Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[SiliconFly]

Neither the Athlon in 1999 nor the Athlon 64 few years later ever actually existed...

Indeed 64bit X86 CPUs came from nowhere.

Got it 👍

Thats why AMD was No 1 during the last 4 decades.

 

[SiliconFly]

Most of the world didn't even know what AMD was until 2017 😂

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD is the epitome of efficiency, from top management right down to their core architectures (their GPUs don't count coz that division has repeatedly failed at picking up important lessons from the rest of the company). They rose from the ashes whereas Intel had EVERYTHING, including their own fabs and they squandered their countless benefits down the drain. Now that they are trying to get back on top by spending billions of dollars, we are supposed to be sympathetic to them and root for them? Not happening.

They can have our support by doing the old fashioned thing. You know, working hard and actually showing something for it, rather than just churning out power guzzling rocks that simply compound the problem of global warming. Pat is like, Look Ma! I spent billions and I came up with a product that is just barely competitive with the No.2 x86 player by volume. Now lemme have my sweet apple pie!

 

[ondma]

AMD is the epitome of efficiency, from top management right down to their core architectures (their GPUs don't count coz that division has repeatedly failed at picking up important lessons from the rest of the company). They rose from the ashes whereas Intel had EVERYTHING, including their own fabs and they squandered their countless benefits down the drain. Now that they are trying to get back on top by spending billions of dollars, we are supposed to be sympathetic to them and root for them? Not happening.

They can have our support by doing the old fashioned thing. You know, working hard and actually showing something for it, rather than just churning out power guzzling rocks that simply compound the problem of global warming. Pat is like, Look Ma! I spent billions and I came up with a product that is just barely competitive with the No.2 x86 player by volume. Now lemme have my sweet apple pie!

Well, you if you want to hate on intel, that is your privilege. However, it benefits everyone to have a competitive lineup in order to drive performance forward and tend to keep prices down.

 

[SiliconFly]

AMD is the epitome of efficiency, from top management right down to their core architectures (their GPUs don't count coz that division has repeatedly failed at picking up important lessons from the rest of the company). They rose from the ashes whereas Intel had EVERYTHING, including their own fabs and they squandered their countless benefits down the drain. Now that they are trying to get back on top by spending billions of dollars, we are supposed to be sympathetic to them and root for them? Not happening.

They can have our support by doing the old fashioned thing. You know, working hard and actually showing something for it, rather than just churning out power guzzling rocks that simply compound the problem of global warming. Pat is like, Look Ma! I spent billions and I came up with a product that is just barely competitive with the No.2 x86 player by volume. Now lemme have my sweet apple pie!

Only at the precipice do we evolve!

All thanks to the bean counters who ran Intel to the ground.

 

[SiliconFly]

AMD is the epitome of efficiency, from top management right down to their core architectures (their GPUs don't count coz that division has repeatedly failed at picking up important lessons from the rest of the company). They rose from the ashes whereas Intel had EVERYTHING, including their own fabs and they squandered their countless benefits down the drain. Now that they are trying to get back on top by spending billions of dollars, we are supposed to be sympathetic to them and root for them? Not happening.

They can have our support by doing the old fashioned thing. You know, working hard and actually showing something for it, rather than just churning out power guzzling rocks that simply compound the problem of global warming. Pat is like, Look Ma! I spent billions and I came up with a product that is just barely competitive with the No.2 x86 player by volume. Now lemme have my sweet apple pie!

It's not like Intel didn't do anything at all. They INVENTED the CPU which AMD simply copied. AMD owes their existence to Intel.

Intel had everything. And almost lost everything. And are now rebuilding. My best wishes to them.

 

[coercitiv]

AMD is the epitome of efficiency

Don't take the bait. There was no reason to bring AMD into the discussion other than to distract attention from a very simple subject.

No leading semiconductor company would be trusted after the combination of node failures/delays and canceled products that Intel went through in the past 5 years. A new product on a competitive node delivered on time would be seen as a good sign, but only sustained execution would restore faith in the company's ability to compete in the long run.

@SiliconFly is just unable to accept the fact that people can simultaneously welcome the good signs of a healthy MTL launch while remaining cautious about Intel's promises for 2024-2025.

 

[SiliconFly]

Well, you if you want to hate on intel, that is your privilege. However, it benefits everyone to have a competitive lineup in order to drive performance forward and tend to keep prices down.

