How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC

[futurefields]

Were talking a system with a 200 watt psu right?

 

[Sohaltang]

I've taken apart a fat PS3 (80GB partial-BC unit) and a fat 360 (12GB non-HDMI unit), so I've seen their cooling. The PS3 uses a rather large fan that sits on top, which is why it has that big ol' hump. The 360 uses a really small fan (I'd guess around 40mm) in the back that pulls the air through the fins on the heatsinks. The PS3 seems to be a bit quieter than the 360.

As for the current models, I still find that the PS3 is quieter than the 360, and consequently, I prefer using the PS3 for Netflix.

No. The hump is from the bluray drive and HD sitting on the MB. The MB is upside down and the fan is on the bottom. The fan is almost the size of the entire bottom of the ps3.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Were talking a system with a 200 watt psu right?

The ps4 will defy the laws of physics due to being able to code to metal. Oh and optimizations too.
It's true because I've read it in this thread.

 

[cmdrdredd]

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+3+Teardown/1260/1

PS3 teardown pictures for the fat one

 

[BrightCandle]

The ps4 might have good bandwidth but its still sharing that with 8 CPU cores. They are going to suck a lot of that bandwidth, especially since its GDDR which has a higher latency. What worries me most is the 8 cores. I think 4 cores that were faster would have been a better choice. Its really difficult to make game simulations multiple thread capable,like impossibly hard. I worry that many of those cores will go ideal just as they do on PCs today. Plenty of PC exclusives fail to get above 2 cores of usage, even if they do show benefits to 4 cores its not often much.

 

[alcoholbob]

This.

The PS4 will probably still render in 720P for many games and upscale to 1080P. Even for 1080P titles, you will probably see minimal AA and framerates targeting as solid 30fps, not 60.

When 4K TVs start becoming the norm, forget it. There will be no native 4K titles for the PS4 unless they drop AA and target 30fps, with much of the eye-candy disabled.

It will be a solid system, but nothing special. Throw a 3570k (or Haswell equivalent at the end of the year) + 7950/770 for ~$500 and you will have a better system. You can always add another GPU (or 2) if you want to keep the eye-candy and go 4K on the computer, you don't have that ability on the PS4.

Edit: I bought a PS3 shortly after launch and definitely enjoyed it. It looked like crap compared to my computer setup though. Shiny textures, poor AA, and 1080P (upscaled) resolution on a huge monitor compared to a computer setup. Recent titles are definitely improved, but computers have been WAY ahead for years now, so it's definitely not impressive any more.

There isn't a content delivery system for 4K right now anyway, and you are right forget about the PS4, not because of the GPU, but because Blu Ray disc format isn't even close to the 100-150GB discs needed for 4K content.

 

[alcoholbob]

So, majority of PC gaming is solitaire?

 

[itsmydamnation]

So a PS4 gpu will have 32x the performance due to a larger queue, is that what we are assuming now?

The entire PS4 system is going to operate at less wattage than a desktop gpu alone.

Raw performance will be comparitively low, games will depend on optimizations to look as good as a gaming PC.

No way around the psu equation.

Moving data is expensive, PS4 has much better ways of moving data then a PC. more efficiency within a given budget gives more performance for that budget.

 

[Lepton87]

For many people a PS4 is all they need. Blu-Ray, some online surfing and connectivity, play games without fiddling with drivers.

For others like myself, you may be better off with kb/mouse when making things like spreadsheets, word docs, photo editing, etc. You don't need to spend $1k to build a very powerful PC. Time sales right and recycle hardware from previous builds when possible.

1k$ only buys you a high-end GPU, not to mention a whole very powerful computer. I think you would need two such cards to call that computer really powerful which is already 2K USD. The whole computer would easily cost north of 3k USD.

Also the division between the CPU/GPU is also silly, they really should be one in the same piece of silicon. Which is slowly happening.
.

How do you see putting Titan which is already 561mm2 with a CPU that is 200/300mm2+ and cool that? that chip would dissipate 350W+ and probably be close to the limit to what's possible to manufacture, like 700mm2+

 

[cmdrdredd]

1k$ only buys you a high-end GPU, not to mention a whole very powerful computer. I think you would need two such cards to call that computer really powerful which is already 2K USD. The whole computer would easily cost north of 3k USD.


