I Don't Know If Joe Can Do It

[fskimospy]

You silly goose! What else are they going to talk about? All the policies they don't have or all the policies they've enabled that go against their ideology?

When you've got nothing, being the loudest guy in the room wins.

It was very telling that when asked what he wanted to do in a second term Trump had no answer.

 

[woolfe9998]

It was very telling that when asked what he wanted to do in a second term Trump had no answer.

Because Trump's "vision" is solely the notion of himself being admired by throngs of people as he stands atop the podium over the greatest military parade evar. That is his vision. He doesn't have one for America.

His supporters do, though. A very ugly one.

 

[ivwshane]

Yes, politically, you're right. For now. However, it does cost a lot more to have multiple payers in the system, instead of just the single government payer. Costs a ton more in the form of bureaucracy and administration.

Then again, Biden's plan will sell the American public on Medicare being the single payer. Look at Medicare satisfaction rates with seniors and consider how that translates to tens of millions of non-retirees getting it. There is a mistrust of government here which is where the political barrier lies. Direct personal experience dispelling this is what we need before we can even consider getting rid of private insurance.

I disagree. The biggest roadblock for universal health care is that it would lead to millions of people losing their jobs. A slow and steady rollout where obsolete jobs are slowly eliminated would be best.

People are already sold on the idea and messaging can counter most of its opponents objections. Telling people they are going to lose their way of life though...well that's a much harder sell.

 

[woolfe9998]

Why not just use the German model which has a government insurance company that covers basically everyone with private insurance on top? The government system is the default everything else must build around.

I'm not entirely familiar with the details of that system. If private insurance is supplemental there, that is very different from here. The truth is, selling Medicare alone to compete against private insurance is going to be the doom of private insurance anyway. If we want to somehow maintain it, it would have to be in a supplemental capacity at most. Yet Medicare doesn't need much supplementation because it isn't crappy insurance like the private insurance is.

The problem with multiple payers in general is that this requires medical providers to generate individual patient billing. Billions of pages of it every year. Created by hospital employees, and reviewed by insurance company claims reps. I read somewhere that the average hospital employs about 50 people just to generate bills. These administrative costs are about 20% of the total healthcare costs in the US.

In Canada, they have just the one payer, so there are no bills. They just reimburse the medical providers for all their costs based on a cost accounting which is already prepared by every business in the normal course. They also, of course, have to put caps on what they're willing to pay. It saves a ton of money.

 

[Meghan54]

You do realize those weren't real, right? They put up BS turd bills as a political ploy. We all know this, come on...

Like I said, see how fast those don't pass when/if they gain control in January.

Fucking liar.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not entirely familiar with the details of that system.

The problem with multiple payers in general is that this requires medical providers to generate individual patient billing. Billions of pages of it every year. Created by hospital employees, and reviewed by insurance company claims reps. I read somewhere that the average hospital employs about 50 people just to generate bills. These administrative costs are about 20% of the total healthcare costs in the US.

In Canada, they have just the one payer, so there are no bills. They just reimburse the medical providers for all their costs based on a cost accounting which is already prepared by every business in the normal course. They also, of course, have to put caps on what they're willing to pay. It saves a ton of money.

The main difference is because about 90% of the population in Germany is covered by one of the public insurance funds so the standardization you’re referring to already exists from my (admittedly imperfect) understanding.

 

[woolfe9998]

I disagree. The biggest roadblock for universal health care is that it would lead to millions of people losing their jobs. A slow and steady rollout where obsolete jobs are slowly eliminated would be best.

People are already sold on the idea and messaging can counter most of its opponents objections. Telling people they are going to lose their way of life though...well that's a much harder sell.

You're talking about people losing their jobs in the insurance industry? Some will find work with Medicare itself, who will be hiring. Others will not. That, however, is mainly a concern of those particular workers and their families.

I think the bigger hurdle is convincing people to accept the government as sole insurer because republicans have been spewing their anti-government ideology all over the American political landscape for decades.

Either way, the Biden plan will also cause massive layoffs in the private insurance industry by shrinking their market share, forcing them to compete against something they can't compete against. I suppose that will acclimate people to the idea, as you say.

But it's also ironic that certain "progressives" think that by backing a public option they are doing the bidding of insurance companies. Because insurance companies are just dying to compete with Medicare, and reasons.

 

[fskimospy]

You're talking about people losing their jobs in the insurance industry? Some will find work with Medicare itself, who will be hiring. Others will not. That, however, is mainly a concern of those particular workers and their families.

I think the bigger hurdle is convincing people to accept the government as sole insurer because republicans have been spewing this anti-government ideology all over the American political landscape for decades.

