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I Don't Know If Joe Can Do It

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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,544
12,088
136
After a lifetime in a safe Dem state watching this election in TX where...

The Dems look like this:





And The GOP looks like this:




...is extremely weird.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
5,522
5,517
136
The only deep state is systemic republican corruption attempting to invalidate legal votes of tens of thousands Americans.
Yes .. The real answer is that the Deep State is made up by Trump specifically to serve as a reason why he needs more power, and an excuse for why why previous grants of such power haven’t made everyone’s lives better. Trump needs to cast himself as a strong and competent and smart and good man being thwarted by a powerful enemy, because the results of his administration prove what he actually is – a weak and incompetent and foolish evil man.

My question was directed at Trump followers...And how they reconcile Trumps failure to stop the "Deep State"

Trump ran for office claiming that he could outthink, outdeal, and outmanuever any opposition that was thrown at him. That was the center of his campaign: he was somebody who could get things done. Nobody could stop him. So for him to say that Deep State isn’t letting him do things is undermining his reputation as the "toughest guy" and shows him as weak.

How can somebody believe every politician is corrupt and dishonest - and then decide Donald Trump is the sole exception? How do these people come to believe that Trump is somehow the one politician who they can place their full trust in? What is it about Trump that makes people believe him when they don’t believe somebody like Ted Cruz who is saying the same things?

Republican efforts to court pack Republican judges in the court system are essentially an effort to create a Deep State. They want to use the court system to maintain Republican control over the government even if they get voted out of office. So Republicans are clearly not opposed to the idea of having a Deep State; they just object when they don’t own it.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
6,851
5,801
136
Biden wins if polls are off by 5 nationwide...
Guess I wasn't so delusional when I said:
If you look at 2016 polls of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, right before the election, most of them put Clinton up by 3-7%.

You can blame Comey for the drop, but from Clinton +5% to Trump +1% makes me believe polls of those states were shit.

Now, in 2020, you have all of the various bullshit that is going to go down, so I give Trump +5% to just about any swing state. So if Biden is up +7%, I give 5% of that to Trump, and typically the result is that the difference between Trump and Biden is in the margin of error.

What I think isn't delusional. It's worst case scenario, which I can't imagine why everyone else isn't already using in 2020.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,544
12,088
136
My previous and now growing suspicion is that Biden rakes back a lot of white voters.
 

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
9,902
1,750
126
I didn’t know but I’m damn happy now. Damn happy. If nothing else I hope this thread kept us on our toes.
 
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ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,322
930
106
You don't have to wonder anymore.

Color it done. :D
Still have to go through all the lawsuits and recounts. I was glad to see Penn go to Biden, since that means a much stronger cushion should some of the closer races like Ga go the other way on recount (not expecting that, but you never know). Also gives Biden a somewhat stronger mandate than if he had only gotten 270 like it appeared for a while he might. I am hoping Az and Nv hold up and Biden gets 307, the same margin that Trump got, but Biden will have the popular vote also.

I am sure that the hardcore Trumpers never will be convinced that the election was not rigged, though.
 

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,585
1,648
136
Still have to go through all the lawsuits and recounts. I was glad to see Penn go to Biden, since that means a much stronger cushion should some of the closer races like Ga go the other way on recount.
Recounts do not change the totals by even as much as the Georgia margin is. They would need to find a great deal of issues for that to happen. There are too many checks and balances, unlike the reporting at FAUX Nuz.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,397
25,185
136
Recounts do not change the totals by even as much as the Georgia margin is. They would need to find a great deal of issues for that to happen. There are too many checks and balances, unlike the reporting at FAUX Nuz.
Yes, unless there's some systemic error recounts change the count of votes by the hundreds, not the thousands. Especially considering Biden's lead in Georgia is likely to grow modestly that is very likely to put it out of recount range.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,175
652
126
Still have to go through all the lawsuits and recounts. I was glad to see Penn go to Biden, since that means a much stronger cushion should some of the closer races like Ga go the other way on recount (not expecting that, but you never know). Also gives Biden a somewhat stronger mandate than if he had only gotten 270 like it appeared for a while he might. I am hoping Az and Nv hold up and Biden gets 307, the same margin that Trump got, but Biden will have the popular vote also.

