Absolutely. It's just that some choose one over the other based on a complex. But in reality, who someone is, isn't purely a choice of one's own. Perception, my friend, is as defining as behavior. If you don't believe me, put down "white" on your next job application - after all, its your choice, isn't it?
Absolutely. It's just that some choose one over the other based on a complex. But in reality, who someone is, isn't purely a choice of one's own. Perception, my friend, is as defining as behavior. If you don't believe me, put down "white" on your next job application - after all, its your choice, isn't it?
Digdug, you need to grow up. wish i had more time to dissect your writings - but u seem to be more disillusioned than others ... more later!
Haha. exactly.
Its not easy living in any culture, but most don't go so far as to try to be another. I guess the grass is greener on the other side though. I know so many caucasian kids who proclaim jealousy at my family because the culture we have is something the see lacking in their own. They learn sex and social behavior through MTV, their "cultural" clothing is defined by the Gap, and their staple cuisine is burger king and pizza hut. I guess that's all you guys need, right?
Oh, I'm curious to hear. More disillusioned than most?! Wow! I would think that rejecting one's whole culture would take that prize, but I guess I'm wrong!
Listen, I'm not advocating a refusal of America. I'm a porud american and was born and raised here, as opposed to some of you, I'm sure. I love this country and this is my country first and foremost, but I will NEVER refuse to recognize my cultural heritage. I'm so glad to be born in a culture that has so much to offer, and the negative that my exist are the parts of that culture that I do shed. I refuse to believe that these kids are tossing away indian culture becauseo f Sati and dowry, as some of them have argued. That is just a transparent excuse for a greater dissatisfaction. Perhaps they were picked on - perhaps they don't see the "other side" of western culture, but for some reason, they think that they can successfully adopt one and dump the other. Sorry, people, go ahead and try, but if for anything else, your dark brown skin won't let you.
Speaking as Joe Average White Guy, this is a really interesting thread. I know and have worked with a lot of Indian folks over the years (I'm a biochem guy), but this is all relatively news to me.
Carry on.
Carry on.
Legendary
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- Jan 22, 2002
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Is it so hard to believe that I don't like to associate myself with any culture at all? People (like yourself) who are hellbent on classifying people by the color of their skin are the problem.
"You can scream at the top of your lungs about how American you are, begging for that utopia where identity is NOT defined by skin color, and while I too think I am American, the reality is that I AM NOT THE SAME AMERICAN AS A CAUCASIAN ONE. You can go on pledging your allegiance to those different from you, whether through voluntary self-crticism, overt self-hatred, and all that will be achieved is a loss of respect for you by those you aim to please."
You're not the same American as a caucasian one because you choose not to be, not because white people don't respect you. I don't know where you live, but it seems racism is a breeding ground there, by both sides of the coin, white and minority. I don't know what kind of guy you are, but I don't try to please anyone based on skin color. You're the one that seems to be hung up on the skin color issue. You think I don't have respect for myself because I don't like to associate myself with the stupid Indian kids that pervade the society that I live in (all of whom are very similar to you)? They all have a problem with me not having Indian pride, and they hassle me about it. However, unlike them, I don't give them crap about the negative image they reflect upon me. It's known as tolerance, and proud Indians lack it towards other Indians. What kind of moron are you? Don't tell me you know how I live my life better than I do. You're generalizing white people into a very narrow mindset and then equating all whitewashed Indian people to that stereotype. Don't you see a problem with that?
And this is once again, as pointed out recently, a perfect example of what's wrong with the Indian culture. Do you have a problem with letting me live my life as a "coconut?" (I always found that term so fitting - brown on the outside, white on the inside.)
"You can scream at the top of your lungs about how American you are, begging for that utopia where identity is NOT defined by skin color, and while I too think I am American, the reality is that I AM NOT THE SAME AMERICAN AS A CAUCASIAN ONE. You can go on pledging your allegiance to those different from you, whether through voluntary self-crticism, overt self-hatred, and all that will be achieved is a loss of respect for you by those you aim to please."
You're not the same American as a caucasian one because you choose not to be, not because white people don't respect you. I don't know where you live, but it seems racism is a breeding ground there, by both sides of the coin, white and minority. I don't know what kind of guy you are, but I don't try to please anyone based on skin color. You're the one that seems to be hung up on the skin color issue. You think I don't have respect for myself because I don't like to associate myself with the stupid Indian kids that pervade the society that I live in (all of whom are very similar to you)? They all have a problem with me not having Indian pride, and they hassle me about it. However, unlike them, I don't give them crap about the negative image they reflect upon me. It's known as tolerance, and proud Indians lack it towards other Indians. What kind of moron are you? Don't tell me you know how I live my life better than I do. You're generalizing white people into a very narrow mindset and then equating all whitewashed Indian people to that stereotype. Don't you see a problem with that?
And this is once again, as pointed out recently, a perfect example of what's wrong with the Indian culture. Do you have a problem with letting me live my life as a "coconut?" (I always found that term so fitting - brown on the outside, white on the inside.)
