I am now part of the elite V8 club.

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: mtnd3vil
+Forced induction does not require high RPMs to be useful. Almost every turbocharged car on the market right now is tuned to have LOW RPM torque it's greatest attribute.

+"Remember turbo-lag"
I love how you preface this question. REMEMBER. Yes I do remember turbo lag, from 10 years ago when it existed.

Wait, what? Low RPM = lower exaust gas volume. Lower volume = lower power increase from the turbo. The Higher the RPM the higher you can get the pressure from the turbo. More pressure, more power. That is just physics. Engineers can compensate for it by using variable vane and different size or dual turbos, but the issue wil always be there.

Same thing with turbo lag. It has always existed, and will always exist to some degree; though thankfully it is being lessened though engeneering so the power differential is more controllable.

You made some excellent points before mtnd3vil, but now you seem to just be digging yourself a deeper hole. May I suggest you brush up on your automotive knowledge and come back at a later date. Or at least be prepared to eat crow.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

"We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a saltshaker half-full of cocaine, and a whole multi colored collection of uppers, downers, laughers, screamers... Also, a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether, and two dozen amyls"

That is a quote from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, from a guy who's taken a ton of drugs.

"Because force induction requires high RPM's to achieve high HP. Also forced induction has very very very crappy torque. Remember Turbo LAG????

That is a quote from someone who has obviously taken even more.

Forced induction has very crappy torque? My 3 liter engine has forced induction and put 389 ft lbs of torque down to the rear wheels. You will never find a naturally aspirated car of similar displacement make that kind of torque.

Increasing manifold pressure increases the effective displacement of the engine. At 14.7 psi, you're forcing twice as much fuel/air into the cyldinders than a naturally aspirated engine can ingest. Likewise, its torque will increase proportionally.

And forced induction needs high RPMs to achieve high horsepower? You're on crack. Since horsepower and RPM are intrinsicly linked, ANY engine that revs higher will make more horsepower. It's in the formula. Remember, HP= (Tq x rpm)/5252. But to completely contradict what you just said, since a forced induction engine makes much more torque than a naturally aspirated engine, the opposite of what you said is true. A forced induction engine, with its greater torque, will make higher HP at a given RPM. It doesn't have to come up high, for a Grand National makes 355 lbs of torque by 2000 rpm.

Did someone just get owned?

I agree with everything you said......however.........


For the price of the VG30DTT longblock I can get an Ls1 & t56 which will weigh less. Comparing just the displacement really doesn't fly. I would also have more immediate torque and not have the replacement cost of turbos. Again who really cares about the engine size........

 

[Vortec4800]

Originally posted by: Colt45
im part of the german I5 turbo club, with the efficency of a v8 :-/

Older Audi S6 perhaps?

 

[mtnd3vil]

I don't claim to know it all. And in the last wave of posters, I have a lot of respect for many of you, and what you've contributed.

I'm very interested to find out about VVT and multi-valve technology being used with 'cam-in-block'. If my statement was completely false about this not existing, I'm sorry.

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: mtnd3vil

Here's a question:
Two engines--which is one has greater peak power?

Engine 1
5.0L V-8
228 HP
300 Lb.Ft.


Engine 2
5.0L V-8
285 HP
300 Lb. Ft.

Answer- they have the same peak power. Engine 1 has it's maximum power at 4000RPM and engine 2 has it's maximum power at 5000RPM. This single varriation is what gives engine 2 50 more HP.

Please learn about cars

The answer to your question is that engine 2 has more horsepower. If it has 285 hp compared to engine 1's 228 hp, how the hell do you think they have the same amount of horsepower?

They have the same peak torque, NOT the same peak power.

There is a lack of terminology for describing 'torque' in terms of engines. I realize now why saying 'power' leads people to think I am talking about 'horsepower'.

Engines 1 and 2 (from my example) are equally as strong of engines. You can't say that one of them is stronger than the other. Most people would say that engine 2 is clearly the better engine, this is simply not the case--It's also the point I was making.





Also sorry about the misquote (drpootums). Not sure how that happened.

Thank you all
mtnd3vil

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: mtnd3vil


I'm very interested to find out about VVT and multi-valve technology being used with 'cam-in-block'. If my statement was completely false about this not existing, I'm sorry.

VVT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Value_engine

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: mtnd3vil
I don't claim to know it all. And in the last wave of posters, I have a lot of respect for many of you, and what you've contributed.

I'm very interested to find out about VVT and multi-valve technology being used with 'cam-in-block'. If my statement was completely false about this not existing, I'm sorry.