Most of our excess spending is to providers. For example, the people processing the payments you mentioned.

If a system is as inherently wasteful as ours that means a lot of people are getting paid who don’t need to be.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

In Canada, they have just the one payer, so there are no bills. They just reimburse the medical providers for all their costs based on a cost accounting which is already prepared by every business in the normal course. They also, of course, have to put caps on what they're willing to pay. It saves a ton of money.

Sounds like he is proposing the same as Canada, where you have your baseline coverage with Medicare - but the rich elites get the market insurance on top to get nicer facilities, less wait time, etc...

Overall I'm for M4A in the form of a public option. If it truly is the best option, then it should have no problem beating out the other for-profit options and it wouldn't take long before it's the lone option. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[shortylickens]

Some third party sellers made nasty shirts about Kamala and Amazon removed them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1295885542891061250

Remember that when you hear Republicans and their voters call themselves the party of morals and decency.

 

[nickqt]

I disagree. Our most celebrated Presidents are the ones who were bold, visionary leaders. There is a reason that Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Truman, Jefferson and Eisenhower consistently rank in the top 10.

Because they didn't have the Modern Republican Party doing everything they could to stop every attempt at bold, visionary changes.

Obama tried reaching out for 8 years. He was specifically shut down by the Republican Party. Who then went and elected Donald Trump.

Get a grip.

 

[Ajay]

Why not just use the German model which has a government insurance company that covers basically everyone with private insurance on top? The government system is the default everything else must build around.

Oh how I wish this was the standard we would aim for. Everybody gets *excellent* healthcare and those making above 60K Euros per year can opt into a private plan which must provide, at a minimum, the same level of healthcare of government healthcare (and benefits from gov't standard pricing on medications, etc). And, every tax payer contributes to the government plan, including corporations. Germany is a large country, so scaling it up to the US population should be straight forward. I don't like medicare for all, I don't think it suits our country, but I guess I take what we can get.

 

[Meghan54]

Oh how I wish this was the standard we would aim for. Everybody gets *excellent* healthcare and those making above 60K Euros per year can opt into a private plan which must provide, at a minimum, the same level of healthcare of government healthcare (and benefits from gov't standard pricing on medications, etc). And, every tax payer contributes to the government plan, including corporations. Germany is a large country, so scaling it up to the US population should be straight forward. I don't like medicare for all, I don't think it suits our country, but I guess I take what we can get.

Lemme ask... what the heck does “don’t think it suits our country” means? Seems to suit a large fraction of our population already.

 

[fskimospy]

Lemme ask... what the heck does “don’t think it suits our country” means? Seems to suit a large fraction of our population already.

It’s that the healthcare provided by Medicare is just fine but is not as good as the health care the upper middle class and above can afford.

 

[shortylickens]

It’s that the healthcare provided by Medicare is just fine but is not as good as the health care the upper middle class and above can afford.

yeah I remember way back in 2006 when I had excellent corporate insurance and life was so great.

 

[woolfe9998]

It’s that the healthcare provided by Medicare is just fine but is not as good as the health care the upper middle class and above can afford.

Medicare is better than any insurance, save possibly a small number of Cadillac plans for corporate execs. It is similar to whatever government employees get or what union workers often get. Even "gold" insurance still has yearly deductibles. With Medicare on the market, private insurance will be relegated to a tiny niche.

 

[Meghan54]

It’s that the healthcare provided by Medicare is just fine but is not as good as the health care the upper middle class and above can afford.

So what you’re saying is that the surgery my wife had on her knee, paid for by Medicare, would’ve been even better if we’d used private ins? Damn...and after all the trouble I went through to get her surgery done at the #3 ranked hospital in GA for knee repair (Northside) and an orthopedic surgeon that is one of the few in the state that could manage the plateau fracture of her R tibia, with bad displacement.
And it went off beautifully. Don’t know how having private ins would have made it any better at all...hint—it wouldn’t have.

 

[woolfe9998]

So what you’re saying is that the surgery my wife had on her knee, paid for by Medicare, would’ve been even better if we’d used private ins? Damn...and after all the trouble I went through to get her surgery done at the #3 ranked hospital in GA for knee repair (Northside) and an orthopedic surgeon that is one of the few in the state that could manage the plateau fracture of her R tibia, with bad displacement.
And it went off beautifully. Don’t know how having private ins would have made it any better at all...hint—it wouldn’t have.

Medicare is rated by users higher than private insurance both as to quality of care and as to coverage.