So which caste do you dress like when you decide you want to be all cultural?
Edit: I would like to reiterate that I have more in common with Bob Marley and Derek Walcott than... sorry I can't think of a famous Indian except Ghandi, and you can't really compare to him.
Hmm, let me see. If I were to wear a sarong, or a kurta pajama, which caste do you think I would be? Or if my wife were to wear a sari, which would she be proclaiming? Take your flawed logic and rethink it, kid.
My point is this: What unites caucasians? Surely, for the most part many of them don't even know where in Europe they came from, or the language, or dress or style. Then what unites them? Being white. You are not WHITE. There is no CULTURE as such for you to latch onto, or at least one that transcends color enough for you to be aple to replace your color-identified heritage. When I wear shirts, jeans and baseball cap, are you telling me that a white person sees no difference between me and a white person? So then, if it comes down to race, you are fighting a pointless battle. You are indian because you LOOK it. Understand that.
My point is this: What unites caucasians? Surely, for the most part many of them don't even know where in Europe they came from, or the language, or dress or style. Then what unites them? Being white. You are not WHITE. There is no CULTURE as such for you to latch onto, or at least one that transcends color enough for you to be aple to replace your color-identified heritage. When I wear shirts, jeans and baseball cap, are you telling me that a white person sees no difference between me and a white person? So then, if it comes down to race, you are fighting a pointless battle. You are indian because you LOOK it. Understand that.
Legendary
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- Jan 22, 2002
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Once again showing that you're hellbent on skin color. People are me don't care nearly as much as you think they do. Let me put it this way - anyone who has known me for more than two seconds would classify my personality as white. They have gotten over the fact that I'm brown. They don't care what I look like - just how I act. How "white" of them.
I'm so hellbent on color, but you are the one who attempts to put a color on personality? And furthermore, is it not possible that your personality is of an INDIAN in America, and not WHITE? This perception of you as white is you OWN wish and a reflection of your own desire not to be indian, self-hatred to be blunt.
So when the girl of your dreams comes along and she happens to like white people, you think she''ll choose you because you are "white"? This is the hilarity of the situation I'm tring to point out. I'm sure Fausto can jump in here and confirm what I'm talking about. Whites don't see you as white, realize it buddy. And the fact that you try is so incredibly sad. I bet you feel good when some white guy says that he thinks of you as white. My god.
the only complex that is apparent is the one you have... why are you so intent on harassing people who don't share the same beliefs as you in regards to this matter? you're like a frickin' religious zealot.
I guess I'll add my two cents as well.
I'm American. Born and raised. My parents are Guyanese, and their ancestors trace back to India.
In my CD player, you're just as likely to find a reggae CD, as you are to find a hip hop CD or an Indian CD or a soca or chutney CD (West indian music).
I consider myself American first and foremost, but by no means do I shun the Indian heritage. In fact, I view it as a positive thing to be Indian, despite what a lot of people in this thread have pointed out to be negatives. Indians living in America supposedly have the highest disposable income of any immigrant in the US right now. That's the Indian I associate with. The one that's successful at something and worked hard to be there. These are the same Indians though that I'll see at a "desi" party dancing to Indian remixes or playing with friends in a Holi parade throwing red powder at one another. Most Indians I know make no mention of a caste system or dowries or anything like that.
I'm American. Born and raised. My parents are Guyanese, and their ancestors trace back to India.
In my CD player, you're just as likely to find a reggae CD, as you are to find a hip hop CD or an Indian CD or a soca or chutney CD (West indian music).
I consider myself American first and foremost, but by no means do I shun the Indian heritage. In fact, I view it as a positive thing to be Indian, despite what a lot of people in this thread have pointed out to be negatives. Indians living in America supposedly have the highest disposable income of any immigrant in the US right now. That's the Indian I associate with. The one that's successful at something and worked hard to be there. These are the same Indians though that I'll see at a "desi" party dancing to Indian remixes or playing with friends in a Holi parade throwing red powder at one another. Most Indians I know make no mention of a caste system or dowries or anything like that.
gopunk, how am I religious zealot? I'm the one trying to logically analyze the problem through DISCOURSE. I'm trying to question what THEY believe. This sort of reevaluation is the antithesis of religion. What may piss you off, is that I'm touching a nerve here. Perhaps you don't see anything patently ludicrous about an indian kid who is proud to have a "white" personality, but I do.
Hey Iyassir, I was at Pagwah in Queens (I think it was), and am not even guyanese! I loved it. Such an amazing experience, and a flying smack in the face of that trinidadian here who thinks that migration to another land is either a justification or inevitable cause of de-indianizing him.
Of course, not. These are just excuses used by the kids above to justfiy the self-hatred. That's like a white kid hating his own because of redneck inbreeding in Witchita. Furthermore, the above have been officially condemned, and while laws take awhile before society actually catches up, the fact that progressive legislation exists is testament to the power and viability of India's system.
