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Illegal immigration a disaster for the United States.
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OutHouse
Lifer
[/quote]
Entirely 100% wrong. The vast majority of First Generation Hispanics were here before your family even was. Ever heard of the Mexican-American War and the concessions Santa Ana made to the US? He ceded larges parts of terrority filled with -- you guessed it -- Hispanics. [/quote]
:music: From the halls of Montazuma.... :music:
Entirely 100% wrong. The vast majority of First Generation Hispanics were here before your family even was. Ever heard of the Mexican-American War and the concessions Santa Ana made to the US? He ceded larges parts of terrority filled with -- you guessed it -- Hispanics. [/quote]
:music: From the halls of Montazuma.... :music:
imported_Tango
Golden Member
Interestingly, the Gini coefficient of income distribution for Mexico, while still slightly higher than the US one, has been dropping considerably during the last decades, while in the US it increased.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Gini_since_WWII.gif
So, as far as gap between rich and poor, Mexico's trend is more favorable than the US.
Mexico, has done a tremendous work in reforming and went from being a third world country to being the 12th largest economy of the world. I feel many people in the US don't recognize this.
If this economic pattern continues (increasing production and declining income inequality) Mexico will develop into a precious economic partner for the US. Remember it already is the second largest market for US goods (13.3% of total US exports) and third originator of US imports (10% of US imports).
The fact that a more developed Mexico would greatly help the US economy is out of question, and they are moving in the right direction.
Mexican IPC stock index compare to DJI - 5 years
No one recognizes it because Mexico is one of the most corrupt nations on the planet, no matter how great their economy is the only ones who will ever benefit from it are the rich. They rich just get richer and in turn oppress the poor to their knees keeping them poor thus keeping any semblance of a middle class non-existent.
The only way Mexico will ever get better is a civil war where the poor rise up and destroy the rich and corrupt. The rich and corrupt know this hence there zealousness toward keeping the poor oppressed, poor and uneducated.
As to why they keep coming to the US in droves is more for the free ride than jobs, to quote a quote from one of my posts a few posts up and this is just Los Angeles alone;
Look at this picture, these guys are sure not here for a better life or to become American citizens;
Picture taken at the illegal immigrant march in downtown Los Angeles
The USA has gone from the "land of the free" to the "land of the free ride".
imported_Tango
Golden Member
Oh, come on... I never said Mexico is Disneyland. Just that they improved their economic situation a lot in the last couple of decades, and that this process had a lot of benefits for the US too.
I am an immigrant myself, and I certainly don't want to dictate the US policy on immigration. But if you want my opinion a lot of the flow of illegal immigrants for Mexico could be reduced if it was actually possible for them to immigrate legally, for example for seasonal permits linked to agricultural jobs. Spain is doing this with eastern European workers with very good results.
The point is, I never had problems when I decided to live half of the year in the US, because I am European and have money. I was in Mexico in March and I have seen people standing in a line that stretched for blocks, waiting to talk to somebody at an American consulate. Most people I talked to told me it's basically impossible to get a legal visa.
You know, Mexicans might be poor, but they are not stupid. It's not like they prefer to risk their life and cross a desert walking instead of taking a bus. if they had another way to do it, they would. Most of the illegals have no alternative. Give them an alternative and they will be very happy to comply with the law. They don't see the point in trying to follow a legal path because they know it will never work. They are required to demonstrate they have money, and if they had money they wouldn't try to emigrate in the first place.
And remember that no matter how much you dislike Mexicans the US need them badly, and more so in the future. Just like Europe needs Africans and Eastern Europeans. Growth models assume a growing population, and immigrants are often the most determined and hard working share of the population.
exdeath
Lifer
AND
Ever heard of 'citizenship by birth' and 'anchor babies'? Only the first 1 million have to be illegal. If they have 16 kids each, thats 16 million 'legal' hispanics that are now free to have 16 kids themselves, and thus the birth rate skyrockets and people like you don't attribute it to illegals because they are legal by technicality.
Sex, weed, bud light, welfare, big screens, and Escalades with 26's. Love that Mexican culture...
exdeath
Lifer
That is a blanket assumption just like saying 'all mexicans are lazy or gang bangers'; neither are true.
