How Scared is the GOP of an Obama win?

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111
Partially, but only because they've been sheltered and have really never had to work for much of anything. When someone fails at something their instinct has been to cry about unfairness rather than give someone a kick in the ass.

I have 2 nephews: both majored in sociology or something similar. 1 has already boomeranged back to his parents house and the other is on his way to doing so. It's sad really.

Are you suggesting there are no poor people who have to work hard to get out of their condition anymore?

The 'poor' people in this generation are running around with I-phones.

What's making them poor? They don't pay much for healthcare. They're better educated than previous generations.

ZOMG! Really!?


This argument is older than you are. I already covered it in another thread too. When you see any of these people with something that appears way out of their price range it is because of one of the following reasons:

1. They saved up for it for a really long time. Much much longer compared to most.
2. It was given to them as a gift or at least mostly paid for as a gift from family/friends.
3. They used credit that they should never have been given in the first place.
4. They stole it or they used money that they earned illegally such as selling drugs.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111
Partially, but only because they've been sheltered and have really never had to work for much of anything. When someone fails at something their instinct has been to cry about unfairness rather than give someone a kick in the ass.

I have 2 nephews: both majored in sociology or something similar. 1 has already boomeranged back to his parents house and the other is on his way to doing so. It's sad really.

Are you suggesting there are no poor people who have to work hard to get out of their condition anymore?

The 'poor' people in this generation are running around with I-phones.

What's making them poor? They don't pay much for healthcare. They're better educated than previous generations.

They can even eat cake.

I hope you die of a treatable cancer because you don't have money for care.

Yes, and if they don't like it, well, we will revive the guillotine. A few lost heads will quiet the unwashed masses. And we could do what Cromwell did, hang their heads on lampposts.

-Robert

I don't really want him to die of cancer, only to feel what it's like having wished on him what he's really wishing on others.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

But a trillion dollar war is good. Just so you know where your priorities lay.

Don't like the war either. Love to get out of both wars and use the money to balance the budget. This government gets more than enough money right now. It is time to get spending under control.

So the Republicans get to spend wildly and only kill people in the process, but the democrats are now not allowed to spend for people's health because of this?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: T2T III

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: T2T III

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: T2T III
Scared? Hell yeah, I'm scared. :frown:

What exactly are you scared of? Just trying to gain some insight.

Several reasons:

1) More smaller business will either fail due to tax increases, or they'll have to curb the hiring of employees - and may even lay more of them off.

2) People who are not currently paying taxes, but will receive "Demfare" checks which will be disguised as tax credits. This will weaken the ability and desire for one to further advance themself.

3) The "real" Obama will appear. He's done a great job of keep calm, cool and collected; people love the view of him now, but what will the future bear?

4) Suppression of freedom of speech for networks who question any of his decisions or practices (as already witnessed via Joe Biden's) responses to date.

5) Joe Biden's "firecracker" temper.

1) Uhh, "smaller businesses" get a tax break under Obama. WTF have you been?

2) Didn't Bush and McCain send $700+ checks to damn never everyone in America this summer? "Demfare" indeed.

3) Completely and utter speculative FUD. Are you also worried that McCain's secret - and completely unfounded - anti-Jew streak will come to fruit? :roll:

4) ... what?

5) Man, with that temper of his, he could really cast an angry tie-breaking senate vote! Oh noes!

--------------------------

You're not too bright, are you? I could give you a better list of reasons not to elect Obama, and I'll probably vote for the guy!

1) Probable Democratic majority in house + Democratic President leads to things getting done a bit too quickly.

2) Has shown that by not accepting public finance, not filibustering, etc, he sometimes goes back on his word. Sure, they sometimes seems like good decisions, but if so, then stop making promises too quickly before you have all the facts!

3) Bigger government.

4) Pushed for the atrocious bailout package.


But all that said, I could give you a list 10x as long as to why McCain (at least the 2008 version of the guy) should not win, either.

Oh, I forgot - you're the guy with all of the knowledge. One that can fix all the ills of the World, cure cancer as well as many other miracles. :frown:

Umm.. what?

No, seriously. What are you talking about? Are you drunk? High? Stupid? Some combination of the 3?

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111
Partially, but only because they've been sheltered and have really never had to work for much of anything. When someone fails at something their instinct has been to cry about unfairness rather than give someone a kick in the ass.

