I NEED VISTA DRIVERS FOR NVIDIA 8800GTX :!

[gsellis]

The problem is some folks do not want to admit that nVidia does not have a driver for Vista yet for the 8800. So, to turn the argument, they point at Vista and say it is not available. It is. Get over it. And as before, both ATI and nVidia have shipped hardware that does not have a driver for it that is credited in the sales/tech literature. The drivers will ship.

As for "Vista Ready", this is a MS program. It must meet certain specifications to get the label. Including it on the packaging does not assure that it will run in Vista day zero. More marketing.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
For Businesses through business channels. If you aren't an MSDN subscriber and do not represent a business than you have no leverage because you are not supposed to have Vista yet.

If you are:
A.)Business Representative
B.) MSDN Subscriber

Then by all means complain away. If not and you are like 99% of us here then don't complain because you aren't supposed to have a final version.

-Kevin

AND it's available through Volume licensing AND it's available to TechNet Plus subscribers. Which pretty much eliminates your "businesses only" argument.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: Creig

Look, it's VERY simple:

Is the version of Vista available to Technet Plus and MSDN subscribers a legally purchased version of Vista? YES <====WRONG

its a Release Candidate or Beta. I am a MCP and MSDN subscriber..even though I have not tried it, its beta that is available for developers, not the full version.

No, it isn't. It's the full RTM version of Microsoft Vista Business edition which is now available for purchase.

Windows Vista Business

If you would like to read the MSDN Subscriptions weblog, here is the link as well.

http://blogs.msdn.com/msdnsubscriptions/default.aspx

We'll it's shortly after midnight on Friday morning, November 17 and Windows Vista is live on MSDN Subscriber Downloads at http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/. Currently, the English builds are available and we're in the process of adding additional language versions to the site. Traffic is already building steadily.

This is the full, RTM version of Windows Vista Business. It's not a Beta or RC or anything else. Since you're an MSDN subscriber it should be easy for you to confirm this for yourself. The last Release Candidate released was RC2. There is no RC3.

Are you a MCP? are you a MSDN subscriber?

microsoft specifically contracted these software for "testing, developing, and demo only". There are usually difference between these and the retail and microsoft are not liable for bugs etc on these software. We consider these beta.

LET ME HIGHLIGHT THIS FOR YOU: vista is ready for TESTING, DEVELOPING, AND DEMONSTRATION ONLY

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
For Businesses through business channels. If you aren't an MSDN subscriber and do not represent a business than you have no leverage because you are not supposed to have Vista yet.

If you are:
A.)Business Representative
B.) MSDN Subscriber

Then by all means complain away. If not and you are like 99% of us here then don't complain because you aren't supposed to have a final version.

-Kevin

AND it's available through Volume licensing AND it's available to TechNet Plus subscribers. Which pretty much eliminates your "businesses only" argument.

Ok did you look at the volume licensing form. You need to fill out what your business's purpose is (Networking, Office Productivity) and then you have to select a whole list of objectives your business has! THAT IS NOT FOR CONSUMERS

As for TechNet Plus subscribers, by all means complain. But you still have no basis. TechNet Plus and MSDN are not the public. They are subscribers to a microsoft group which they must pay for or must have met certain requirements.

You can twist it any way you want. Vista is released to the Public on January 30. Until then the PUBLIC is not supposed to have a copy. MSDN TN and Businesses go ahead and complain all you want.

-Kevin

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok did you look at the volume licensing form. You need to fill out what your business's purpose is (Networking, Office Productivity) and then you have to select a whole list of objectives your business has! THAT IS NOT FOR CONSUMERS

As for TechNet Plus subscribers, by all means complain. But you still have no basis. TechNet Plus and MSDN are not the public. They are subscribers to a microsoft group which they must pay for or must have met certain requirements.

You can twist it any way you want. Vista is released to the Public on January 30. Until then the PUBLIC is not supposed to have a copy. MSDN TN and Businesses go ahead and complain all you want.

-Kevin

As gsellis said, some people will do anything to direct attention away from the fact that Vista Business HAS been released and Nvidia DOES NOT have a Vista driver available for their supposedly 'Vista Ready' video card.

It's as simple as that. If you choose not to admit it, then that's your problem.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok did you look at the volume licensing form. You need to fill out what your business's purpose is (Networking, Office Productivity) and then you have to select a whole list of objectives your business has! THAT IS NOT FOR CONSUMERS

As for TechNet Plus subscribers, by all means complain. But you still have no basis. TechNet Plus and MSDN are not the public. They are subscribers to a microsoft group which they must pay for or must have met certain requirements.