Such hard workers though, takes alot of effort parking that Escalade with 26" rims in the DES parking lot while you have 6 kids screaming.
That IMO is a serious problem with the immigration debate; everyone wants to be politically correct and assume that 100% of the people sneaking across illegally are 'poor farmers looking for a better life' and that is entirely not true. Some of them maybe, but most people with the mentality to work hard and succeed and become Americans are coming in the legal way, speak better english than I do, and aren't afraid to be tagged on the way in so they can be held responsible for their actions. Not all the people coming across illegally are here to work; there are also drug and weapons dealers, gang bangers, social welfare leeches looking for a free ride, the reconquista, Aztlan, and LaRaza groups seeking to take over the USA by sheer numbers and out of control birth rates, etc. Like the people you saw in the marches wearing red green and white, carrying mexican flags, wearing masks over their faces and shouting anti USA slogans? Yeah, some farmers...
Until people on both sides of the immigration debate accept that, yes indeed, there are more than just 'poor farmers' involved, we can start looking at how serious the problem really is and come up with ways to keep out the bad influences without punishing honest people.
Coming over illegally gives a level of identity free anonymity that basically makes them feel invulnerable to any kind of legal recourse, leading to the lawlessness and complete disregard that is associated with illegal immigration. I'm sure we've all heard the phrase 'pssh you can't do sheet to me ehh' more than enough. Ever notice hispanic criminals are always laughing and smiling like it's all a joke when they are being led to a police cruiser in cuffs while black, white, or other people are humiliated, ashamed, or otherwise defeated in some way? What part of hispanic culture is responsible for that type of outlook on life? "I'm hard core esse, I even got a PO" :roll:
I live in Southern Arizona on the front lines of the immigration debate 60 miles from the border. I've witnessed first hand how the city of Tucson has been overrun, and in 28 years I've seen the city I grew up with slowly transform into a unkempt third world ghetto.
Interesting enough I did not observe the same type of impact on the Norther border in Boise, Idaho. Why is that I wonder... probably something to do with Mexican, and Central and South American socialist culture in general.
Let's hear it for stereotypes! Nice racist description of Mexican culture though.
Well, according to the census bureau, the average US latino family is 0.9 members larger then the average US family as a whole. I guess they've just got to squeeze out an extra 12.5 kids each and they will be right up with your estimates. Regardless, that wasn't even my point. The point was if they wanted to use that statistic to argue against 'anchor babies' that would be one thing. In that 'article' they used it to be something else entirely... and in a way that was insanely false. This implies either deliberate deception, complete lack of fact checking, or a world view so deluded that they would actually think such a number were possible. All 3 of those things disqualify the author as a source of legitimate arguments.
I'm not sure if I understand your point about the birth rate going up though. 2nd and 3rd generations stemming from illegal immigration have a much higher socioeconomic status then their immigrant parents, better levels of education, and in being full members of society they contribute fully with taxes, etc... etc. A large number of the arguments against illegal immigration do not apply to these people. So what is it exactly that you dislike?
exdeath
Lifer
Oh really? 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation children of illegal immigrants living on welfare with no high school diploma, living in portable trailers erected in the driveways and front yards of their parents house with their 3rd baby by the 3rd boyfriend with a forth in the oven is improved socioeconomic status? But hey, the primered and rusted monte carlo has $5,000 gold rims so they must be doing something right :roll:
Describing the neighbors I grew up next to, and it's not the only place I've seen it. It's quite common all over southern Tucson. The further north you go, the nicer it is, and the more people (including mexicans) speak english.
First of all, I live in San Diego... about 20 miles from the border and everything here is great.
Second of all, wow are you a racist.
Third, you should do some research on illegal immigrants and welfare. I can give you some articles assuming you have JSTOR access, but anyways the consensus of researchers is that state welfare programs have almost no effect on the rate of illegal immigration. Receiving those benefits is just not something that the people coming to the US are seeking. (once they get here, it is something that they use at a higher rate then nationals however) Comparing states with generous public assistance and those with very little yields no difference, even as laws are changed.
Then you're going to say that all hispanics laugh in the face of the law, and fill your post up with racist imitations of hispanics? Come ON man. You have some serious problems.