There are still many AMD sympathizers around. But considering a "failed" Intel still has around 90% desktop and laptop cpu market share, I don't think there's much future for tiny competitors like AMD.

 

[SiliconFly]

Don't take the bait. There was no reason to bring AMD into the discussion other than to distract attention from a very simple subject.

No leading semiconductor company would be trusted after the combination of node failures/delays and canceled products that Intel went through in the past 5 years. A new product on a competitive node delivered on time would be seen as a good sign, but only sustained execution would restore faith in the company's ability to compete in the long run.

@SiliconFly is just unable to accept the fact that people can simultaneously welcome the good signs of a healthy MTL launch while remaining cautious about Intel's promises for 2024-2025.

What I'm saying is, most of the hope people lost might be restored if MTL performs.

 

[Abwx]

Most of the world didn't even know what AMD was until 2017 😂

At the time of the Athlon 64 just Dell received roughly 5bn from Intel to not buy AMD Opteron chips, same for HP, this latter firm ever declined 200 000 free chips from AMD in the fear that Intel would no more supply them, that s how Intel managed to keep the number one place.

I can point other anticompetitive practices that were going as down as retailers, and as one of them told me at the time there was an Intel salesman that looked from time to time if there was no AMD equipped PC in the store after this retailer signed an anticompetive contract with Intel.

I guess that in your world that s what you call technical competence.

Indeed Intel is stil acting this way these days, but at some point the dam will burst because they have vastly inferior products, to the point that they label a 250W chip as being 125W, or are selling chips like SPR wich is outdated and will be 2 generations late next year.

 

[H433x0n]

but at some point the dam will burst because they have vastly inferior products, to the point that they label a 250W chip as being 125W, or are selling chips like SPR wich is outdated and will be 2 generations late next year.

The fiasco with Dell happened 20 years ago. It’s not why Intel has the market share they have in 2023.

You’re underestimating the technical contributions that Intel provides the industry and their partners in the current day market.

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD owes their existence to Intel.

That makes it even more embarrassing for Intel. No one would be complaining about Intel if they didn't have a "copycat" competitor outperforming them in performance/watt and also absolute MT performance at a lower TDP.

Intel's engineering teams are now trying to prove their mettle with intimidating names like Beast Lake. But so far, their strategy has simply been reactionary instead of focusing on proper domination through innovation.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Well, you if you want to hate on intel, that is your privilege. However, it benefits everyone to have a competitive lineup in order to drive performance forward and tend to keep prices down.

I don't deny that Intel's Core i5 series delivers decent perf for the price and also their i3 line-up serves millions where AMD has decided it's not worth their effort.

 

[Geddagod]

 

[Doug S]

Intel already had a 40 yr successful track record and it didn't help them when they fumbled in the last 5 years.

It absolutely did. Look how long they stumbled and stumbled again with 10nm before Wall Street finally started punishing the stock. Look how long it took AMD having comparable or better products before they started gaining significant market share. Intel's track record won them years of people believing their management's constant excuses.

Similarly look at how long it took AMD executing for Wall Street to start believing in them, after a decade of Bulldozer and similar debacles. And how long it took them to make significant market share gains despite Intel stumbling at the same time.

Reputation matters, and a long track record of winning will make people forgive a few losses until there are so many that becomes the new normal. Same thing with a long track record of losing making people overlook a few wins until that becomes a habit.

Intel screwed up long enough and badly enough that they need more than one or two wins before people (not the people here, but the people who count) start believing in them and that belief shows up in their stock price and in their market share.

 

[SiliconFly]

At the time of the Athlon 64 just Dell received roughly 5bn from Intel to not buy AMD Opteron chips, same for HP, this latter firm ever declined 200 000 free chips from AMD in the fear that Intel would no more supply them, that s how Intel managed to keep the number one place.

I can point other anticompetitive practices that were going as down as retailers, and as one of them told me at the time there was an Intel salesman that looked from time to time if there was no AMD equipped PC in the store after this retailer signed an anticompetive contract with Intel.

I guess that in your world that s what you call technical competence.

Indeed Intel is stil acting this way these days, but at some point the dam will burst because they have vastly inferior products, to the point that they label a 250W chip as being 125W, or are selling chips like SPR wich is outdated and will be 2 generations late next year.

