I want a Desi connecter on Friendster.

[DigDug]

you are like a religious zealot because you are on here basically harassing and attacking people simply because they don't happen to share the same viewpoints as you. this is not "discourse", this is you just ranting at him. you are not re-evaluating anything, all you're doing is asking him to re-evaluate his own beliefs.

I see, and the other 60+ posts don't indicate a response to my zealotry? And as one who is advocating a balance of cultures, I'm the fundamentalist?

 

[Ninjja]

You sure as hell write a lot.. But i'll reply to your questions:
1. No, too much damn facial hair
2. Yes, because it's misused..
3. I love classical indian music and pakistani music but just like I listen to Turkish music and world music in general.. Classical indian culture is fascinating to me... It's modern culture that bothers me..
4. I don't know how to speak Tamil... Why would need to, we're in the U.S. not Madras?
5. Eh, I ignore the parents who beat their kids in public or the guys who walk around in slippers and dresses...

Oh, and I love indian food and Satyajit Ray and Santosh Sivan are two of my favorite filmmakers..

I have to agree with your number (3), but although I didn't want to become embroiled in this, because I often feel like everyone is too hard on you in this forum (whether you deserve it or not ) but your number (5) is stereotypical and ignorant.

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by: rajkanneganti
someone mentioned something abt infighting among indians?..well u have to understand that it was kind of a mistake to make india as one country, india is something like europe being one country where the countries in it such as uk, france , germany are states...if not for the british making india into a single lump, it would have been 24-25 different countries in an indian continent, although the culture is connected, there are enough differences in culture, cuisine and language to warrant separate country status for quite a few of the states in india.freedombeats tamilian culture is totally different frm north indian culture or east indian culture.

Indians in India seem to get along fine. They have fought the enemy side by side and are now prospering side by side. I don't know where you got this twisted theory of yours but India is fine as it is.


Didn't your parents tell you the story about bundle of sticks when you were a kid?? single stick is easy to break but it's very hard to break them when they are bundled together. You don't live in a perfect world and perfect neighbourhood.

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: isasir

Originally posted by: DigDug
Hey Iyassir, I was at Pagwah in Queens (I think it was), and am not even guyanese! I loved it. Such an amazing experience, and a flying smack in the face of that trinidadian here who thinks that migration to another land is either a justification or inevitable cause of de-indianizing him.

Most Indians I know make no mention of a caste system or dowries or anything like that.

Of course, not. These are just excuses used by the kids above to justfiy the self-hatred. That's like a white kid hating his own because of redneck inbreeding in Witchita. Furthermore, the above have been officially condemned, and while laws take awhile before society actually catches up, the fact that progressive legislation exists is testament to the power and viability of India's system.

Yeah the big Phagwah parade is the one held at Smokey Park in Richmond Hill. It's always a good time, though I haven't gone there in about 3 years.

There's extreme views both ways in this thread (you taking one stance, and WinkOsmosis and FreedomsBeat212 and others taking the opposite stance), whereas I think I fit somewhere in the middle.

I don't necessary understand the strong dislike of the Indian heritage by some people, but of course, they are allowed to have that belief, and I respect that.

Let me explain my dislike of Indian culture. There are somethings I really dislike about it: the treatment of women in less literate areas, the burning of female babies, this stupid hierarchy based on how light your skin is. These are traits common in lots of cultures, I'm just at liberty to discuss them because I have first hand knowledge of the atrocities (my cousin in indian can not get married because she's too dark). Arranged marriage also pisses me off. Now, Indian culture has a lot going for it as well, but my argument is that every culture has positive and negative attributes. I hate that my identity is based on my skin color, both by white people and, especially, by indians. Indians have judged me as being a "coconut" (brown on the outside white on the inside" because I rocked to Pearl Jam instead of hip hop (yes, ironic, I know)... They look at me funny when I talk about wanting to be a writer ("Why aren't you going to go into computers, you're so smart!"), they called me a wannabe Jew for being so into movies... I feel like I'm far more accepted by white people than by indian people so it pisses me off when people like DigDug try to shove b.s. like "you have to embrace your motherland" down my throat.. Hey, I've tried.. I honestly have tried to speak to indian folks, the only one's I have anything in common with are the outcasts... And I do embrace my motherland: New York, Baby!