I have 2 nephews: both majored in sociology or something similar. 1 has already boomeranged back to his parents house and the other is on his way to doing so. It's sad really.

Are you suggesting there are no poor people who have to work hard to get out of their condition anymore?

The 'poor' people in this generation are running around with I-phones.

What's making them poor? They don't pay much for healthcare. They're better educated than previous generations.

Yes, but their iPhones are less than 1% of their GDP, so it's not real money.

-Robert

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

You wouldn't have any change if you already have health insurance. Stop with the fear and smearing nonsense.

This current crisis is an experiment in pure capitalism, and even though the stock market has been cut in half and people have lost 50% of their life savings, obviously we must fear something new!

Nope I watched the whole DNC convention and I heard over and over UHC. You saying the democrats will break the promise of UHC? The democratic party wants to take over my healthcare. They want to tax this shit out of me for some second rate medicare level coverage.

I'm saying that that is not Obama's plan and he will be the leader of their policy.

Additionally, even in a complete UHC system like Canada, you can choose personal coverage and your own doctors instead, if you don't like it.

Stop the fear and smear nonsense.

50 million people have no healthcare coverage.. you don't want them to even have a chance because of fear of change.. stop the garbage.

Sure for the rich they can have personal coverage. The rest of us will be stuck with second rate health care. Of those 50 million how many are young people who choose not to get insurance or illegals? You going to pay for cancer treatments for all of south America? The second UHC is passed millions will cross the boarder for free expensive treatments on my tax dollar. Any UHC plan will cost 2 to 3 times as much as any other country because of the illegals and population in such poor health.

 

[Rustler]

Obama said that you grow the ecomony from the bottom up...........I never got a job from a po person...............I am not personally scared to have him as President.........

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

You wouldn't have any change if you already have health insurance. Stop with the fear and smearing nonsense.

This current crisis is an experiment in pure capitalism, and even though the stock market has been cut in half and people have lost 50% of their life savings, obviously we must fear something new!

Nope I watched the whole DNC convention and I heard over and over UHC. You saying the democrats will break the promise of UHC? The democratic party wants to take over my healthcare. They want to tax this shit out of me for some second rate medicare level coverage.

I'm saying that that is not Obama's plan and he will be the leader of their policy.

Additionally, even in a complete UHC system like Canada, you can choose personal coverage and your own doctors instead, if you don't like it.

Stop the fear and smear nonsense.

50 million people have no healthcare coverage.. you don't want them to even have a chance because of fear of change.. stop the garbage.

Sure for the rich they can have personal coverage. The rest of us will be stuck with second rate health care. Of those 50 million how many are young people who choose not to get insurance or illegals? You going to pay for cancer treatments for all of south America? The second UHC is passed millions will cross the boarder for free expensive treatments on my tax dollar. Any UHC plan will cost 2 to 3 times as much as any other country because of the illegals and population in such poor health.

How many legitemately want insurance and CANNOT POSSIBLE GET IT, PERIOD? Like, umm, I don't know.. people like my family and I? I guess we should be screwed because some uninsured people in your assumptions wouldn't need it?

You purposely make assumptions to support your own position.

My wife is 25, 6'7 and weighs 135.. she never gets as much as a cold but because of some moronic "syndrome" they diagnosed her with, that she doesnt even need medication for, she was denied coverage by every provider in the state, PERIOD.

And we still have to pay $5k a year for catastrophic only.

But I guess since some people don't need it, some of us should be screwed... also, it works for you, so I guess screw the rest of us!

I'd rather average insurance for everyone vs some having good and some having none.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

But a trillion dollar war is good. Just so you know where your priorities lay.

Don't like the war either. Love to get out of both wars and use the money to balance the budget. This government gets more than enough money right now. It is time to get spending under control.

So the Republicans get to spend wildly and only kill people in the process, but the democrats are now not allowed to spend for people's health because of this?

Exactly 10 trillion in the hole means there is no money for any new expensive projects. This is the democrats fault they could of put up anyone but kerry in 2004 and stopped bush. Now if you get the boarders and budget under control we can talk UHC. The government has already fucked up SS,Medicare and Medicaid. No way I want them to be in charge of my health care. The government has not earned that right. I trust the evil insurance companies more than this corrupt government.