Most Americans Still Rate Their Healthcare Quite Positively

Majorities of Americans rate the coverage (69%) and quality (80%) of the healthcare they personally receive as "excellent" or "good," but Americans are much less positive about healthcare in the U.S. in general.

news.gallup.com

 

[fskimospy]

Guys no, it’s that if you’re willing to pay a lot more money you get better health insurance.

It’s not better for the average person, it’s worse. For wealthy people it genuinely is better though and that’s okay.

 

[brycejones]

We're talking about Harris specifically, not the ticket.

Bernie lost the primary.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Because they didn't have the Modern Republican Party doing everything they could to stop every attempt at bold, visionary changes.

Obama tried reaching out for 8 years. He was specifically shut down by the Republican Party. Who then went and elected Donald Trump.

Get a grip.

That is what opposition parties do. Obama was a visionary, but he stumbled on execution, and it cost him in the legislature.

Trump was the candidate the Democrats wanted to run against. They got their wish.

Republicans will now pay the price for placing their trust in Trump. Place your faith in a pied piper populist, don’t complain when he utterly fails when faced with a true crisis.

I fully expect Democrats to remain united behind Biden, and then bicker their way to midterms as centrist moderates and progressives fight over crumbs, leading to a resurgent GOP that will most likely rally around Mitt Romney and Nikki Haley.

 

[Jhhnn]

That is what opposition parties do. Obama was a visionary, but he stumbled on execution, and it cost him in the legislature.

Trump was the candidate the Democrats wanted to run against. They got their wish.

Republicans will now pay the price for placing their trust in Trump. Place your faith in a pied piper populist, don’t complain when he utterly fails when faced with a true crisis.

I fully expect Democrats to remain united behind Biden, and then bicker their way to midterms as centrist moderates and progressives fight over crumbs, leading to a resurgent GOP that will most likely rally around Mitt Romney and Nikki Haley.

Gawd. The GOP provided Obama with the most obstructionist Congresses in History. They took the govt hostage to their desires.

 

[nickqt]

That is what opposition parties do. Obama was a visionary, but he stumbled on execution, and it cost him in the legislature.

Trump was the candidate the Democrats wanted to run against. They got their wish.

Republicans will now pay the price for placing their trust in Trump. Place your faith in a pied piper populist, don’t complain when he utterly fails when faced with a true crisis.

I fully expect Democrats to remain united behind Biden, and then bicker their way to midterms as centrist moderates and progressives fight over crumbs, leading to a resurgent GOP that will most likely rally around Mitt Romney and Nikki Haley.

Obama was elected. House and Senate Republicans met to discuss how they would block everything. "Tea Party Patriots" sprang up to decry the coming gun seizures and DeathPanels™ that Kenyan, Obama the Usurper , was about to enact. A multi-bankrupt, reality TV star and known money launderer named Trump continually stated Obama wasn't an American, and attempted to find anything, no matter how delusional, to support that claim.

In case you were unaware, the Democrats needed 60 votes in the Senate for anything that wasn't just passing what the House passed, and they had 60 votes for approximately 14 months. And for those 14 months, it wasn't continuous. Throw in the fact that the Democratic Party is a big tent party and are not right-wing authoritarians who vote lock-step with each other, and you get 8 years of Republicans saying no from the minority, and getting their way.

Ask Mitch McConnell about Merrick Garland if you've never heard of him.

Obama stumbled into a Republican roadblock like none ever before. You can speculate as to why. Those of us with common sense know exactly why.

About Rmoney and Haley becoming "resurgent"... did you land on earth last week?

The Republican Base did everything they could to kick Rmoney's ass to the curb in 2012, and everything they could to get The Realest Republican, Donald Trump, as their candidate.

They have no interest in governance. They are only interested in putting libruuls in their place, which means destroying the entire country in the process.

But keep on telling us about that Republican resurgence into sanity. You sound like David Brooks, and you'll be just as wrong about reality as him, too.

 

[woolfe9998]

Guys no, it’s that if you’re willing to pay a lot more money you get better health insurance.

It’s not better for the average person, it’s worse. For wealthy people it genuinely is better though and that’s okay.

Yes, I got that, and I'm telling you that "better" private health insurance is not better than Medicare. It's more or less on par. Maybe a few very high end plans, typically reserved for executives, are a little better because they pay for things like health club memberships.

I know this because my wife and I are self-employed and we buy on the individual market off the exchanges. This year, we pay $1,000 per month EACH for a plan that requires us to pay the first $1500 of our medical care every year out of our own pockets. This is a serious financial burden even on two upper middle class salaries.

 

[cliftonite]

I still think Biden is an underdog. If you were to look @ my towns facebook page (in the middle of NJ), there are way more Trump supporters vs Biden. I have a feeling it is like this in much of the country.