 

[Legendary]

Originally posted by: DigDug

People with even a modicum of sense/open-mindedness don't care about the fact that I'm brown.

If that's the case, then why do you care enough about culture to label your personality as "white", or at least think that you would be?

The hilarity of the situation in this case is, as gopunk mentioned, your zealousness in proving that you think the world is racist against you, when I simply believe that there are those who aren't, and the fact that you are unable to understand that I know I can't change the fact that I'm brown, and I know that people will look at me and think Indian (obviously) but I like to think that there are people who will not based their view on me on that, nor let my brownness change their opinion of me after they've gotten to know me.

I don't think the world is racist against me. I'm just not 15 anymore and naive enough to think that the world is (1) blind to color, or (2) SHOULD be blind to color. It is you (or at least the others in this thread) who assume an inevitable pecking order, by which you place your own color and culture as inferior and therefore want to shed it completely. THIS is what I'm attacking. Why can't one have the best of both - why is there such a desire to forsake one,culture completely, going so far as to use cockamamy excuse like dowry and sati as a justification? What I'm getting at here, and perhaps this applies more to Freedomsbeat - just take a look at some of his posts - is that he wants to be white because he is ASHAMED of his "inferior" roots. Now this, is a complex, and one that I believe is borne of sociological reasons of invisibility and invalidity that I mentioned above, and at least in his situation, from some less than stellar parenting.
I never, ever said that it was wrong to adopt aspects of western culture. But when someone wants to be white, to put it bluntly, it says something more than a belief in this cutesy liberal-arts "color blindnes world" utopianism.

Since I have never been discriminated against by my being Indian, I have no reason to believe what you have said is true (Edit: even though I know in some cases it is). Every girl I've tried to pick up, white or hispanic or Indian (yes, even Indian) I either succeeded or got turned down due to the fact that we weren't compatible. It wasn't like "Hey...you're brown I don't want to hook up with you." I've never experienced what you're talking about - have you? I know it happens, it just hasn't happened to me. But hey, I'm only 18, and I'm sure there's a whole lifetime of racism to be found in my future.

And with regard to freedomsbeat - I agree with your assessment - his "complex" is different from mine. Mine is based on the fact that I wasn't raised into my culture plus the fact that I have experienced no reason to find out more about it. I honestly never really cared in the first place, and the actions of others have yet to compel me to do so.

Edit: Oh I just remembered a quote from someone you may know - "Become the change you want to see in the world." - Gandhi.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: DigDug

you are like a religious zealot because you are on here basically harassing and attacking people simply because they don't happen to share the same viewpoints as you. this is not "discourse", this is you just ranting at him. you are not re-evaluating anything, all you're doing is asking him to re-evaluate his own beliefs.

I see, and the other 60+ posts don't indicate a response to my zealotry? And as one who is advocating a balance of cultures, I'm the fundamentalist?

a response doesn't mean you're engaging in discourse. and i don't recall calling you a fundamentalist... it's an analogy, not an equation. i said you were like a religious zealot because what you say, how you say it, is extremely similar to their style. basically, you believe that you were once like they were now, you "saw the light", and now you're hellbent on making sure they see it too.

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: DigDug

you are like a religious zealot because you are on here basically harassing and attacking people simply because they don't happen to share the same viewpoints as you. this is not "discourse", this is you just ranting at him. you are not re-evaluating anything, all you're doing is asking him to re-evaluate his own beliefs.

I see, and the other 60+ posts don't indicate a response to my zealotry? And as one who is advocating a balance of cultures, I'm the fundamentalist?

a response doesn't mean you're engaging in discourse. and i don't recall calling you a fundamentalist... it's an analogy, not an equation. i said you were like a religious zealot because what you say, how you say it, is extremely similar to their style. basically, you believe that you were once like they were now, you "saw the light", and now you're hellbent on making sure they see it too.

