They're corporate minded people. cannot speak for burger king humperdinkle there but renduchintala is a a death walker among mortals whose soul goal is to destroy companies when he's been appointed a position of power. no one has ever liked him. pat has his heart in it but he's like one of those 80s comedy actors who try to be relevant today like chevy chase wallace shawn or jeff tambour.
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Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread
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igor_kavinski
Lifer
Brian Krzanich
I don't see it myself because mtl is worth more to intel to dedicate resources to for mobile sales than desktop sales channels. old rumours stated mtl was due early this year with a late q3 q4 arrow. that is based on rumors dating back 2-4 years. I never believed it myself. it makes more sense to fight amd with mtl on mobile aka laptop than focus on mobile and desktop. mobile sales are important and amd sucks here. intel can hold the fort down in desktop because at the end of the day they still make sales and can supply odms with raw processors in trays greater than amd can. arrow being late may be down to core changes or adjustments or wanting to run it on a newer process but at the time intel did not have an internal eta.
Intel Meteor Lake CPU's Redwood Cove P-Cores Use Similar Architecture As Golden Cove, New Architecture For E-Cores
Intel 14th Gen Meteor Lake CPUs Redwood Cove P-Cores may utilize the same architecture as Golden Cove chips with a new Atom design.wccftech.com
I think it was a Plan B, in case Arrow Lake got delayed. But then MTL had troubles too and they had to concoct RPL-R in a hurry.
as I said the old pumper humper.
I hope this is only a time-out, not a ban...
pfffft icarus fell to a fatal death because he ignored the lessons daedalus tried to teach him. let's keep focused on the thread's subject and not talk about unimportant matters. as @DrMrLordX said in another thread the new intel vulns are going to help intel get companies and contracts to hop onto the next unaffected intel xeons. blessing in a disguised horror I'd say. I haven't read the full paper but I would venture saying not all regular consumers will be happy about their non xeon processors made slow and will upgrade. it will either drive sales of 13th or 14th or drive people to the competitors products due to intel's design choices which isn't inherently there's but for simples sake let's say it is here.
while these vulns stop on processors now a few years old on the consumer angle but not quite on the xeon/dc lineup, it stands to explore what vulns exist for the latest and future processors for both intel and the competitors. while the scaries are not to be worried about for vulns requiring physical access to the machine there's still plenty of possibilities for an attacker to get in without being near the machine in future vulns that don't have the prefacing of being mildly safe if something require sphysical access.
while these vulns stop on processors now a few years old on the consumer angle but not quite on the xeon/dc lineup, it stands to explore what vulns exist for the latest and future processors for both intel and the competitors. while the scaries are not to be worried about for vulns requiring physical access to the machine there's still plenty of possibilities for an attacker to get in without being near the machine in future vulns that don't have the prefacing of being mildly safe if something require sphysical access.
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1) Unannounced, unreleased product was “leaked” and later “cancelled”?
Or
2) shoddy leakers trying to cover up fake/mistaken leaks?
I tend to believe the more reasonable scenario #2. Even if you believe #1, things like that happen in AMD, Intel, Microsoft, and other companies all the time. It is a normal part of doing business. AMD/Intel has killed more product designs than we will ever know about. The reasons vary from profitability and volume to lack of execution resources, demand, or anything really.
The whole reason we are getting a Raptor Lake refresh is so Intel can stick to a yearly cadence. They are doing that so they can keep pressure on the competition while they get the house in order. It has worked the past couple years, and it will keep working. (Ask AMD how they will respond to Raptor Lake Refresh). OEMs also like having regular access to shiny new things.
dullard
Elite Member
1) Intel itself listing Meteor Lake as 125 W. https://download.intel.com/newsroom/2021/client-computing/Intel-Accelerated-2021-presentation.pdf (See slide 36)
2) Intel Management Engine Software listing MTL-S desktop. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-14th-gen-core-meteor-lake-s-spotted-in-management-engine-update
3) LGA1851 Interposer for Meteor Lake desktop: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-meteor-lake-s-cpu-tool-surfaces-for-desktop-pc-chips
4) The desktop 1851 Meteor Lake socket: https://wccftech.com/intel-meteor-l...-1851-socket-full-socket-v1-details-leak-out/
5) MTL-S desktop is in Linux 6.3: https://wccftech.com/intel-14th-gen-meteor-lake-s-desktop-cpu-support-added-linux-patch/
6) MTL-S desktop is in Linux 6.5 just this summer: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Meteor-Lake-S-Linux-6.5
7) Leaked Intel slides listing MTL-S, although only 65 W and not all the way up to 125 W base power: 8) Intel's own documents listing desktop power supply requirements for meteor lake and for desktop platform controller hubs. Cannot link, they are now behind restricted website walls.