How do you see putting Titan which is already 561mm2 with a CPU that is 200/300mm2+ and cool that? that chip would dissipate 350W+ and probably be close to the limit to what's possible to manufacture, like 700mm2+

What? You can easily grab a sub $200 7870 and rock with that at 1080p. Where do you get $1k? Or hell even a 7950 is $270 on sale with what, 7 games for free?

 

[mj79]

Im sure its been mentioned... But why are people even comparing a $500 game console to a full blown Gaming PC? I saw someone mention a titan GPU.. Isn;t that a $1000 card alone? Not really apples to apples here.. Considering a gaming console need a , what? 8 year shelf life per generation?

THEN I see people saying well, PS4 may have a advantage for the first year or two, lol then what? You upgrade your $1000 GPU again?? Not really fair to me , but I guess thats how I see it... If you want it to be fair, Make a $500 Gaming computer... The best Gaming computer you can make in 2013 , and we will see how it compares..


By always comparing a newly upgraded modern PC to a gaming system, is just dumb..

Or to make it even more fair.. COmpare a $4000 Gaming rig from 2005, and see how it compares to the PS4, since alot of people like to talk about Upgrading vs 8 yr old technology

 

[rgallant]

"Im sure its been mentioned... But why are people even comparing a $500 game console to a full blown Gaming PC? I saw someone mention a titan GPU.. Isn;t that a $1000 card alone?"
-and you get your $$2k tv for free to hook the console to [can't use the wall????[ got to love mom's

 

[blastingcap]

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+3+Teardown/1260/1

PS3 teardown pictures for the fat one

Thanks for the link. I see it's built sort of like a heavy-duty laptop.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Im sure its been mentioned... But why are people even comparing a $500 game console to a full blown Gaming PC? I saw someone mention a titan GPU.. Isn;t that a $1000 card alone? Not really apples to apples here.. Considering a gaming console need a , what? 8 year shelf life per generation?

THEN I see people saying well, PS4 may have a advantage for the first year or two, lol then what? You upgrade your $1000 GPU again?? Not really fair to me , but I guess thats how I see it... If you want it to be fair, Make a $500 Gaming computer... The best Gaming computer you can make in 2013 , and we will see how it compares..


By always comparing a newly upgraded modern PC to a gaming system, is just dumb..

Or to make it even more fair.. COmpare a $4000 Gaming rig from 2005, and see how it compares to the PS4, since alot of people like to talk about Upgrading vs 8 yr old technology

Thread title : How the Playstation 4 is better than a PC.

It's not

 

[AnandThenMan]

Thread title : How the Playstation 4 is better than a PC.

It's not

If you understand the context, yes it is.

 

[mj79]

"Im sure its been mentioned... But why are people even comparing a $500 game console to a full blown Gaming PC? I saw someone mention a titan GPU.. Isn;t that a $1000 card alone?"
-and you get your $$2k tv for free to hook the console to [can't use the wall????[ got to love mom's

?? This post makes no sense

 

[cmdrdredd]

If you understand the context, yes it is.

We already proved you wrong. What more do you want?

Locked hardware, slower specifications, by the time games look on par with Crysis 3 at max on a PC using PS4 hardware we will be 2-3 generations further on CPU and GPU power on the PC.

The title says PC in general. Not low end or mid range PC. So we can include SLI and Titan hardware. Remember, people with a $500 console probably have a TV that cost $1500. SO that's $2k. I can build a PC with a titan or GTX 690 for that.

 

[MrK6]

The PS4 and your average enthusiast gaming PC are two very different machines that share some middle ground in the tasks that they aim to accomplish. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. What a pointless discussion this has become.

 

[Sohaltang]

We already proved you wrong. What more do you want?

Locked hardware, slower specifications, by the time games look on par with Crysis 3 at max on a PC using PS4 hardware we will be 2-3 generations further on CPU and GPU power on the PC.

