I no longer consider myself a christian

[Ricochet]

Have you read the Tao Te Ching? Nicomachean Ethics? Romans? Crito? Bhagavad Gita? Jataka*? Sufist writing*?

These are not rhetorical; say "no" to any or all of them. I want to meet you where you are.

I've not read much in the way of the two with *'s, but i'll dig in to meet you if you're there.

Nope. Haven't read any of them. My background: my parents are Theravada Buddhists and I'm a former born-again Christian. My parents were pretty tolerant of me joining my Christian peers growing up. I took World Religion in college and read quite a bit of Joseph Campbell.

 

[brianmanahan]

i no longer consider myself a troll

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Religion is easily explained by mostly one thing, there are lots of other things you can offer as well, but it's primarily due to the human animal having a large primate brain unlike any other animal.

Because we have such high order intelligence and self-awareness we are aware of our mortality and the mortality of everything else living, human or otherwise. We are the only animal that understands through the majority of our lives that you live and then you inevitably die, perhaps there are a handful of other species that may have this awareness, but not to the degree we do. Also through our lives we witness the loss of other humans, close to us or otherwise, and again because of this large brain capable of emotion, we experience that loss profoundly.

This large brain also allows us to possess empathy for other living animals, experience the loss of those close to us with deep sadness and possess a fear of death no other animal does because of our awareness of its inevitability - rather than most animals with a simple instinct to avoid danger and predators. This same empathetic center is the explanation for why most of us are uncomfortable with murder, theft, rape, hurting others or what have you. It has nothing to do with religion, the created moral tenets of the various religions are just a reflection that humans have always possessed this empathetic center in the brain.

Religion is an attempt to come to terms with our mortality without confronting the uncomfortable, for us, truth that eventually we and those we love all die and are gone forever. That big primate brain also gives us our imagination which lets us create all sorts of high order fantasies and mysticism related to nature. Other examples are things like an irrational fear of the dark even when you're in your own home or hearing creaks in a house and coming up with stories about ghosts. All a product of the imagination running away with things. This same imagination is what can let you look around and 'see' the proof of religion in the world around you. Nature is amazing, it's going to be difficult when you don't know everything about it, and have this great imagination, not to try and explain it with mystical origins.

If you look at the time when the prevalent religions were created, people then had no understanding of the nature of the universe and how things worked. It was easy for ideas of some sort of magical underpinning to everything to come about. Naturally these would be related to where we came from and how everything started. Today in these more advanced times we still are trying to answer these same questions, but now we have the benefit of greatly advanced technology and science to get to the real truth of it, rather than make up mystical stories and events to explain it we have actually started to slowly figure out the truth of it.

I expect if human civilization manages to continue to thrive for a good deal longer that religion will continue to slowly decline and eventually become a fringe. It's unfortunate that in this day and age you can't even be a viable candidate in politics without affirming you believe something that has no evidence to support its existence. A testament to how difficult it is for humans to accept that we are just another animal that through the fruits of evolution became exceptionally intelligent, and just like the other animals we all die and that is the end of things for us like it is for the other species.

I don't disbelieve that there is the possibility of a sentient creator of all the universe, benevolent or otherwise, there is just no evidence one way or the other. So right now it has no more credence to it than any far fetched tale anyone could dream up and write down on paper with no evidence to support it. As far as the current major religions of the world, none of those books are explanations for how the universe came into existence.

You *almost* had it.

Religion started as a way to come to terms with anything we didn't understand or anything we feared. That was the origin of "pagan" religions, there was something greater controlling everything that the people of the time couldn't figure out on their own. Why was weather so capricious? Weather/thunder god. Why did some couples have 15 kids and others couldn't have any? Fertility god. Why did the crops boom one year and fail the next? Agriculture god. Why do forests go up in flame for no apparent reason? Fire god. Find a new fear, create a new god. That's why the earliest pagan religions are generally polytheistic. If wasn't even fears, it was wants too. Anyone that wanted something would invent a new god if one of the others didn't seem capable of handling that particular desire. So sailors invented gods of sailors and thieves gods of thievery and gamblers created gods of luck. As mankind evolved and learned some things they became afraid of less, the gods that controlled those previous fears got dropped and fewer gods were needed. So eventually the monotheistic all-purpose god arose. And the only reason he's needed at all is the mortality thing. Religion didn't start because of the fear of death, religions survive because of the fear of death. Even the people who know the bible is a load of hogwash keep believing because of Pascal's wager. Keep believing in nonsense because it's more comforting than accepting the fact that when it's over it's over.

 

[Phokus]

I no longer consider myself human, i am a strong, independent, attack helicopter and i don't need no pilot!

 

[IronWing]

I no longer consider myself human, i am a strong, independent, attack helicopter and i don't need no pilot!

So which bathroom do you use when it is time to dump the collective?

 

[Phokus]

So which bathroom do you use when it is time to dump the collective?