 

[Rustler]

Why is it that so many people from Canada come here for sugery and procedures that their Socalized medicine won't take care of...............and an added bonus if you are elderly and get a disease socalized medicine can choose not to treat you............and if it is a terminal illness then there is lots of tax revenue from the death tax...........

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

But a trillion dollar war is good. Just so you know where your priorities lay.

Don't like the war either. Love to get out of both wars and use the money to balance the budget. This government gets more than enough money right now. It is time to get spending under control.

So the Republicans get to spend wildly and only kill people in the process, but the democrats are now not allowed to spend for people's health because of this?

Exactly 10 trillion in the hole means there is no money for any new expensive projects. This is the democrats fault they could of put up anyone but kerry in 2004 and stopped bush. Now if you get the boarders and budget under control we can talk UHC. The government has already fucked up SS,Medicare and Medicaid. No way I want them to be in charge of my health care. The government has not earned that right. I trust the evil insurance companies more than this corrupt government.

It is the democrats' fault because they had a bad nominee, not the republicans who controleld congress for 12 years and had a supermajority for 6... and therefore we should all suffer and the democrats should have restrictions? Right.

You trust the companies that won't give my family insurance... The same ones that would have no problem denying people cancer treatment, etc. There will be a special place for your fear mongering selfishness in the afterlife.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Funny you ask. I applied the estimated % tax increase on the top 1% of America if Obama's plans go through to my own gross income and you know what I found out? I found out that I would be able to get along just fine without even having to change my lifestyle and my families total gross income is less than 6 figures.

If I can do it without changing my lifestyle while making less than 6 figures gross then anyone making over 250k profit most certainly can do it and let's not even begin to talk about the top 1% that pulls in something like 8-11 figures.

That wasn't the question.

How much of YOUR money are giving to help this 'greatest progression' that you speak so highly about??

And in case you aren't paying attention that $250,000 figure is slowly dropping.
Paul Krugman

What about the claim, based on Joe the Plumber?s complaint, that ordinary working Americans would face higher taxes under Mr. Obama? Well, Mr. Obama proposes raising rates on only the top two income tax brackets ? and the second-highest bracket for a head of household starts at an income, after deductions, of $182,400 a year.

Joe Biden

What we?re saying is that $87 billion tax break doesn?t need to go to people making an average of 1.4 million, it should go like it used to. It should go to middle class people ? people making under $150,000 a year.?

We started at $250,000 according to Obama, but now it is down to $150,000. How much lower do you think it will get??

In case you forgot, Bill Clinton promised a middle class tax CUT and then turned around and RAISED taxes on nearly everyone. Considering the size of the current deficit and the spending plans Obama has he is either going to have to raise taxes or reduce his spending plan, which one do you think he'll do?

Are you asking what % of my check goes towards taxes? I don't have an exact number of what I give because I don't keep an accurate record of my donations.



Other points:

1. Bill Clinton is not Obama. (yes yes yes I know you will retort with McCain isn't Bush but I never said he was).

2. Obama said the tax increase will go to the top 2 income brackets but he did not specify that he would tax the entire 2nd highest income bracket in that quote you mentioned. However, he has specified that he plans to draw the line at 250k. Sounds to me like he plans to tax everyone in the top income bracket and a fraction of those in the 2nd highest bracket starting with those who make 250k.

3. Biden specifies that the tax break should go to those make under 150k. How does that get translated into increasing taxes for everyone above 150k?

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Rustler
Why is it that so many people from Canada come here for sugery and procedures that their Socalized medicine won't take care of...............and an added bonus if you are elderly and get a disease socalized medicine can choose not to treat you............and if it is a terminal illness then there is lots of tax revenue from the death tax...........

It isn't "so many".. it is the few rich. PERIOD.

How many here die because they were denied coverage or couldn't get insurance?

Yeah, let's err with the dieing, so a few could get the "best" that money could buy.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: quest55720
Sure for the rich they can have personal coverage. The rest of us will be stuck with second rate health care. Of those 50 million how many are young people who choose not to get insurance or illegals? You going to pay for cancer treatments for all of south America? The second UHC is passed millions will cross the boarder for free expensive treatments on my tax dollar. Any UHC plan will cost 2 to 3 times as much as any other country because of the illegals and population in such poor health.