The title says PC in general. Not low end or mid range PC. So we can include SLI and Titan hardware. Remember, people with a $500 console probably have a TV that cost $1500. SO that's $2k. I can build a PC with a titan or GTX 690 for that.

No because you gotta hook it back to that "1500$ TV" are you gonna play it on the wall? Or at 24 inches? Lol. So you have 500$. Build me a PC that "plays crysis 3 on max settings" for 1000$ or 1500$ with a monitor. Even if you can, its not gonna compete in the market that has purchased 80 million PS3s (160 million with 360).

Your not proving anybody wrong.

 

[Arkaign]

The PS4 and your average enthusiast gaming PC are two very different machines that share some middle ground in the tasks that they aim to accomplish. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. What a pointless discussion this has become.

This 10000x.

Fanboys on all sides are hella annoying.

 

[Olikan]

So a PS4 gpu will have 32x the performance due to a larger queue, is that what we are assuming now?

No way around the psu equation.

CGN uses 4 queue... so it's 16x more efficient

the interesting part, is that GCN 2.0 can issue one comand line per ALU, while GCN 1.0 is one comand is per SIMD...

let's say that a instructions use only one ALU...
IN GCN 1.0....we have 15 ALUs wasted in each SIMD
IN GCN 2.0....no ALUs will be wasted, since it's SIMD independent

interesting? .... for sure :biggrin:
but don't expect much... GPUs have buffers and Instructions like that are VERY rare

 

[exar333]

Ugh, is it Q4 yet? Can't wait to see the system launched with crap games and the discussion shift to 'in the next 1-2 years we will REALLY start to see the potential, just be patient...' This system will equivalent to a ~$800 PC. Good deal, but a PS4 can't do any work...I would rather have the PC and be able to do 1000x more things for a little more $$$. The reason the PS4 is less in the first place is because it will be entirely sold at cost...

 

[Sleepingforest]

No because you gotta hook it back to that "1500$ TV" are you gonna play it on the wall? Or at 24 inches? Lol. So you have 500$. Build me a PC that "plays crysis 3 on max settings" for 1000$ or 1500$ with a monitor. Even if you can, its not gonna compete in the market that has purchased 80 million PS3s (160 million with 360).

Your not proving anybody wrong.

Yessir, I can show you a build that runs Crysis 3 at max settings, 60 frames per second at 1080p which includes the monitor for $1800 (not to mention faster load times because of the SSD). The 670s in SLI should be able to handle Very High quality):

CPU: Intel Core i5-3470 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($183.56 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI Z77MA-G45 Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($47.20 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($152.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.92 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PNY GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($351.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PNY GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($351.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Antec Eleven Hundred ATX Full Tower Case ($109.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic M12II 750W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($80.00 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($95.25 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Dell U2312HM 23.0" Monitor ($224.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1802.86
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-26 23:39 EDT-0400)

Or, if you prefer, a build that merely exceeds a Playstation 3 (can play at 1080p/60 frames per second at all, as seen here):

CPU: Intel Core i5-3470 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($183.56 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI Z77MA-G45 Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($47.20 @ Newegg)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($152.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.92 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PNY GeForce GTX 680 2GB Video Card ($440.78 @ Amazon)
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($44.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($95.25 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Dell U2312HM 23.0" Monitor ($224.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1444.66
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-04-26 23:44 EDT-0400)

 

[Sohaltang]

Lol@23 inches. Include something that will make me turn off my 63 inch samsung. Hooray you did best a ps4 for only 1444$. Good job. Point proven.

I still need my wifi, bluray, touch screen wireless controller, 7.1, Bluetooth?

 

[Sleepingforest]

Your WiFi is latency-free enough for gaming? And your PS4 came with a 7.2 setup? Damn, get me in on that!

More seriously: your 63" offers roughly the same screen real estate if you think about the distances involved: 2 feet versus 10-20 feet away from the screen. Bluetooth and Wifi, if you feel the need for either, are only $10 each for a USB dongle. And the PS4 controller is basically guaranteed to be PC compatible for whatever the cost is. I mean, you've added on like $70 to the cost if you demand those things. And the PC is, as you've admitted, still offers a better looking game.