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: mtnd3vil

Here's a question:
Two engines--which is one has greater peak power?

Engine 1
5.0L V-8
228 HP
300 Lb.Ft.


Engine 2
5.0L V-8
285 HP
300 Lb. Ft.

Answer- they have the same peak power. Engine 1 has it's maximum power at 4000RPM and engine 2 has it's maximum power at 5000RPM. This single varriation is what gives engine 2 50 more HP.

Please learn about cars

The answer to your question is that engine 2 has more horsepower. If it has 285 hp compared to engine 1's 228 hp, how the hell do you think they have the same amount of horsepower?

They have the same peak torque, NOT the same peak power.

There is a lack of terminology for describing 'torque' in terms of engines. I realize now why saying 'power' leads people to think I am talking about 'horsepower'.

Engines 1 and 2 (from my example) are equally as strong of engines. You can't say that one of them is stronger than the other. Most people would say that engine 2 is clearly the better engine, this is simply not the case--It's also the point I was making.





Also sorry about the misquote (drpootums). Not sure how that happened.

Thank you all
mtnd3vil

torque

n.

1. The moment of a force; the measure of a force's tendency to produce torsion and rotation about an axis, equal to the vector product of the radius vector from the axis of rotation to the point of application of the force and the force vector.
2. A turning or twisting force.


t = r * F, where t = torque, r = vector from axis of rotation, and F = force vector


Power is the amount of work done per unit of time, therefore: Power = t * angular speed

Because a horsepower is equivalent to lifting 33,000 lb-ft per min. and (in this case) must be expressed in radians, and 33,000 lb-ft per min./2p = 5,252, therefore:

Horsepower = (t * rpm)/5252


Kindly get your mathematical relationships between power and torque correct if you are going to discuss them in a car thread, thank you.

Engine 2 has more hp because it is able to produce more torque at a higher rpm than is Engine 1, meaning that it is capable of producing the same amount of work but in shorter periods of time, and thus it is the more powerful engine.

editted for minor typos and clarification

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Do I get to be in a special group because I have a 500hp v-8 that still gets 27mpg highway???

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: mtnd3vil
+Forced induction does not require high RPMs to be useful. Almost every turbocharged car on the market right now is tuned to have LOW RPM torque it's greatest attribute.

+"Remember turbo-lag"
I love how you preface this question. REMEMBER. Yes I do remember turbo lag, from 10 years ago when it existed.

Wait, what? Low RPM = lower exaust gas volume. Lower volume = lower power increase from the turbo. The Higher the RPM the higher you can get the pressure from the turbo. More pressure, more power. That is just physics. Engineers can compensate for it by using variable vane and different size or dual turbos, but the issue wil always be there.

Same thing with turbo lag. It has always existed, and will always exist to some degree; though thankfully it is being lessened though engeneering so the power differential is more controllable.

You made some excellent points before mtnd3vil, but now you seem to just be digging yourself a deeper hole. May I suggest you brush up on your automotive knowledge and come back at a later date. Or at least be prepared to eat crow.

Come on now. What is high RPM? My 2.0 litre Impreza produced peak torque 242lb/ft @ 3000 rpm. Is that high RPM? I don't think so. It's higher than normal due to the size of the snail, but it came on at 2.5k RPM. My mate had a '93 Leagcy turbo that had no boost till 4k RPM. The blower was even bigger/heavier.

My M3 doesn't come on song until over 4k RPM WITHOUT A TURBO.

The VW/Audi 1.8T's come on at a near ridiculous 1.5k RPM, but run out of puff @5k. Again, not 'high RPM'.

The Turbo application varies due to so many variables you cannot simply say they need high RPM or that they don't. It varies so much.

Then there is the twin-turbo installations that have a small and a large turbo...

 

[bluestrobe]

Any way to make my 86 F350 4X4 with a 460ci more of a fuel economy environmental friendly vehicle?

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Any way to make my 86 F350 4X4 with a 460ci more of a fuel economy environmental friendly vehicle?

stop driving it?

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Any way to make my 86 F350 4X4 with a 460ci more of a fuel economy environmental friendly vehicle?

stop driving it?

I still don't think that'll do much. I'm pretty sure they drink gas while standing still and turned off. You'll have to drain the tank and shoot it.

 

[bluestrobe]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: bluestrobe
Any way to make my 86 F350 4X4 with a 460ci more of a fuel economy environmental friendly vehicle?

stop driving it?

I was kidding. It sits in the drive way and maybe leaves the property once a month. Its a project truck of mine and not a daily driver.