You can twist it any way you want. Vista is released to the Public on January 30. Until then the PUBLIC is not supposed to have a copy. MSDN TN and Businesses go ahead and complain all you want.

-Kevin

As gsellis said, some people will do anything to direct attention away from the fact that Vista Business HAS been released and Nvidia DOES NOT have a Vista driver available for their supposedly 'Vista Ready' video card.

It's as simple as that. If you choose not to admit it, then that's your problem.

Sweet Lord! How dense are you. It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community!!!!!!!!!! Here let me type it 15x to reiterate it for you:

It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community

I don't care if it is released to them. It doesn't matter because I cannot get a copy. You cannot get a copy. 99% of the people in this thread cannot get a copy. If a business/beta tester has a problem let them ask Nvidia for a driver, but otherwise there is no one out in this world that should have a legal copy. Let me say it one more time in case you missed the other 16x:

It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community

-Kevin

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok did you look at the volume licensing form. You need to fill out what your business's purpose is (Networking, Office Productivity) and then you have to select a whole list of objectives your business has! THAT IS NOT FOR CONSUMERS

As for TechNet Plus subscribers, by all means complain. But you still have no basis. TechNet Plus and MSDN are not the public. They are subscribers to a microsoft group which they must pay for or must have met certain requirements.

You can twist it any way you want. Vista is released to the Public on January 30. Until then the PUBLIC is not supposed to have a copy. MSDN TN and Businesses go ahead and complain all you want.

-Kevin

As gsellis said, some people will do anything to direct attention away from the fact that Vista Business HAS been released and Nvidia DOES NOT have a Vista driver available for their supposedly 'Vista Ready' video card.

It's as simple as that. If you choose not to admit it, then that's your problem.

Sweet Lord! How dense are you. It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community!!!!!!!!!! Here let me type it 15x to reiterate it for you:

It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community
It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community

I don't care if it is released to them. It doesn't matter because I cannot get a copy. You cannot get a copy. 99% of the people in this thread cannot get a copy. If a business/beta tester has a problem let them ask Nvidia for a driver, but otherwise there is no one out in this world that should have a legal copy. Let me say it one more time in case you missed the other 16x:

It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community

-Kevin

Aww, let it go.

You've done more than your part to combat this silliness. The people with which you are arguing simply refuse to reason -- even to the point of selflessly, quixotically rushing to defend G80-wielding small business owners from nVidia's evil marketing machine. Hilarious! Let the people waste their own time...

In 20 days, none of this will matter.

 

[VooDooAddict]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
In 20 days, none of this will matter.

Probably even less.

 

[Gstanfor]

Talk about desperate fanatics...

 

[beggerking]

ok, lets end this.. its officially MS's fault.

Dec 2006 DX SDK
"What's New in the December 2006 DirectX SDK

This version of the DirectX SDK contains the following new features, tools, and documentation.

Direct3D 10 RTM

The DirectX December 2006 SDK contains the first official release of Direct3D 10, the latest graphics platform from Microsoft. Developers can now publish and distribute Direct3D 10 applications and games that leverage all of the software and hardware features of Direct3D 10 in Windows Vista."


to tuteja1986: Stop trolling. We all know you are biased. You never bought the card(s), you are just here to stir up crap.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: apoppin
then stop posting if you feel you are "wasting time"

you speak for *no one* but yourself

Because I am not going to have my name trashed on this forum while I sit back and say I don't care.

There is a reason I post on these forums:
A.) Something I enjoy doing
B.) Something I know a lot about
C.) I like to help people

The reason I'm telling people in this thread to grow up; because they are inhibiting me from doing that. All they are doing is trying to create another flame thread, and sadly enough, it looks like they have succeeded.

-Kevin

please take your own advice ... grow up

you are the only one capable of *trashing* your name

it is very clear that you are as one-sided as any poster can be ...

and yet you deny it

:roll:

and you seem to be *stuck* on the Fact that Vista is released and is available and nvidia g80 drivers are not

and somehow you feel *compelled* to stick up for them when they need no defense ...
other than they are "behind"

SO I assume you are sticking up for the "common good" then huh? Give me a break Apoppin, I am no more biased that anyone else on this forum. I'll buy whoever is best at the time so stop playing the biased fan boy card and, as I said earlier, get a real argument.

-Kevin

you deserve no *break* ... try MacDonalds

you are *pretending* to be sticking up for the *common good* and also hypocritically telling us not to do exactly what you are doing.