I honestly think you are contributing nothing to this thread, and if this is indicitive of the rest of your postings, nothing to this board. You need to quit with these sorts of ignorant, racist posts.
exdeath
Lifer
Racism is discrimination based on genetic makeup, something I am clearly not describing. I also share the exact same talking points with my friend who is a legal immigrant from Mexico who doesn't even know Spanish, celebrates the 4th of July and not Stinco De Mayo, is going to college, is an ex Marine, and he has worse things to say than I do.
Ask any english speaking Mexican in the healthcare industry what they think of all the illegals packing the ERs and your ears will bleed. Are they racist? All too often I hear "if I can do it you can do it too you lazy b1tch" coming from a legal Mexican immigrant referring to illegal immigrants looking for a free ride. They are just as disgusted by it as I am.
Take your race card right back and shove it up your ass.
Stereotypes, yes, guilty as charged, based on what I realize is my limited view in my city of residence of 28 years. Yes I know I am making broad statements, but it should be obvious that I am specifically referring to the overwhelmingly negative aspects. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that...
I also recognize that the issues I've highlight are related to geographical location and socioeconomic culture, not race. Central and South America is known for its socialist and self entitlement cultural roots, it doesn't matter if the people happen to be hispanic or not. But they are, and to ignore that is being too politically correct to acknowledge a simple unbiased fact.
exdeath
Lifer
Do you not understand a word I said? Try laying off the paxil maybe? Put your delicate sensitivities aside for a moment and see all sides of the issue, even the harsh side you can't bear to acknowledge because it might offend someone.
I'll say it more clearly: not all immigrants from Mexico are cherries and roses.
You are apparently unaware that race is defined in many ways including genetics, culture, historical roots, geography, in instrumental ways, societal ways, I could go on.
I'm not going to have a conversation with someone who uses the phrase "stinco de mayo". It's unfortunate for all of us that you feel this way.
I'm not going to have a conversation with someone who uses the phrase "stinco de mayo". It's unfortunate for all of us that you feel this way.
exdeath
Lifer
Damn right I'm angry that my country is being taken over by a predominantly socialist culture that promote the interests of Mexico in favor of the interest of the United States, unlike any other culture that has immigrated here before.
Damn right I'm angry that my taxes go up to support a pregnant teen immigrant from Mexico driving a more expensive car than I am.
Damn right I'm sick of my insurance premiums going up because of low enrollment because the Hispanic workers can hack their paperwork to get free ACCCHS state health care simply for being Hispanic because they don't want to spend $60 a month out of their $10 /hr paychecks.
Damn right I'm sick of property values plummeting because 4 generations of an illegal immigrant family live in a single family residence and turning this once decent city into a Mexican barrio.
Damn right I'm getting sick of avoiding auto collisions and being run off the road by drunk illegal immigrants.
Damn right I'm getting tired of having to press 2 for English in my own country. Why does 'multiculture' always mean Spanish? Where are the options for Chinese, Thai, Russian, Sweedish, Japanese, etc? I speak Japanese, where is my option to pay my bills in Japanese, why is it only Spanish or English?
There is a lot to be angry about. But you probably life in New York or Illinois and think you know the Mexican immigration issue better than everyone else right?
A lot of people are angry, for good reasons, hence this is even an issue in the first place. My guess is most people won't come out and say what they need to say because of political correctness and fear of being unfairly and incorrectly branded a racist simply because the geographic source of the problem happens to be 'other than white'.
Why don't you go down to Mexico with me and protest for American constitutional rights, and see what happens, hmm?
exdeath
Lifer
Likewise I cannot have a conversation with someone who refuses to believe that not every single illegal immigrant is a perfect harmless angel and they are just here looking for jobs.
Take off your blinders and acknowledge both sides of the immigration debate before getting emotional about it. Start by at least acknowledging that there are multiple factions involved, and not just 'poor farmers'... that would be a good start.
I'm only going to address the negative aspects, because, as is human nature, I only desire to fix the bad things. I don't care about the positives because they are already acceptable. Nobody complains when all the lights are green now do they?
But you can't use the positive impacts of immigration to pretend that the negative aspects do not exist or are not worthy of attention.
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