 

[palindrome]

I was pwned

 

[imported_Scourge]

Originally posted by: palindrome
Wow, I see so much talk about American V8's and V6's.... such a waste of metal... Its amazing how a mustang can have a V8 and only push 300HP.... while the car weighs 3700lbs!! Urgh, I hate American cars (for the most part, I do love the classics). I saw another guy bragging about the SHO Taurus engine... yeah, you forgot the sh!tty transmission that came along with it. Those craptastic vehicles had to new a new tranny every 60k miles like clockwork... Everyone, do yourself a favor and get something from Europe (not from France dummy...) or Japan (Japan does not mean KOREA!!!!! Hyundai and Kia are NOT Japanese).

I love my Z32 300ZX and will keep it as long as possible. FYI, there are few things every 300ZX needs in order to operate at its peak.
-cross-drilled/slot-drilled rotors (car weighs about 3400lbs...)
-a spoiler to keep the tires on the road (NO NOT A CIVIC SPOILER!)
-take out the spare tire
-ceramic high performance breaks
-light-weight alloy rims
-something other than the stock stereo and speakers.... even if you have the Bose premium sound.. it still sucks
-anything you can do to lighten the car

bah, I wish I wasnt poor... so many thing I want to do to my car (like a carbon fiber trunk and hood or a Borla Exhaust **drool**)

sorry i got carried away there....

You're an idiot.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: palindrome
FYI, there are few things every 300ZX needs in order to operate at its peak.
-cross-drilled/slot-drilled rotors (car weighs about 3400lbs...)
-a spoiler to keep the tires on the road (NO NOT A CIVIC SPOILER!)
-take out the spare tire
-ceramic high performance breaks
-light-weight alloy rims
-something other than the stock stereo and speakers.... even if you have the Bose premium sound.. it still sucks
-anything you can do to lighten the car
.

:roll:

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: palindrome
Wow, I see so much talk about American V8's and V6's.... such a waste of metal... Its amazing how a mustang can have a V8 and only push 300HP.... while the car weighs 3700lbs!! Urgh, I hate American cars (for the most part, I do love the classics). I saw another guy bragging about the SHO Taurus engine... yeah, you forgot the sh!tty transmission that came along with it. Those craptastic vehicles had to new a new tranny every 60k miles like clockwork... Everyone, do yourself a favor and get something from Europe (not from France dummy...) or Japan (Japan does not mean KOREA!!!!! Hyundai and Kia are NOT Japanese).

I love my Z32 300ZX and will keep it as long as possible. FYI, there are few things every 300ZX needs in order to operate at its peak.
-cross-drilled/slot-drilled rotors (car weighs about 3400lbs...)
-a spoiler to keep the tires on the road (NO NOT A CIVIC SPOILER!)
-take out the spare tire
-ceramic high performance breaks
-light-weight alloy rims
-something other than the stock stereo and speakers.... even if you have the Bose premium sound.. it still sucks
-anything you can do to lighten the car

bah, I wish I wasnt poor... so many thing I want to do to my car (like a carbon fiber trunk and hood or a Borla Exhaust **drool**)

sorry i got carried away there....

LOL

yes, a new stereo and speakers really keep the car running in top tune. :roll:

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: palindrome
Wow, I see so much talk about American V8's and V6's.... such a waste of metal... Its amazing how a mustang can have a V8 and only push 300HP.... while the car weighs 3700lbs!! Urgh, I hate American cars (for the most part, I do love the classics). I saw another guy bragging about the SHO Taurus engine... yeah, you forgot the sh!tty transmission that came along with it. Those craptastic vehicles had to new a new tranny every 60k miles like clockwork... Everyone, do yourself a favor and get something from Europe (not from France dummy...) or Japan (Japan does not mean KOREA!!!!! Hyundai and Kia are NOT Japanese).

I love my Z32 300ZX and will keep it as long as possible. FYI, there are few things every 300ZX needs in order to operate at its peak.
-cross-drilled/slot-drilled rotors (car weighs about 3400lbs...)
-a spoiler to keep the tires on the road (NO NOT A CIVIC SPOILER!)
-take out the spare tire
-ceramic high performance breaks
-light-weight alloy rims
-something other than the stock stereo and speakers.... even if you have the Bose premium sound.. it still sucks
-anything you can do to lighten the car

bah, I wish I wasnt poor... so many thing I want to do to my car (like a carbon fiber trunk and hood or a Borla Exhaust **drool**)

sorry i got carried away there....

See sig.