*no more biased* ... well, you are 100% nvidia thru and thru and everything you post and have posted defends and excuses them. ...

you mantra of repeating 'Vista is not released' does not make it true.

it is available from Microsoft ...

otoh, i still don't see any g80 vista drivers.

 

[Aberforth]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_97.46.html (and don't start again)

 

[Cookie Monster]

Yeah but thats for 7 series and down isnt it?

 

[Aberforth]

7 Series??? ok then we just have to wait.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: apoppin
you are *pretending* to be sticking up for the *common good* and also hypocritically telling us not to do exactly what you are doing.

*no more biased* ... well, you are 100% nvidia thru and thru and everything you post and have posted defends and excuses them. ...
you mantra of repeating 'Vista is not released' does not make it true.

it is available from Microsoft ...

otoh, i still don't see any g80 vista drivers.

First off, your bashing tactics are rather smug, and I think most people can see right through them.

And I'm not familiar with GamingPhreek's posting history, but I've never seen him regarded as "100% nVidia thru and thru." So I just think you're using the typical trolling techniques of personally bashing to push your own personal agenda through.

Nelsieus

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: apoppin
then stop posting if you feel you are "wasting time"

you speak for *no one* but yourself

Because I am not going to have my name trashed on this forum while I sit back and say I don't care.

There is a reason I post on these forums:
A.) Something I enjoy doing
B.) Something I know a lot about
C.) I like to help people

The reason I'm telling people in this thread to grow up; because they are inhibiting me from doing that. All they are doing is trying to create another flame thread, and sadly enough, it looks like they have succeeded.

-Kevin

please take your own advice ... grow up

you are the only one capable of *trashing* your name

it is very clear that you are as one-sided as any poster can be ...

and yet you deny it

:roll:

and you seem to be *stuck* on the Fact that Vista is released and is available and nvidia g80 drivers are not

and somehow you feel *compelled* to stick up for them when they need no defense ...
other than they are "behind"

SO I assume you are sticking up for the "common good" then huh? Give me a break Apoppin, I am no more biased that anyone else on this forum. I'll buy whoever is best at the time so stop playing the biased fan boy card and, as I said earlier, get a real argument.

-Kevin

you deserve no *break* ... try MacDonalds

you are *pretending* to be sticking up for the *common good* and also hypocritically telling us not to do exactly what you are doing.

*no more biased* ... well, you are 100% nvidia thru and thru and everything you post and have posted defends and excuses them. ...

you mantra of repeating 'Vista is not released' does not make it true.

it is available from Microsoft ...

otoh, i still don't see any g80 vista drivers.

LOL, see what I mean, Kevin? Apoppin cuts off the crux of your argument and then blames you for the truncated version as some kind of "mantra." I'll forget about the ridiculous you're-biased-am-not-am-too-you're-a-hypocrite line of argument because logically it has nothing to do with whether or not nVidia should have released drivers.

Here's what's missing in their arguments: there's no attempt by these people to critically analyze their own positions. You cannot convince them. They do not care about correctness; they only care about proving their presuppositions. Any information that does not serve this purpose is discarded, no matter how many times you post it.

Specifically, the whole thing hinges on why the Jan. 30th date was set for a consumer release, but people are so interested in griping that they won't ever allow themselves to calmly and honestly evaluate this information.

Instead, they overgeneralize: since it is possible to abuse the licensing system to obtain licensed RTM copies of Vista before the consumer release date and to use these licenses for purposes specifically currently unsupported by the licensee, nVidia is somehow at fault for not providing the licensors with drivers to fulfill these unsupported purposes.

On Jan. 30th, this changes completely. At that point, if there are no drivers for the G80, then nVidia is at fault. You people can keep pretending that you are sticking up for a few hypothetical small business owners who've loaded their business PCs with G80 cards, but we know what's really at stake.

You want to game on Vista, and you're upset that you cannot do so for a few weeks. How many previews and reviews of Vista have specifically mentioned the Jan. 30th release date? How many news sites covered the delay months in advance? What's with all the pretending here that somehow nVidia was supposed to give you drivers in December?

:Q

I'm going to take my own advice now and quit responding to the absurdity.

And if no one's going to offer me a , I'll just help myself.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Sweet Lord! How dense are you. It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community!!!!!!!!!! Here let me type it 15x to reiterate it for you:

YOU just said it HAS been released to Businesses....so should there not be a driver for it if as you stated Vista (in one form or another) HAS been released? Just because YOU don't need that driver doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

Also, will the Vista driver for businesses be any different to what you or I can get?? If it IS the same then it should be released now. If it is different then I can see a reason to delay an official Vista driver until the 30th...however, ANY Vista version should have a G80 capable driver, so since you so eloquently stated that Vista HAS been released (even if just the business version) there SHOULD be a driver for it.