I agree with gopunk so, there, you're being a zealot

 

[slicksilver]

Originally posted by: Zombie

Originally posted by: rajkanneganti
someone mentioned something abt infighting among indians?..well u have to understand that it was kind of a mistake to make india as one country, india is something like europe being one country where the countries in it such as uk, france , germany are states...if not for the british making india into a single lump, it would have been 24-25 different countries in an indian continent, although the culture is connected, there are enough differences in culture, cuisine and language to warrant separate country status for quite a few of the states in india.freedombeats tamilian culture is totally different frm north indian culture or east indian culture.

Indians in India seem to get along fine. They have fought the enemy side by side and are now prospering side by side. I don't know where you got this twisted theory of yours but India is fine as it is.


Didn't your parents tell you the story about bundle of sticks when you were a kid?? single stick is easy to break but it's very hard to break them when they are bundled together. You don't live in a perfect world and perfect neighbourhood.

yeah not too many problems because the people of indian race are pretty docile, looking at ur post i bet u are having a good time relishing BJPs "hindi" nationalism that is very busy in homogenizing the indian subcontinent.

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: Ninjja

You sure as hell write a lot.. But i'll reply to your questions:
1. No, too much damn facial hair
2. Yes, because it's misused..
3. I love classical indian music and pakistani music but just like I listen to Turkish music and world music in general.. Classical indian culture is fascinating to me... It's modern culture that bothers me..
4. I don't know how to speak Tamil... Why would need to, we're in the U.S. not Madras?
5. Eh, I ignore the parents who beat their kids in public or the guys who walk around in slippers and dresses...

Oh, and I love indian food and Satyajit Ray and Santosh Sivan are two of my favorite filmmakers..

I have to agree with your number (3), but although I didn't want to become embroiled in this, because I often feel like everyone is too hard on you in this forum (whether you deserve it or not ) but your number (5) is stereotypical and ignorant.

I've seen it though, Indian parents are way too hard on their little ones.. I admit that the slippers and dress thing was a low bow, people should be able to dress as they'd like to dress.. I was wrong in poking fun at them...

 

[Legendary]

To clarify, the infighting I was referring to was the fighting among Indians in America about things like this.

 

[DigDug]

Well I guess then, the difference is that the light in my case, is more about getting out of a fantasy-like thinking, consisting of a utopian equality and such, and simply realizing that life is more complicated than trying to shift from one culture to another. This may very well look like someone talking about religious enlightenment, but I'd like to think that moving from an unfounded utopia to a more stance grounded upon more analysis and reflection is a step in the opposite direction. Just in case you think I'm trumpeting some marginalzied view, this is something thats been talked about heavily - although I guess that too doesn't shed anymore light on its credibiility.

I just don't see how people don't find something clearly off-kilter with someone whose desire is to be of another culture, especially when color is so connected to it? This problem is especially prevalent among easterners who believe in western religions, so I can't help but think that there is some merit to the difficulty/problem with trying to adopt a culture that has grown out of another people. Muslim Indians are constantly trying make links to their "Arab" past, which if even true, is ironically do probably to a plunder or raping of an ancestor by such invaders. Christian Indians also adopt names from linguical roots not remotely related to their people, and adopt religious behavior equally as alien. Do you know how frankly odd it is to see a bunch of Sri Lankans, for example, dressed up and acting out a nativity scene, pretending to walk around in Jerusalem? Can you not see the result of this internalization, and the inevitable rejection of their indigenous culture? Religion and culture are on some level, inextricably linked with color. That's honestly how I see it is.Is this a fanatical stance? I don't think so, in fact, I think it takes a great deal of fanaticism justify and internalize the opposite. Especially when much of the presence of these religions in such alien areas were only possible through conquest and plunder.

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by: rajkanneganti

Originally posted by: Zombie

Originally posted by: rajkanneganti
someone mentioned something abt infighting among indians?..well u have to understand that it was kind of a mistake to make india as one country, india is something like europe being one country where the countries in it such as uk, france , germany are states...if not for the british making india into a single lump, it would have been 24-25 different countries in an indian continent, although the culture is connected, there are enough differences in culture, cuisine and language to warrant separate country status for quite a few of the states in india.freedombeats tamilian culture is totally different frm north indian culture or east indian culture.