 

[bluestrobe]

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: palindrome
FYI, there are few things every 300ZX needs in order to operate at its peak.
-cross-drilled/slot-drilled rotors (car weighs about 3400lbs...)
-a spoiler to keep the tires on the road (NO NOT A CIVIC SPOILER!)
-take out the spare tire
-ceramic high performance breaks
-light-weight alloy rims
-something other than the stock stereo and speakers.... even if you have the Bose premium sound.. it still sucks
-anything you can do to lighten the car
.

:roll:

Also might want to add a cell phone so you can call a friend or your daddy to come bring your spare tire to you. Also the drilled rotors aren't that way for weight.

 

[mtnd3vil]

Hey--I'm just glad someone stole the spotlight.



.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: palindrome
FYI, there are few things every 300ZX needs in order to operate at its peak.
-cross-drilled/slot-drilled rotors (car weighs about 3400lbs...)
-a spoiler to keep the tires on the road (NO NOT A CIVIC SPOILER!)
-take out the spare tire
-ceramic high performance breaks
-light-weight alloy rims
-something other than the stock stereo and speakers.... even if you have the Bose premium sound.. it still sucks
-anything you can do to lighten the car
.

:roll:

Also might want to add a cell phone so you can call a friend or your daddy to come bring your spare tire to you. Also the drilled rotors aren't that way for weight.

My car doesn't have a spare. It came like that from the factory.

 

[bluestrobe]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: palindrome
FYI, there are few things every 300ZX needs in order to operate at its peak.
-cross-drilled/slot-drilled rotors (car weighs about 3400lbs...)
-a spoiler to keep the tires on the road (NO NOT A CIVIC SPOILER!)
-take out the spare tire
-ceramic high performance breaks
-light-weight alloy rims
-something other than the stock stereo and speakers.... even if you have the Bose premium sound.. it still sucks
-anything you can do to lighten the car
.

:roll:

Also might want to add a cell phone so you can call a friend or your daddy to come bring your spare tire to you. Also the drilled rotors aren't that way for weight.

My car doesn't have a spare. It came like that from the factory.

What year is yours then? I googled and found that Z32 300ZX are listed as having spare tires. Its very rare for most cars not to have some sort of spare tire or flat tire replacement.

 

[franksta]

Welcome to the club. I've been an official member for 6 years.

I'm also a member of the sub-2.0 flat-4 aircooled and the inline-5 turboed clubs.

 

[kevman]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: raildogg
I am part of the Japanese V-6 club. Are we elite too?

No.

Aww :brokenheart:

How about an Japanese V8?

 

[MasterAndCommander]

Originally posted by: palindrome
Wow, I see so much talk about American V8's and V6's.... such a waste of metal... Its amazing how a mustang can have a V8 and only push 300HP.... while the car weighs 3700lbs!! Urgh, I hate American cars (for the most part, I do love the classics). I saw another guy bragging about the SHO Taurus engine... yeah, you forgot the sh!tty transmission that came along with it. Those craptastic vehicles had to new a new tranny every 60k miles like clockwork... Everyone, do yourself a favor and get something from Europe (not from France dummy...) or Japan (Japan does not mean KOREA!!!!! Hyundai and Kia are NOT Japanese).

I love my Z32 300ZX and will keep it as long as possible. FYI, there are few things every 300ZX needs in order to operate at its peak.
-cross-drilled/slot-drilled rotors (car weighs about 3400lbs...)
-a spoiler to keep the tires on the road (NO NOT A CIVIC SPOILER!)
-take out the spare tire
-ceramic high performance breaks
-light-weight alloy rims
-something other than the stock stereo and speakers.... even if you have the Bose premium sound.. it still sucks
-anything you can do to lighten the car

bah, I wish I wasnt poor... so many thing I want to do to my car (like a carbon fiber trunk and hood or a Borla Exhaust **drool**)

sorry i got carried away there....

Peak HP means nothing...it's torque that gets you off the line.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: bluestrobe

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: palindrome
FYI, there are few things every 300ZX needs in order to operate at its peak.
-cross-drilled/slot-drilled rotors (car weighs about 3400lbs...)
-a spoiler to keep the tires on the road (NO NOT A CIVIC SPOILER!)
-take out the spare tire
-ceramic high performance breaks
-light-weight alloy rims
-something other than the stock stereo and speakers.... even if you have the Bose premium sound.. it still sucks
-anything you can do to lighten the car
.

:roll:

Also might want to add a cell phone so you can call a friend or your daddy to come bring your spare tire to you. Also the drilled rotors aren't that way for weight.

My car doesn't have a spare. It came like that from the factory.

What year is yours then? I googled and found that Z32 300ZX are listed as having spare tires. Its very rare for most cars not to have some sort of spare tire or flat tire replacement.

It's a Nissan M3.