surpass) Intel x86 with A9. Everyone, from foundry (TSMC) to design (Apple, AMD, Arm) started to execute and execute non-stop from 2015 onwards. While Intel stalled. Now they pay the price of it: Their P Core design teams still follow the Desktop first approach of "Performance at any price" and Foundry is behind industry best (TSMC). It will take time for them to get their feet on the ground and running.

But the fact Intel is still somewhat competitive is a testament of how solid their foundation was. Just that they need to act as the foundation doesn't turn into mud.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tlh97 and SpudLobby

FlameTail

Platinum Member
Dec 15, 2021
2,930
1,657
106
"With Lunar Lake, the client division expects to get back leadership across most/all workload categories, with AI performance being the most critical. This product is an important step to stave off competition from
@amd and @Snapdragon. I know that @MJHolthaus is driving the team to build a killer product here!"
LOL. Did they actually ping AMD and Snapdragon? :p
 

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,353
2,216
136
That's very unlikely to happen. But it will indeed make MTL obsolete at LNL intended power range (7 - 28W). Bionic has said LNL 17W > 1.5x MTL 15W MT.

They're actually comparing MTL with a 3 year old PC and quoting a non-specified 47% uplift.
Why go 3 year? Why not compare to a Pentium and show us 5000% increase!
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
500
890
96
LOL. Did they actually ping AMD and Snapdragon? :p
It was actually Ryan Shrout (I don't think he's at Intel anymore), but indeed he did.
Which also explains their bloat and addiction to using HP process libraries.
Yup.

Why go 3 year? Why not compare to a Pentium and show us 5000% increase!
They actually compared Xeon 6 (GNR/SRF) to a Xeon Scalable 2nd Gen (Cascade Lake/Skylake Server ++ on 14nm) and claimed 1MW power savings. So you're not that far off hahaha