Indians in India seem to get along fine. They have fought the enemy side by side and are now prospering side by side. I don't know where you got this twisted theory of yours but India is fine as it is.


Didn't your parents tell you the story about bundle of sticks when you were a kid?? single stick is easy to break but it's very hard to break them when they are bundled together. You don't live in a perfect world and perfect neighbourhood.

yeah not too many problems because the people of indian race are pretty docile, looking at ur post i bet u are having a good time relishing BJPs "hindi" nationalism that is very busy in homogenizing the indian subcontinent.

That's the beauty of it all. India is a free parliamentry democracy. If you don't like what is happening next time vote wisely. What did voting for cogress(last 40 years) give you?

I would love to know how old you are before I say anything more on Indian politics.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: DigDug
Well I guess then, the difference is that the light in my case, is more about getting out of a fantasy-like thinking, consisting of a utopian equality and such, and simply realizing that life is more complicated than trying to shift from one culture to another. This may very well look like someone talking about religious enlightenment, but I'd like to think that moving from an unfounded utopia to a more stance grounded upon more analysis and reflection is a step in the opposite direction. Just in case you think I'm trumpeting some marginalzied view, this is something thats been talked about heavily - although I guess that too doesn't shed anymore light on its credibiility.

I just don't see how people don't find something clearly off-kilter with someone whose desire is to be of another culture, especially when color is so connected to it? This problem is especially prevalent among easterners who believe in western religions, so I can't help but think that there is some merit to the difficulty/problem with trying to adopt a culture that has grown out of another people. Muslim Indians are constantly trying make links to their "Arab" past, learn arabic, and begin to shed their historical culture for the same reasons. Christian Indians adopt names from linguical roots not remotely related to their people, and adopt religious behavior equally as alien. Do you know how frankly odd it is to see a bunch of Sri Lankans, for example, dressed up and acting out a nativity scene, pretending to walk around in Jerusalem? Religion and culture are on some level, inextricably linked with color. That's honestly how I see it is. Is this a fanatical stance? I don't think so, in fact, I think it takes a great deal of fanaticism justify and internalize the opposite.

i agree with you, it is really weird to see that... i'm chinese and it pisses me off when i see hyper-christian chinese people. but that's their choice... i wouldn't want them bugging me about my choices in life, so i don't bug them about theirs.

 

[slicksilver]

Originally posted by: Legendary
To clarify, the infighting I was referring to was the fighting among Indians in America about things like this.

yeah...gotcha there...

speaking otherwise...in india, there is regional nationalism , ridiculing or bashing of cultural groups in india happens, it is pretty harmless most of the time...jokes on everyone...say a marathi, surd or gujju or bong..or tam or telugu or mallu...etc.etc..and a few issues when it comes to water sharing etc.

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: DigDug
I just don't see how people don't find something clearly off-kilter with someone whose desire is to be of another culture, especially when color is so connected to it?

I just don't see how people don't understand that cultural identity is a vague term at best and that there are many factors that form one's identity. Geography and localized culture in particular is a far bigger influence to ME than the color of my skin... Again, I was not born in India and I owe no allegiance to her as well.. To ME, that's as silly as us all dressing in traditional african garbs because all life originated from there..

 

[Abhi]

This thread is hilarious ....

 

[Ninjja]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: Ninjja

You sure as hell write a lot.. But i'll reply to your questions:
1. No, too much damn facial hair
2. Yes, because it's misused..
3. I love classical indian music and pakistani music but just like I listen to Turkish music and world music in general.. Classical indian culture is fascinating to me... It's modern culture that bothers me..
4. I don't know how to speak Tamil... Why would need to, we're in the U.S. not Madras?
5. Eh, I ignore the parents who beat their kids in public or the guys who walk around in slippers and dresses...

Oh, and I love indian food and Satyajit Ray and Santosh Sivan are two of my favorite filmmakers..

I have to agree with your number (3), but although I didn't want to become embroiled in this, because I often feel like everyone is too hard on you in this forum (whether you deserve it or not ) but your number (5) is stereotypical and ignorant.