I drop my loads on some poor country that never attacked us

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Nope. Haven't read any of them. My background: my parents are Theravada Buddhists and I'm a former born-again Christian. My parents were pretty tolerant of me joining my Christian peers growing up. I took World Religion in college and read quite a bit of Joseph Campbell.

I'm a big fan of Campbell I think there's a lot missing in our sloppy interpretations of what he was getting at.

The question really is: does the golden rule not ultimately come from one source?

And what are the implications of the answer to that.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

The question really is: does the golden rule not ultimately come from one source?

Does it? Name the source.


It seems to have arisen independently in a lot of different societies and it is most definitely not linked to any specific ideology. A similar concept is pretty much universal and was a part of every civilized society regardless of where they arose and what gods they invented or in many cases didn't invent. Simple ethics are born without religious influence, it's usually religion that twists ethics so that unethical things become okay as long as some invisible man in the sky says so.

 

[BreadBoy1983]

As a Agnostic, I tolerate most religions, major Religions such as Christianity,Islam,Hinduism,Buddhism,and Judaism along with minor ones such as Sikhism or Jainism as long as its moderate and not extremists or hurting anyone else is fine, Too much of anything is bad including religion examples include 9/11 and shooting up Abortion clinics

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Simple ethics are born without religious influence, it's usually religion that twists ethics.

Basic ethics is in-group vs. out-group thinking: even secularly it's ethnocentrism.

Culture becomes religion, and religion culture: If you think you've escaped you are trapped.

For me I ask: What helps me see everyone as my tribe, giving up my pleasure for their good.


This is the only true religion all human spirits point toward; twisted by our religion and culture.

 

[norseamd]

Pay attention to some of what DixyCrat is talking about here.

Religion can be thought of as just another form of tribalism.

Religion was never much influential in Nazi Germany. There was some interest and activities for Germanic neopaganism early on, but these fizzled out. The heavy use of runes and Germanic mythology in Nazi government, military, and society was basically what survived from that.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?324708-1/sir-david-cannadine-undivided-past

 

[Annisman*]

C.S. Lewis: "When a young man who has been going to church in a routine way honestly realises that he does not believe in Christianity and stops going—provided he does it for honesty’s sake and not just to annoy his parents—the spirit of Christ is probably nearer to him then than it ever was before. "

OP, I hope you can truly find Christ, I hope your declaration is a part of the road to Him.

 

[Ruptga]

Why should religion get some sort of weird pass? Is it supposed to be beyond comment? It's something that we have to politely ignore even when it's shitting on the carpet?

At the risk of sounding like a drooling retard I have to say: LOL!

WelshBloke for elite.

 

[sandorski]

We don't need a Christ, we need to end ignorance.

 

[Ricochet]

I'm a big fan of Campbell I think there's a lot missing in our sloppy interpretations of what he was getting at.

The question really is: does the golden rule not ultimately come from one source?

And what are the implications of the answer to that.

No, the Golden Rule does not come from one source. Any group, tribe, or society will find out it's the best behavior of men interacting with each other. Call it psychology. Call it group dynamics.

Not sure where you trying to lead to.

 

[norseamd]

 

[WelshBloke]

...

Why did you do that?

 

[Hugo Drax]

It feels like a 1000 bricks have been lifted off my shoulders. I don't have all the answers, nor am I foolish enough to think I ever will. But I feel so much better. Now lets see how family reacts to updated religious views on facebook. That is all

I am not a troll.

But are you not worried about going to hell?

 

[Ricochet]

^Why should he be concern about hell? Not believing in the Christian god makes him not believe in hell.

 

[norseamd]

Why did you do that?

Just to show that basically many cultures around the world have proverbs that deal with wise or moral concerns.

The Kurds are just one of those cultures, but they do seem to have quite a few of them.

 

[WelshBloke]

Just to show that basically many cultures around the world have proverbs that deal with wise or moral concerns.

It just says to me that being trite is a pan cultural thing TBH.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Welcome to the dark side. There are no meetings and we bitch at each other even more than we bitch at the opposition, but hey you have Sunday's off now.

 

[Red Squirrel]

The good news is once you are saved you are always saved. You may be a sheep that has been led astray but you will most likely still enter the kingdom of God.

Your file might be cached on St. Peter's computer system due to lack of activity though, so you may end up waiting longer at the gates. Their system is kinda slow since they moved it to the cloud.

 

[norseamd]

It just says to me that being trite is a pan cultural thing TBH.

That might be true.

 

[zinfamous]

But are you not worried about going to hell?

Why would or should anyone be worried about such a thing?

Anyway, I always keep two bits in my pants, if misfortune finds me randomly while strolling through town.

That way, Charon is well-paid if it comes to that, and that's all that was needed for at least a millenia of human history. Failing that, repent at the gate. whatever. It all follows the rules. (good deeds? yes, I've already done those)