People claiming there SHOULDN't be a driver until the 30th are technically wrong since we all agree that it HAS been released (even if only the Business version). You can argue what purpose a business has with G80 but that wasn't what the thread was about. I understand where both sides are coming from and in certain respects both sides are right but at the very basic level there SHOULD be a Vista driver. I personally don't care since I'm not running Vista anyway but I can understand where some people running Vista are coming from.

 

[mylok]

I am a MSDN subcriber and VISTA is not in BETA it is RTM. The version of Ultimate I have is the FINAL version. It is the exact version that will be available at retail outlets later this month. I also have a FULL version on they way (non MSDN should be here within 2 weeks). The IT staff at my work have been evaluating it for the last couple of weeks (making sure our apps work with it) before it is deployed. This is not a test or beta version.

It is lame that nvidia does not even have beta drivers available for the 8800 series of cards and VISTA.

Just wanted to add that when I run dxdiag in vista the version reported is v10.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: thilan29
YOU just said it HAS been released to Businesses....so should there not be a driver for it if as you stated Vista (in one form or another) HAS been released? Just because YOU don't need that driver doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

That's a very week argument because there's a reason intended by Microsoft to release it solely to the business community initially, with consumer availabiluty coming two months later.

Just because I don't need the driver? More like everyone who doesn't have Vista. And because vista is not yet released to consumers, I'd imagine that's a very large number of people, with the remaining percent - those who do own Vista - having no need for the Geforce 8 products, anyways (unless office work has gotten more intense than 3d gaming).

Originally posted by: thilan29Also, will the Vista driver for businesses be any different to what you or I can get?? If it IS the same then it should be released now.

I can give you a few reasons, but the most prominent is driver maturity. There's no need to rush them out when they're not needed. Just because you want them now doesn't warrant an immediate release (which I'm not understanding, since you don't even have Vista, do you? )

Originally posted by: thilan29I personally don't care since I'm not running Vista anyway but I can understand where some people running Vista are coming from.

But most people in this thread advocating for a Vista driver don't have Vista yet, including yourself.

So I'm curious why there's such this strong outcry to something that has no affect on you and the few agreeing members.

Nelsieus

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: apoppin
you are *pretending* to be sticking up for the *common good* and also hypocritically telling us not to do exactly what you are doing.

*no more biased* ... well, you are 100% nvidia thru and thru and everything you post and have posted defends and excuses them. ...
you mantra of repeating 'Vista is not released' does not make it true.

it is available from Microsoft ...

otoh, i still don't see any g80 vista drivers.

First off, your bashing tactics are rather smug, and I think most people can see right through them.

And I'm not familiar with GamingPhreek's posting history, but I've never seen him regarded as "100% nVidia thru and thru." So I just think you're using the typical trolling techniques of personally bashing to push your own personal agenda through.

Nelsieus

Apoppin and Creig generally lump me in with Rollo because he was kind to me. So in their mind I am guilty by association. Never mind the fact that the only high end card I have been recommending the past like 3 months has been the X1900XT.

He can't manage to see that Vista isn't released to the General Public. He can't manage to see the evidence I have posted that dispell his accusations (Both personal and towards the Topic Issue).

-Kevin

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Sweet Lord! How dense are you. It has been released to the Business and Beta testing community!!!!!!!!!! Here let me type it 15x to reiterate it for you:

YOU just said it HAS been released to Businesses....so should there not be a driver for it if as you stated Vista (in one form or another) HAS been released? Just because YOU don't need that driver doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

Also, will the Vista driver for businesses be any different to what you or I can get?? If it IS the same then it should be released now. If it is different then I can see a reason to delay an official Vista driver until the 30th...however, ANY Vista version should have a G80 capable driver, so since you so eloquently stated that Vista HAS been released (even if just the business version) there SHOULD be a driver for it.

People claiming there SHOULDN't be a driver until the 30th are technically wrong since we all agree that it HAS been released (even if only the Business version). You can argue what purpose a business has with G80 but that wasn't what the thread was about. I understand where both sides are coming from and in certain respects both sides are right but at the very basic level there SHOULD be a Vista driver. I personally don't care since I'm not running Vista anyway but I can understand where some people running Vista are coming from.

Drivers are released based on when the General Public needs them, not Businesses. Unfair to businesses (and Beta Testers)...Yes; if they want they can complain.