9) Chromium drivers listing MTL-S. https://github.com/intel/dptf/blob/...435925407c0/Common/esif_ccb_cpuid.h#L108-L112
10) Then you have just the general rumors of people speculating that I won't bother to bring up.
None of this forces Intel to launch a desktop Meteor Lake chip. But it would certainly make a nice SFF PC, HTPC, or industrial PC even if it just just an H laptop chip put into a desktop socket.
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SiliconFly
Golden Member
Very thorough and excellent observation. 👍
SiliconFly
Golden Member
Any specific reason for the ban? I was under the impression he' was a good contributor.
can't discuss suspensions or bans in public. them the rules.
Thanks for the list but if memory serves right this isnt' the first time this has happened and no part has come out by either intel or amd or nvidia for that matter.
I missed some posts in last few weeks, so I have no idea about anything specific, but my general impression is that it would be out of character for him, and like you said, he is a good contributor.
SiliconFly
Golden Member
Afaik, the new P-core architecutre in Arrow Lake is just called Lion Cove and nothing else. Royal core sounds more like a cooked up name. Fanboys?
It goes back a few years and that's one massive move for fanboys to keep the charade up. there's a few on here who know more about it and hopefully will chime in with any recent news.
OEMs don't seem to mind using the U parts for AIOs.
dullard
Elite Member
Desktop Meteor Lake might not ever see the light of day. But many signs pointed to it at least being in development for a while. You (and many others in this thread) have repeatedly asked why we think desktop Meteor Lake existed. So, I've kept a list going over the years.
Maybe Intel decided desktop Meteor Lake sucks (it likely is a power hog at higher frequencies if its main goal was to be a laptop chip). Or maybe Raptor Lake refresh was good enough. Or Arrow Lake desktop was good enough. Or there was too much overlap of similar products. Or maybe in their downsizing plans something had to go. Or maybe it will launch as a quiet launch with little to no fanfare. I don't have a clue on the decisions (if any). But, there was enough evidence to convince me that it at least was started as a project.
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Saylick
Diamond Member
What's the latest rumors regarding Lion Cove? If I'm not mistaken, it's not a big architectural shift from Golden Cove. The next big shift isn't until Royal Cove. Idk why, but Twitter leakers call Lion Cove "Lion Cope", seemingly hinting that there's something going on with it.
Well... if you go there.. Cannonlake had desktop models at one point.
thank you very much dullard, very sweet of you to do that. very serious not many will put that type of effort in.
you make some good points. I was thinking a while back that it was canceled not due to power but because of little fanfare and the raptor lake refresh being good against amd. intel can slash their prices and sell in volume if they have to. it gives them more headroom to work on arrow lake than release a new processor and have teams on standby for writing revisionary updates if something doesn't go as planned. the economy being quite bad at the mo is another reason. I don't expect the raptor refresh processors to hold their launch msrp for long and will come down in price compared to 13th. also possibly refining their process or making note tha tmobile will be more important to them because they already hold a large share in desktop but amd's laptops are very good. all good theories and questions.
SiliconFly
Golden Member
Makes sense 👍
SiliconFly
Golden Member
I think LNC is a major shift from GLC. Probably an all-new architecture. Intel is keeping it under tight wraps. There's too much secrecy around ARL. They'll probably start sharing info after MTL release.
you may be onto something here. look at all the names for the arks intel has had. how many of them had animal names? lion cove stands out. lions have historially been treated as great animals and youll find them engraved onto stone, precious metals and wood in fancy places such as palaces and mansions for the normal people. it's a bizare sidestep for intel from their usual run of the mill boring names.
ive not kept it up with the news but there's also panther lake and panther cove, panther lake being a processor series and panther cove being a micro ark.
course there's that rumor from my little itty ditty about something called beast lake which sounds like puerile gibberish. our departed existfifty also mentioned a cougar cove at some point but me trying to remember when would be a feat few have managed. it's all a haze.
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