I've seen it though, Indian parents are way too hard on their little ones.. I admit that the slippers and dress thing was a low bow, people should be able to dress as they'd like to dress.. I was wrong in poking fun at them...

Yeah....thanks. That's cool that you saw what I meant. I know what you mean about indian parents being hard on their children, it does exist, however, you know that i have to say the mandatory, "it's not necessarily their being indian which dictates how hard they are on their kids", type thing.

 

[slicksilver]

im 25...and i hate congress with a passion,been a BJP supporter but lately ive been annoyed by BJPs brand of "hindi nationalism" where it chooses to subsume regional cultures for their hindutva agenda.

i sure would love to know what part of india u are frm , if u are american then what is the place of origin in india?

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: isasir

Originally posted by: DigDug
Hey Iyassir, I was at Pagwah in Queens (I think it was), and am not even guyanese! I loved it. Such an amazing experience, and a flying smack in the face of that trinidadian here who thinks that migration to another land is either a justification or inevitable cause of de-indianizing him.

Most Indians I know make no mention of a caste system or dowries or anything like that.

Of course, not. These are just excuses used by the kids above to justfiy the self-hatred. That's like a white kid hating his own because of redneck inbreeding in Witchita. Furthermore, the above have been officially condemned, and while laws take awhile before society actually catches up, the fact that progressive legislation exists is testament to the power and viability of India's system.

Yeah the big Phagwah parade is the one held at Smokey Park in Richmond Hill. It's always a good time, though I haven't gone there in about 3 years.

There's extreme views both ways in this thread (you taking one stance, and WinkOsmosis and FreedomsBeat212 and others taking the opposite stance), whereas I think I fit somewhere in the middle.

I don't necessary understand the strong dislike of the Indian heritage by some people, but of course, they are allowed to have that belief, and I respect that.

Let me explain my dislike of Indian culture. There are somethings I really dislike about it: the treatment of women in less literate areas, the burning of female babies, this stupid hierarchy based on how light your skin is. These are traits common in lots of cultures, I'm just at liberty to discuss them because I have first hand knowledge of the atrocities (my cousin in indian can not get married because she's too dark). Arranged marriage also pisses me off. Now, Indian culture has a lot going for it as well, but my argument is that every culture has positive and negative attributes. I hate that my identity is based on my skin color, both by white people and, especially, by indians. Indians have judged me as being a "coconut" (brown on the outside white on the inside" because I rocked to Pearl Jam instead of hip hop (yes, ironic, I know)... They look at me funny when I talk about wanting to be a writer ("Why aren't you going to go into computers, you're so smart!"), they called me a wannabe Jew for being so into movies... I feel like I'm far more accepted by white people than by indian people so it pisses me off when people like DigDug try to shove b.s. like "you have to embrace your motherland" down my throat.. Hey, I've tried.. I honestly have tried to speak to indian folks, the only one's I have anything in common with are the outcasts... And I do embrace my motherland: New York, Baby!

oh ok. Better than your other posts. You can't throw the whole car out just because you have couple flat tires. Even you admit that overall culture is not so bad other than some social problems. Fixing social problems can't be done overnight. It takes time and education. Lets put it this way, its work in progress. So I hope you don't give up on India just yet.

As far as music and clothes are concerned it is personal choice, you either like it or you don't.

 

[DigDug]

i agree with you, it is really weird to see that... i'm chinese and it pisses me off when i see hyper-christian chinese people. but that's their choice... i wouldn't want them bugging me about my choices in life, so i don't bug them about theirs.

But gopunk, I'm not bugging people. I posted a topic on finding desi friendsters and freedoms comes in with how he hates the word desi. And at that point, I was fed up with his little commonets implying about how white he is and how disconnected from indian culture he is - its a typical behavior that I've seen by many like him. So I decided to bluntly write....

 

[slackerinabox]

Originally posted by: DigDug

i agree with you, it is really weird to see that... i'm chinese and it pisses me off when i see hyper-christian chinese people. but that's their choice... i wouldn't want them bugging me about my choices in life, so i don't bug them about theirs.