Of course, not. These are just excuses used by the kids above to justfiy the self-hatred. That's like a white kid hating his own because of redneck inbreeding in Witchita. Furthermore, the above have been officially condemned, and while laws take awhile before society actually catches up, the fact that progressive legislation exists is testament to the power and viability of India's system.
Just figured it out - DigDug's racist! Hahaha.. I hate throwing around the word but, really, if I chose to watch anime, listen to the strokes, hang out in the east village, eat indian food and sushi... I'm basing my likes on what I've experiences as a new yorker... You dig? If I actively chose to act more indian then I'm being dishonest with myself and, yes, being a poseur... I was born in Brooklyn, lived my life in Queens, will die in New York... I'm a New Yorker and very fvcking proud....
(EDIT: I don't actually like the strokes much anymore, just making a point.... Indian music doesn't fill me with passion nor do I tap my toes to it, why should I pretend just because my parents were born there? )
(EDIT: I don't actually like the strokes much anymore, just making a point.... Indian music doesn't fill me with passion nor do I tap my toes to it, why should I pretend just because my parents were born there? )
Legendary
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- Jan 22, 2002
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"she happens to like white people"???
What the hell does that mean? She likes the look of white people more than brown people? Anyone that superficial I don't give a damn about.
What don't you understand about people who judge me by my skin color and DISMISS me mean NOTHING to me. They're not worth the dogshit I accidentally stepped in yesterday. People with even a modicum of sense/open-mindedness don't care about the fact that I'm brown. The hilarity of the situation in this case is, as gopunk mentioned, your zealousness in proving that you think the world is racist against you, when I simply believe that there are those who aren't, and the fact that you are unable to understand that I know I can't change the fact that I'm brown, and I know that people will look at me and think Indian (obviously) but I like to think that there are people who will not based their view on me on that, nor let my brownness change their opinion of me after they've gotten to know me.
Edit: I don't know if I'm going to be able to express this more clearly, and while I may be naive in this sense, I'm in the same boat as freedomsbeat - I live in one of the most liberal places in the world, and maybe it's just our differing environments that give us differing opinions.
halfassed knowledge is a dangerous thing. You use words that you don't even understand. :disgust:
you are like a religious zealot because you are on here basically harassing and attacking people simply because they don't happen to share the same viewpoints as you. this is not "discourse", this is you just ranting at him. you are not re-evaluating anything, all you're doing is asking him to re-evaluate his own beliefs.
you're not touching a nerve, i'm not white and i'm not indian... but that's not the point. SO WHAT if you see something wrong with what he is or isn't proud of. that is a choice he has made, let him be. all your ranting just makes me wonder if you have some sort of deep seeded insecurity about your culture that drives you into trying to validate your own beliefs by forcing them upon others.
Yeah the big Phagwah parade is the one held at Smokey Park in Richmond Hill. It's always a good time, though I haven't gone there in about 3 years.
There's extreme views both ways in this thread (you taking one stance, and WinkOsmosis and FreedomsBeat212 and others taking the opposite stance), whereas I think I fit somewhere in the middle.
I don't necessary understand the strong dislike of the Indian heritage by some people, but of course, they are allowed to have that belief, and I respect that.
someone mentioned something abt infighting among indians?..well u have to understand that it was kind of a mistake to make india as one country, india is something like europe being one country where the countries in it such as uk, france , germany are states...if not for the british making india into a single lump, it would have been 24-25 different countries in an indian continent, although the culture is connected, there are enough differences in culture, cuisine and language to warrant separate country status for quite a few of the states in india.freedombeats tamilian culture is totally different frm north indian culture or east indian culture.
If that's the case, then why do you care enough about culture to label your personality as "white", or at least think that you would be?
I don't think the world is racist against me. I'm just not 15 anymore and naive enough to think that the world is (1) blind to color, or (2) SHOULD be blind to color. It is you (or at least the others in this thread) who assume an inevitable pecking order, by which you place your own color and culture as inferior and therefore want to shed it completely. THIS is what I'm attacking. Why can't one have the best of both - why is there such a desire to forsake one,culture completely, going so far as to use cockamamy excuse like dowry and sati as a justification? What I'm getting at here, and perhaps this applies more to Freedomsbeat - just take a look at some of his posts - is that he wants to be white because he is ASHAMED of his "inferior" roots. Now this, is a complex, and one that I believe is borne of sociological reasons of invisibility and invalidity that I mentioned above, and at least in his situation, from some less than stellar parenting.
I never, ever said that it was wrong to adopt aspects of western culture. But when someone wants to be white, to put it bluntly, it says something more than a belief in this cutesy liberal-arts "color blindnes world" utopianism.
Desi as it's generally used just means "our people" or "people from this land", which still applies to you, since your roots are from there. I'm not concerned with your point of view on whether you like it or not, because it's your opinion, but that's how Indian people often identify another person of Indian background, which is you. It's an identifier, almost like saying "black", "white", brown"...
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