Illegals already get free health care except it is much more expensive because they are currently only left with the option of going to the emergency room. Give them health care so that they can visit general practitioners and you will see the costs go down.

My proof is my own eyes. I live in south florida. Shall I describe to you what happens at the hospitals down here and what it costs thanks to them having no other choice when little Jose gets very ill and needs medical attention? I don't think I need to.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

But a trillion dollar war is good. Just so you know where your priorities lay.

Don't like the war either. Love to get out of both wars and use the money to balance the budget. This government gets more than enough money right now. It is time to get spending under control.

So the Republicans get to spend wildly and only kill people in the process, but the democrats are now not allowed to spend for people's health because of this?

Exactly 10 trillion in the hole means there is no money for any new expensive projects. This is the democrats fault they could of put up anyone but kerry in 2004 and stopped bush. Now if you get the boarders and budget under control we can talk UHC. The government has already fucked up SS,Medicare and Medicaid. No way I want them to be in charge of my health care. The government has not earned that right. I trust the evil insurance companies more than this corrupt government.

It is the democrats' fault because they had a bad nominee, not the republicans who controleld congress for 12 years and had a supermajority for 6... and therefore we should all suffer and the democrats should have restrictions? Right.

You trust the companies that won't give my family insurance... The same ones that would have no problem denying people cancer treatment, etc. There will be a special place for your fear mongering selfishness in the afterlife.

Congress can put in health care for people in your situation. The rest of us should not have to suffer with crappy UHC. This country has unique circumstances that prevent UHC from ever working until they change. Any UHC would either bankrupt the country or triple the tax rate to pay for it. You triple the tax rate and you bankrupt many people and force them on the street.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: chess9
It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years.

-Robert

That's sadly true for the most part. The generation born from 1980-1990 grew up on Barney and Pokemon and little league games where 'everyone wins'. Apparently, the boomers have raised a generation even more decadent and useless than themselves.

Get the fuck over yourself. :roll:

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Your crap is the war.. and it hasn't been paid for..

War is cheaper than healthcare.

Tell that to the families of the dead. :roll:

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

But a trillion dollar war is good. Just so you know where your priorities lay.

Don't like the war either. Love to get out of both wars and use the money to balance the budget. This government gets more than enough money right now. It is time to get spending under control.

So the Republicans get to spend wildly and only kill people in the process, but the democrats are now not allowed to spend for people's health because of this?

Exactly 10 trillion in the hole means there is no money for any new expensive projects. This is the democrats fault they could of put up anyone but kerry in 2004 and stopped bush. Now if you get the boarders and budget under control we can talk UHC. The government has already fucked up SS,Medicare and Medicaid. No way I want them to be in charge of my health care. The government has not earned that right. I trust the evil insurance companies more than this corrupt government.

It is the democrats' fault because they had a bad nominee, not the republicans who controleld congress for 12 years and had a supermajority for 6... and therefore we should all suffer and the democrats should have restrictions? Right.

You trust the companies that won't give my family insurance... The same ones that would have no problem denying people cancer treatment, etc. There will be a special place for your fear mongering selfishness in the afterlife.

Congress can put in health care for people in your situation. The rest of us should not have to suffer with crappy UHC. This country has unique circumstances that prevent UHC from ever working until they change. Any UHC would either bankrupt the country or triple the tax rate to pay for it. You triple the tax rate and you bankrupt many people and force them on the street.

That is exactly Obama's plan, if you watched the debates. Give an option for affordable healthcare THAT DOES NOT EXCLUDE PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS. Everyone else can keep their insurance and he will give incentives for small business to insure people.

There you go.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: quest55720
Sure for the rich they can have personal coverage. The rest of us will be stuck with second rate health care. Of those 50 million how many are young people who choose not to get insurance or illegals? You going to pay for cancer treatments for all of south America? The second UHC is passed millions will cross the boarder for free expensive treatments on my tax dollar. Any UHC plan will cost 2 to 3 times as much as any other country because of the illegals and population in such poor health.

Illegals already get free health care except it is much more expensive because they are currently only left with the option of going to the emergency room. Give them health care so that they can visit general practitioners and you will see the costs go down.

