How the PlayStation 4 is better than a PC

[AnandThenMan]

People are just being realistic. It's all PR. Remember how amazing Cell was gonna be?

I remember it clearly. And people with half a brain knew that Sony was full of crap with their claims. This round, if you actually listen and comprehend what is being said about the PS4 from multiple developers (never mind what Sony says) you get a very clear idea as to why the PS4 has tremendous potential.

It was gonna deliver the performance of a NASA supercomputer in your living room or some other hyperbole. Riiiight.

And we're hearing the same thing about the PS4. Oh wait no we're not.

The only concrete information we have are specs: a weak CPU and a midrange GPU, at least they didn't cheap out on the ram this time. We'll see what they get out of it. But I find it highly unlikely this will keep up with the performance of 20nm GPU's that will be releasing next year.

No it's very possible actually, again READ and learn. The actual game developers are saying the PS4 coded directly to the metal will be able to realize performance 2-3x higher than the same spec'd silicon on the PC side. Do you think they are lying? Paid off? Or maybe they actually know something.

But of course we will hear again how a Titan SLI uber rig will beat the PS4 hands down.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I remember it clearly. And people with half a brain knew that Sony was full of crap with their claims. This round, if you actually listen and comprehend what is being said about the PS4 from multiple developers (never mind what Sony says) you get a very clear idea as to why the PS4 has tremendous potential.

Developers say the exact same thing as they did with the PS3.

 

[Rakehellion]

WTF...The xbox 360 was unmatched... you must be on crack or something.

A 7800 GTX 512MB, which released right around the same time frame, could pump out playable frame rates at 2048x1536 with MSAA.

Where the hell do you see the xbox 360 doing anything like that? 30 FPS at 1280x720 with no AA... unmatched... LOL

Yeah, no. Just no. http://www.anandtech.com/show/1996/4

"At the very high end, in our most strenuous benchmark, $1200 of graphics cards will buy you less than 50 fps on average."

Compare that to a $300 Xbox 360.

 

[Rakehellion]

Developers say the exact same thing as they did with the PS3.

This.

Why do people with zero experience in computer engineering like to spread their ignorance about hardware specs?

 

[Ajay]

Developers say the exact same thing as they did with the PS3.

Yeah, they said that based on the specs, then when they tried to reach those peak FLOPS, it was a different story. I imagine that the PS4 will be relatively easy to code for, without having to do back flips to get decent performance out of CELL. I imagine developers are likely to be feeling more euphoric after their PS3 experiences. Apparently, Sony totally reworked the development tool-chain, this could have a huge impact on developer productivity and will be a big deal to developers it's Sony got it right. We'll have a lot more data by the end of the year.


As to the OP - Apple and Oranges.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Windows takes 3-4X overhead compared to the ps4?

Maybe we should be using the ps4 OS? Obviously Microsoft should hire the guys developing the ps4 as they can make a OS 4x faster than Microsoft themselves.

 

[AnandThenMan]

So let's assume the hardware in the PS4 is slow and outdated as some are insisting. So to those people, what should Sony have done instead? Be specific and tell us exactly what the hardware in the PS4 should be.

Windows takes 3-4X overhead compared to the ps4?

Maybe we should be using the ps4 OS? Obviously Microsoft should hire the guys developing the ps4 as they can make a OS 4x faster than Microsoft themselves.

I don't think you understand the nature of an OS that has only specific tasks, and an OS with legacy support that is designed to work with thousands of combinations of hardware, and is saddled by layers of inefficiency.

 

[blckgrffn]

So let's assume the hardware in the PS4 is slow and outdated as some are insisting. So to those people, what should Sony have done instead? Be specific and tell us exactly what the hardware in the PS4 should be.

I don't think you understand the nature of an OS that has only specific tasks, and an OS with legacy support that is designed to work with thousands of combinations of hardware, and is saddled by layers of inefficiency.

Real time OS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_operating_system

Windows is not real time. PS4 operating system is. They have different goals and strengths. They are built for different purposes.

That they would have different performance characteristics is not hard to fathom.

*struggles to find good supporting evidence that PS3 is real time. I swear I've read it in developer materials over at gamasutra...)

 

[ShintaiDK]

Windows takes 3-4X overhead compared to the ps4?

Maybe we should be using the ps4 OS? Obviously Microsoft should hire the guys developing the ps4 as they can make a OS 4x faster than Microsoft themselves.

Be careful you dont think 3-4x performance. Because that couldnt be further from reality.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yeah, they said that based on the specs, then when they tried to reach those peak FLOPS, it was a different story. I imagine that the PS4 will be relatively easy to code for, without having to do back flips to get decent performance out of CELL. I imagine developers are likely to be feeling more euphoric after their PS3 experiences. Apparently, Sony totally reworked the development tool-chain, this could have a huge impact on developer productivity and will be a big deal to developers it's Sony got it right. We'll have a lot more data by the end of the year.

I am sure you are right there, we will see more data and also better performing PC ports. But the last part will just undermine the PS4 further. On the good side we will see more games.