99% of the people in this thread are not representing a Business or a Beta Tester and so therefore should not be complaining because they should not have obtained a copy.

Let me say this again, the FINAL Release, not RTM, not just Business, the release in which the multitudes of people will get it, the DESIGNATED release is January 30. Until that point only the 1% should be complaining, not the 99.

-Kevin

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: apoppin
then stop posting if you feel you are "wasting time"

you speak for *no one* but yourself

Because I am not going to have my name trashed on this forum while I sit back and say I don't care.

There is a reason I post on these forums:
A.) Something I enjoy doing
B.) Something I know a lot about
C.) I like to help people

The reason I'm telling people in this thread to grow up; because they are inhibiting me from doing that. All they are doing is trying to create another flame thread, and sadly enough, it looks like they have succeeded.

-Kevin

please take your own advice ... grow up

you are the only one capable of *trashing* your name

it is very clear that you are as one-sided as any poster can be ...

and yet you deny it

:roll:

and you seem to be *stuck* on the Fact that Vista is released and is available and nvidia g80 drivers are not

and somehow you feel *compelled* to stick up for them when they need no defense ...
other than they are "behind"

SO I assume you are sticking up for the "common good" then huh? Give me a break Apoppin, I am no more biased that anyone else on this forum. I'll buy whoever is best at the time so stop playing the biased fan boy card and, as I said earlier, get a real argument.

-Kevin

you deserve no *break* ... try MacDonalds

you are *pretending* to be sticking up for the *common good* and also hypocritically telling us not to do exactly what you are doing.

*no more biased* ... well, you are 100% nvidia thru and thru and everything you post and have posted defends and excuses them. ...

you mantra of repeating 'Vista is not released' does not make it true.

it is available from Microsoft ...

otoh, i still don't see any g80 vista drivers.

LOL, see what I mean, Kevin? Apoppin cuts off the crux of your argument and then blames you for the truncated version as some kind of "mantra." I'll forget about the ridiculous you're-biased-am-not-am-too-you're-a-hypocrite line of argument because logically it has nothing to do with whether or not nVidia should have released drivers.

Here's what's missing in their arguments: there's no attempt by these people to critically analyze their own positions. You cannot convince them. They do not care about correctness; they only care about proving their presuppositions. Any information that does not serve this purpose is discarded, no matter how many times you post it.

Specifically, the whole thing hinges on why the Jan. 30th date was set for a consumer release, but people are so interested in griping that they won't ever allow themselves to calmly and honestly evaluate this information.

Instead, they overgeneralize: since it is possible to abuse the licensing system to obtain licensed RTM copies of Vista before the consumer release date and to use these licenses for purposes specifically currently unsupported by the licensee, nVidia is somehow at fault for not providing the licensors with drivers to fulfill these unsupported purposes.

On Jan. 30th, this changes completely. At that point, if there are no drivers for the G80, then nVidia is at fault. You people can keep pretending that you are sticking up for a few hypothetical small business owners who've loaded their business PCs with G80 cards, but we know what's really at stake.

You want to game on Vista, and you're upset that you cannot do so for a few weeks. How many previews and reviews of Vista have specifically mentioned the Jan. 30th release date? How many news sites covered the delay months in advance? What's with all the pretending here that somehow nVidia was supposed to give you drivers in December?

:Q

I'm going to take my own advice now and quit responding to the absurdity.

And if no one's going to offer me a , I'll just help myself.

QFT. And heres one of my precious cookies.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus


So I'm curious why there's such this strong outcry to something that has no affect on you and the few agreeing members.

Nelsieus

Must be some form of minor "mass-hysteria" or something. The business version of Vista is out. Ok, that's great. Why people want a driver for a G80 for a business machine is unknown to me. I mean, shouldn't they be using them for, I don't know, .....business???
What we have here is a few IT geekazoids who like to play with new toys at work when they should be earning their money. Probably got their G80's with some expense accounts as well. Way to waste company resources folks.

And, do not try to take the graphics workstation route either. There are plenty of cards from ATI and Nvidia that will suffice. (FireGL/Quadro).

Cripes...

 

[Creig]

Apparently some people around here seem to think that Windows Vista Business will only work on machines installed in offices.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Creig
Apparently some people around here seem to think that Windows Vista Business will only work on machines installed in offices.

No Creig, you didn't read yet again. I said you can only obtain a copy of Vista Business if you own a business AT THIS POINT IN TIME (IE UNTIL JAN 30). I just looked and stated what was on the form you have to fill out. After you manage to fill out your "Business's" objective, you then are given a Business retailer.

-Kevin