I am sure that the hardcore Trumpers never will be convinced that the election was not rigged, though.
As others said, recounts aren't the issue. The scenario you want to avoid is winning 270-268 because Trump will try to get the tipping point's GOP state legislature to send its own slate of electors to subvert the popular vote. I'm not saying this will happen, but it had been openly discussed and was always a possibility if the election was razor-close. Trump isn't just giving up just because he will lose the certified counts. He'll use any measures at his disposal, by hook or by crook, as the saying goes.

We're lucky that Trump plays checkers while a few people accuse him of playing 4D chess. I don't remember who said it on NBC News soon after election night, but Trump should've sued on election night to stop mail-in vote counting. Of course, he'd have been laughed out of court, but the idea is that he needed to stop the counting. You can't uncount votes, so even waiting half a day and letting the process continue unabated was the wrong strategic move. If you're going to falsely accuse fraud and try to subvert the will of the people, you should do so when it's most advantageous to you.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
6,851
5,801
136
As others said, recounts aren't the issue. The scenario you want to avoid is winning 270-268 because Trump will try to get the tipping point's GOP state legislature to send its own slate of electors to subvert the popular vote. I'm not saying this will happen, but it had been openly discussed and was always a possibility if the election was razor-close. Trump isn't just giving up just because he will lose the certified counts. He'll use any measures at his disposal, by hook or by crook, as the saying goes.

We're lucky that Trump plays checkers while a few people accuse him of playing 4D chess. I don't remember who said it on NBC News soon after election night, but Trump should've sued on election night to stop mail-in vote counting. Of course, he'd have been laughed out of court, but the idea is that he needed to stop the counting. You can't uncount votes, so even waiting half a day and letting the process continue unabated was the wrong strategic move. If you're going to falsely accuse fraud and try to subvert the will of the people, you should do so when it's most advantageous to you.
Also, if it's 270-268, then all it takes is 3 faithless electors and it's four more years of the open tinpot fascist.

We're not out of the woods until 12:01pm on January 20th.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,397
25,185
136
As others said, recounts aren't the issue. The scenario you want to avoid is winning 270-268 because Trump will try to get the tipping point's GOP state legislature to send its own slate of electors to subvert the popular vote. I'm not saying this will happen, but it had been openly discussed and was always a possibility if the election was razor-close. Trump isn't just giving up just because he will lose the certified counts. He'll use any measures at his disposal, by hook or by crook, as the saying goes.

We're lucky that Trump plays checkers while a few people accuse him of playing 4D chess. I don't remember who said it on NBC News soon after election night, but Trump should've sued on election night to stop mail-in vote counting. Of course, he'd have been laughed out of court, but the idea is that he needed to stop the counting. You can't uncount votes, so even waiting half a day and letting the process continue unabated was the wrong strategic move. If you're going to falsely accuse fraud and try to subvert the will of the people, you should do so when it's most advantageous to you.
I have read up on this and apparently this threat is almost certainly unconstitutional. The basic logic is that the legislature could have passed a law to give all the electors to Trump BEFORE the election but they can't change their mind after the election because it didn't turn out the way they wanted.
 
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ewdotson

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2011
1,295
1,517
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Also, if it's 270-268, then all it takes is 3 faithless electors and it's four more years of the open tinpot fascist.

We're not out of the woods until 12:01pm on January 20th.
The electors vote on 14 December, so that *should* be the drop-dead date for any issues.
 
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Saylick

Golden Member
Sep 10, 2012
1,065
983
136
Also, if it's 270-268, then all it takes is 3 faithless electors and it's four more years of the open tinpot fascist.

We're not out of the woods until 12:01pm on January 20th.
Not even that. It just takes 1 faithless elector to swing from Biden to Trump and you'd end up with 269-269, at which it goes to a simple vote where each State has 1 vote, and we all know how that would end up...
 

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