 

[Puppies04]

I don't doubt the PS4 will be capable of a higher level of graphics than most PC's will be able to handle at launch. An SLI Titan rig is going to have enough horse power to over power most of the advantages a console has.

This amazes me, a $200 2 year old GPU will overpower any of the new consoles running at the same crappy settings they use. Why you feel the need to bring a $1000 GPU that will have more graphical power than 4 PS 4's is beyond me.

 

[R0H1T]

Be careful you dont think 3-4x performance. Because that couldnt be further from reality.

Yeah that number is a bit exaggerated, but really how do you define that overhead & its not quantifiable in anyway that I know of ?

 

[JAG87]

Yeah, no. Just no.

"At the very high end, in our most strenuous benchmark, $1200 of graphics cards will buy you less than 50 fps on average."

Compare that to a $300 Xbox 360.

LMAO. Yes because we all know that the console versions of games look and run exactly the same as their PC version.... My god, this is not even worthy of my time to reply.

 

[Arkadrel]

This amazes me, a $200 2 year old GPU will overpower any of the new consoles running at the same crappy settings they use. Why you feel the need to bring a $1000 GPU that will have more graphical power than 4 PS 4's is beyond me.

What GPU can you buy, not used, for less than 200$ that matches a 7850?

Even if you do, say find a nvidia 480 or something,
It wouldnt perform the same as the PS4 because on a PC you cant code to metal.

 

[Olikan]

Developers say the exact same thing as they did with the PS3.

pfff...i didn't even had to dig much

"The Top 21 Tech Screwups of 2006"

"The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think it's really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted" GabeN

"kotick slams PS3 for "high" dev costs"

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yeah that number is a bit exaggerated, but really how do you define that overhead & its not quantifiable in anyway that I know of ?

Even if the PC had close to infinity overhead compared to consoles. Then consoles might be 10-20% faster. People wastly underestimate Windows.

 

[ShintaiDK]

pfff...i didn't even had to dig much

"The Top 21 Tech Screwups of 2006"

"The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think it's really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted" GabeN

"kotick slams PS3 for "high" dev costs"

Did any of those actually develop PS3 games?

Lets look back in time for an example:

“With the new generation PlayStation platform, we can create “GUNDAM WORLD” with the quality no one has ever imagined. The philosophy, connecting millions of Cell together, makes reality get closer to the world of SF films. We are delighted to share the vision of Ken, ARCHITECT, Kutaragi.”
-Shin Unozawa, Managing Director, Leader, Game Software Group, President, Video Game Company, BANDAI CO.,LTD.
“The PLAYSTATION 3 has us really excited! So much so in fact that we are already working our hardest to get Devil May Cry 4 out for this new platform. New hardware always yields more options for developers to create exciting and fresh gameplay experiences. I believe that the PS3 is one piece of hardware that will test the mettle of our development team and help us to create some of the most amazing games, limited only by our imagination.”
-Keiji Inafune, Managing Executive Officer, Research & Development Division, Capcom Co., Ltd.
“Each generation of PlayStation has made a dramatic improvement in how we create and play videogames. PLAYSTATION 3 will be a breakthrough in how the world experiences entertainment. EA is fully aligned with Sony Computer Entertainment – we share their vision and applaud their success. ”
-Larry Probst, Chairman and CEO, Electronic Arts
“President Kutaragi has thrown down a gauntlet. That gauntlet is called the PLAYSTATION 3. We here at KOEI have gladly taken up the challenge, and are striving day and night to take full advantage of all the PS3's new possibilities. Our goal is to combine cutting-edge technology with a full range of artistic expression to deliver the ultimate form of entertainment, and please people everywhere.”
-Keiko Erikawa, Chairman & C.E.O., KOEI Co., Ltd.
“With the arrival of the next generation computer entertainment system PLAYSTATION 3, I believe it will be possible for graphic expressions, more beautiful than before, to coexist with more deep and evolved game play which utilize the Cell architecture. I also have high expectations for the evolution by the online features that will be enhanced. We will utilize the features of the new platform and will strive to create contents that will bring new excitement for our users world wide, so please have high hopes for Konami. ”
-Kazumi Kitaue, CEO, Konami Digital Entertainment, Inc.
“Each time SCEI launches a console, the video games business moves to the next level. With PLAYSTATION 3 it looks as if it might be time for interactive entertainment to become, finally, the world's dominant artistic medium. ”
-Sam Houser, President, Rockstar Games (Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc.)
“We at Namco have used and will continue to use the advancements in audio-visual technology to deliver games that are not only appealing to the eyes and ears, but that stir emotions, speak to the heart, and remain in players’ minds for years to come. We are confident that the PLAYSTATION 3 is an entertainment system that will enable us to do just that.”
-Shigeru Yokoyama, CT Company President, Namco Ltd.
“Next-generation hardware platforms will enable SEGA to create new game concepts that offer more immersive interactive experiences. SEGA continues to pursue the fusion of creativity and technology by publishing only the best, more innovative content to gamers around the world.”
-Hisao Oguchi, President and Chief Operating Officer, SEGA Corporation
“Square Enix is extremely honored to have had the chance to provide you with this technical demonstration of what the Cell processor can bring to the PLAYSTATION 3 and the world of gaming. We are committed to fully backing SCEI’s new computer entertainment system and plans to bring the FINAL FANTASY series to the PS3 are just beyond the horizon.”
-Yoichi Wada, President, SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. “Ubisoft was one of the first major international developers to have its teams start focusing on next generation consoles. We are looking forward to developing outstanding games on Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.’s new system. Its powerful features will help take the industry to an even higher level in the very near future.”
-Yves Guillemot, President and CEO, Ubisoft

 

[NTMBK]

http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2013/01/11/the-impending-console-hangover

PC gaming is the future, not consoles.