But gopunk, I'm not bugging people. I posted a topic on finding desi friendsters and freedoms comes in with how he hates the word desi. And at that point, I was fed up with his little commonets implying about how white he is and how disconnected from indian culture he is - its a typical behavior that I've seen by many like him. So I decided to bluntly write....

Oh, grow up.. I hate the word Desi.. Same way I hate the word n*gger.. I view them as equals, a slang word that people in an ethnic group use to describe each other. You're the one who turned this into a debate - I offered to add you to my friendster list! I take it back because I wouldn't want my friends to think that I have anything to do with a narrow minded, ignorant person such as yourself..

 

[DigDug]

I hate that my identity is based on my skin color, both by white people and, especially, by indians. Indians have judged me as being a "coconut" (brown on the outside white on the inside" because I rocked to Pearl Jam instead of hip hop (yes, ironic, I know)... They look at me funny when I talk about wanting to be a writer ("Why aren't you going to go into computers, you're so smart!"), they called me a wannabe Jew for being so into movies... I feel like I'm far more accepted by white people than by indian people so it pisses me off when people like DigDug try to shove b.s. like "you have to embrace your motherland" down my throat.. Hey, I've tried.. I honestly have tried to speak to indian folks, the only one's I have anything in common with are the outcasts... And I do embrace my motherland: New York, Baby!

That was a powerful post Freedom, and I'm glad to see that you are starting to admit what you've been skittering around. I empathize with you, you apparently come from a very orthodox family, but if this is ANY consellation, I know FIRSTHAND about conservative "white" families. I went to a private school with rich, pedigreed kids and let me tell you how royally skaaaarewwwwed up they and their families are. It would give your family a good run for the money, and in many cases outdo you all. I'm talking incest, drug use, intellectual oppression, severe depression, suicide. I think you've gotten a warped persepctive by having more insight into a negative indian situation and barely any insight into the "american/white/whatever" equivalent.
That said, my only reason for writing was, like I intimated, because I remember feeling the same way you did, and remember how nasty it was, becasuse at the base of it I KNEW I couldn't force my self to belong because I was different. And like you, I spent time justifying my stance, dropping statements here and there where I could, to score brownie points (pun intended!) with my white counterparts. And perhaps I'm speculating, but I'm pretty damn sure you know exactly what I'm talking about.
That's why I say, learn to love your people. And the good news is, it isn't that hard, because there is so much to love about them. Just look around and you'll see - take an effort into meeting people like you, or like who you think do a better job of culling the best of both cultures.

Anyway, I'm sorry for ranting. Maybe its important to me and that's why I say all this.

 

[Legendary]

And once again, Indian infighting proves to gain little to nothing for any side except contempt for the other, although not from me in this case. I chalk it up to different locales that is producing this argument between me and DigDug. Freedomsbeat vs. DigDug on the other hand...
/exits thread.

 

[MaxDSP]

Originally posted by: freedomsbeat212

Originally posted by: DigDug

i agree with you, it is really weird to see that... i'm chinese and it pisses me off when i see hyper-christian chinese people. but that's their choice... i wouldn't want them bugging me about my choices in life, so i don't bug them about theirs.

But gopunk, I'm not bugging people. I posted a topic on finding desi friendsters and freedoms comes in with how he hates the word desi. And at that point, I was fed up with his little commonets implying about how white he is and how disconnected from indian culture he is - its a typical behavior that I've seen by many like him. So I decided to bluntly write....

Oh, grow up.. I hate the word Desi.. Same way I hate the word n*gger.. I view them as equals, a slang word that people in an ethnic group use to describe each other. You're the one who turned this into a debate - I offered to add you to my friendster list! I take it back because I wouldn't want my friends to think that I have anything to do with a narrow minded, ignorant person such as yourself..

How in the hell do you view the word n*gger and desi as equals? How is desi derogatory in any way to indians? Sue you didn't mean the word fob?

 

[DigDug]

Same way I hate the word n*gger.. I view them as equals, a slang word that people in an ethnic group use to describe each other.

Why do you view them as equals. NOONE else that I know of, has ever done so. it means what it means as translated by those above. That's just more of your own little self-hatred man. You prove my point in flying colors.