Like I mentioned, Intel invented the CPU. If AMD has trouble competing, tell them to invent their own thing instead of just copying Intel.

 

[SiliconFly]

That makes it even more embarrassing for Intel. No one would be complaining about Intel if they didn't have a "copycat" competitor outperforming them in performance/watt and also absolute MT performance at a lower TDP.

Intel's engineering teams are now trying to prove their mettle with intimidating names like Beast Lake. But so far, their strategy has simply been reactionary instead of focusing on proper domination through innovation.

They're just getting started with MTL. It gonna take a while. Patience.

 

[SiliconFly]

It absolutely did. Look how long they stumbled and stumbled again with 10nm before Wall Street finally started punishing the stock. Look how long it took AMD having comparable or better products before they started gaining significant market share. Intel's track record won them years of people believing their management's constant excuses.

Similarly look at how long it took AMD executing for Wall Street to start believing in them, after a decade of Bulldozer and similar debacles. And how long it took them to make significant market share gains despite Intel stumbling at the same time.

Reputation matters, and a long track record of winning will make people forgive a few losses until there are so many that becomes the new normal. Same thing with a long track record of losing making people overlook a few wins until that becomes a habit.

Intel screwed up long enough and badly enough that they need more than one or two wins before people (not the people here, but the people who count) start believing in them and that belief shows up in their stock price and in their market share.

Like you mentioned, the old track record is awesome. It will surely help a lot to win back a lot of reputation if MTL delivers!

 

[igor_kavinski]

Like you mentioned, the old track record is awesome. It will surely help a lot to win back a lot of reputation if MTL delivers!

IF? Not when? I found your lack of faith disturbing

 

[Thunder 57]

Intel already had a 40 yr successful track record and it didn't help them when they fumbled in the last 5 years.

AMD had a trashy and very questionable track record for many decades and their success with Zen has already skyrocketed their reputation in a very short span. Don't forget the fact that by the time Zen 2 came out, they were already rock stars and people were worshiping them!

Truth is, public memory is very short. No one really cares about the past. In the next 2 years, we can see comments in this very same thread stating how things were very bad for Intel 2 years ago.

I guess the Pentium 3 1.13GHz recall never existed, nor did the Pentium 4. Or the Pentium FDIV bug. Or the borked Sany Bridge chipsets.

Got it 👍

Thats why AMD was No 1 during the last 4 decades.

They've had success at times. They had a good 386 clone. K5 and Bulldozer were bad. But K6, K7, K8, K10 and Zen were all good or exceptional.

Most of the world didn't even know what AMD was until 2017 😂

You must thing the world is populated by very young people.

They're just getting started with MTL. It gonna take a while. Patience.

And I am out of of patience with you, hence, this post.

Like I mentioned, Intel invented the CPU. If AMD has trouble competing, tell them to invent their own thing instead of just copying Intel.

You mean like inventing x86-64?

Like I mentioned, Intel invented the CPU. If AMD has trouble competing, tell them to invent their own thing instead of just copying Intel.

It was IBM that mandated a second source, not just AMD copying Intel. Learn yourself some history.

 

[SiliconFly]

IF? Not when? I found your lack of faith disturbing

Naturally. We're still talking about Intel 😂

 

[SiliconFly]

They've had success at times.

Wow AMD! I just wish it was true. 😂

 

[Thunder 57]

Delete.

 

[ondma]

IF? Not when? I found your lack of faith disturbing

I think it will be difficult to evaluate MTL, being mobile only. I suppose there will be some laptops with equal configurations except for MTL vs AMD cpus (I find AMD APU lineup very confusing, not sure which model will be direct competitor to MTL), but mobile performance is also very dependent on platform as well. ARL was supposed to be the direct competitor to Zen 5, but if the latest rumors are correct, it looks like Intel borked it. I think for Intel to get their reputation back, they need to perform well in MTL, ARL, and LNL. They also have to be more than on time, they have to be competitive or superior in performance to AMD and come with much improved performance/watt.

 

[SiliconFly]

Fact is, in spite of their last 5 years of "success", their desktop+laptop cpu market share is still at a measly 12%. AMD has a long way to go before they can make a real dent. And considering they're about to lose the window of opportunity, the road ahead doesn't look very favorable to them.

Zen isn't sufficient anymore. They need to pull something bigger than a rabbit out of the hat. Just saying.