I'm pretty unconvinced by that article- the majority of that PC pile comes from "F2P & SNS", aka people playing 10 minutes of Farmville.

I would like to think that PC gaming is the future- the amount of power that console manufacturers have isn't really healthy. It's even worse than Apple's App Store power grab. A vibrant PC market with multiple free and open sources of games is the best thing. But I don't think that consoles are going away any time soon.

 

[Olikan]

serial killer wall of text is an assasin.... :O

didn't read... but was just pointing that the PS3 lunch wasn't really rainbows, unicorns and happiness

 

[ShintaiDK]

serial killer wall of text is an assasin.... :O

didn't read... but was just pointing that the PS3 lunch wasn't really rainbows, unicorns and happiness

Neither is the PS4. Point was that its the same PR as always from the companies that are locked to the consoles. And people hype it every time.

 

[Aikouka]

woha...people still think that PS4 can't hande 1080p ?
why? the gpu can, the bandwidth allow...the cpu is irrelevant

(bolding is my own...)



That's really dependent on what game you're talking about, but no matter which game, the CPU is definitely required to perform certain actions before a frame is ready to be rendered. To call it irrelevant is very short-sighted.

 

[-Slacker-]

Then add bluray, decoder software, OS, wifi adapter, 7.1,Bluetooth, a wireless controller, and up the drive to 500 GB or so. Then have it arrived built in a tiny form factor that average joe can plug and play. One year of support and free diagnostics. It's gotta be relatively quiet and pull no more than 200 watts. Build it for 500$ and Ill order 2 tonight.

Everyone has an OS. You don't need to buy a new copy every time you buy a new machine. Bluray players add very little advantage on a PC in terms of gaming and, I would argue, very little advantage in general; Most gamers buy games digitally and, even if they don't, the inconvenience of swapping dvds happens once during installation; Not worth complaining about.

Furthermore, there are roughly 70 billion different decoding programs that are available for free on windows.

A wireless controller is simply the standard control method of a ps4, and a kb+mouse is the standard control method on a PC; Neither method is a plus in one platform's favor.

A wifi adapter is like $10 ... not exactly stretching your wallet there.

Next you go on listing things that were never part of the discussion (i.e. can you build a gaming pc for 600 dollars that can run games at the same or a higher graphics fidelity than a ps4), all the while ignoring features that are available on PC but not on a console.

If there's anything that I missed, let me know, but this time try not to raise the goal post again.

 

[Schmide]

Real time OS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_operating_system

Windows is not real time. PS4 operating system is. They have different goals and strengths. They are built for different purposes.

That they would have different performance characteristics is not hard to fathom.

*struggles to find good supporting evidence that PS3 is real time. I swear I've read it in developer materials over at gamasutra...)

I really don't think you can support the number of features the PS4 has and still call it realtime. The amount of virtual memory mapping is enough to pull the rug out from under this assumption!

 

[DaveSimmons]

No it's very possible actually, again READ and learn. The actual game developers are saying the PS4 coded directly to the metal will be able to realize performance 2-3x higher than the same spec'd silicon on the PC side. Do you think they are lying? Paid off? Or maybe they actually know something.

Yes, but it's 2-3 the "same spec'd silicon" which is slow CPU cores and a midrange at best GPU.

It will be nice, but not necessarily "better than a PC" if that PC has faster Intel cores and a better GPU.

Thief will be running at only 30 fps according the the links just posted, not a smooth 60 fps. If the PS4 was going to demolish a high end PC then I'd expect more from it.

 

[Sohaltang]

Really? bluray decoding is free? So that's why WiiU skipped the bluray playback even though the system reads bluray games. I'm pretty sure it's like 10$ for bluray and 15$ for DVD. Even windows 8 does not include these "free" decodes. Blueray is necessary if your gonna play games directly off the disk. Only a few games require a partial install on ps3. Most games play in 90 seconds after inserting disk. Unlike many PC titles that expect you to install 40 GB of data. That's gonna fill up the 250gb disk thats in the deal real quick.

The quote you reply to is a responce to a NEW PC build off new egg. So YES you need an OS. Average joe is not buying a ps4 to do anything except play games and media so the other PC functions are not relevent in this "build a better PC than a ps4" discussion. Like I said if someone can deliver a 600$ better than ps4 PC for my kids room Ill order 2 today.