My proof is my own eyes. I live in south florida. Shall I describe to you what happens at the hospitals down here and what it costs thanks to them having no other choice when little Jose gets very ill and needs medical attention? I don't think I need to.

No it won't because instead of stablizing treatments or emergency treatments. You will be giving away cancer treatments that can cost millions per person. The boarder will flood the second UHC passes. Anyone in south america with a bad disease will come across the boarder getting millions in free treatments.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: quest55720

No it won't because instead of stablizing treatments or emergency treatments. You will be giving away cancer treatments that can cost millions per person. The boarder will flood the second UHC passes. Anyone in south america with a bad disease will come across the boarder getting millions in free treatments.

They could already do that now. What's the difference? Again, as has been repeatedly mentioned, we already have UHC, just the worst version of UHC that could ever be thought of. Even if you were right about our UHC costing double or more than what it does in other countries (which is pretty unlikely) we would STILL probably be paying less than we are now.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

They will blame it on McCain and the moderates who have now jumped ship. The next republican nominee will be an ultra conservative right of newt. It sucks the republicans do the right thing and ditch the religious right and get rewarded by getting killed in the election. They will take that as they need to go hard core to the right on all issues.

Ditch the religious right? Are you serious? Two words: Sarah Palin

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

But a trillion dollar war is good. Just so you know where your priorities lay.

Don't like the war either. Love to get out of both wars and use the money to balance the budget. This government gets more than enough money right now. It is time to get spending under control.

So the Republicans get to spend wildly and only kill people in the process, but the democrats are now not allowed to spend for people's health because of this?

Exactly 10 trillion in the hole means there is no money for any new expensive projects. This is the democrats fault they could of put up anyone but kerry in 2004 and stopped bush. Now if you get the boarders and budget under control we can talk UHC. The government has already fucked up SS,Medicare and Medicaid. No way I want them to be in charge of my health care. The government has not earned that right. I trust the evil insurance companies more than this corrupt government.

It is the democrats' fault because they had a bad nominee, not the republicans who controleld congress for 12 years and had a supermajority for 6... and therefore we should all suffer and the democrats should have restrictions? Right.

You trust the companies that won't give my family insurance... The same ones that would have no problem denying people cancer treatment, etc. There will be a special place for your fear mongering selfishness in the afterlife.

Congress can put in health care for people in your situation. The rest of us should not have to suffer with crappy UHC. This country has unique circumstances that prevent UHC from ever working until they change. Any UHC would either bankrupt the country or triple the tax rate to pay for it. You triple the tax rate and you bankrupt many people and force them on the street.

That is exactly Obama's plan, if you watched the debates. Give an option for affordable healthcare THAT DOES NOT EXCLUDE PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS. Everyone else can keep their insurance and he will give incentives for small business to insure people.

There you go.

That might be the Obama plan but it is not the Pelosi/Reid/Kennedy plan. Obama does not have the guts to veto a UHC plan. With 58-60 seats in the senate UHC is coming if Obama wins on Tuesday. And crippling taxes is coming with it.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: quest55720

That might be the Obama plan but it is not the Pelosi/Reid/Kennedy plan. Obama does not have the guts to veto a UHC plan. With 58-60 seats in the senate UHC is coming if Obama wins on Tuesday. And crippling taxes is coming with it.

GUYS DON'T VOTE FOR OBAMA BECAUSE OF SOME STUFF I MADE UP ABOUT WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO LATER.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

They will blame it on McCain and the moderates who have now jumped ship. The next republican nominee will be an ultra conservative right of newt. It sucks the republicans do the right thing and ditch the religious right and get rewarded by getting killed in the election. They will take that as they need to go hard core to the right on all issues.

Ditch the religious right? Are you serious? Two words: Sarah Palin

McCain was not from the religious right and not supported by him... Sarah Palin was his attempt at an olive branch, but that doesn't mean that conservatives won't see the 2008 failings as indicative of the fact that they need to be MORE entrenched with the RR, blaming McCain's loss on his lack of evangelical connections.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

But a trillion dollar war is good. Just so you know where your priorities lay.

Don't like the war either. Love to get out of both wars and use the money to balance the budget. This government gets more than enough money right now. It is time to get spending under control.

So the Republicans get to spend wildly and only kill people in the process, but the democrats are now not allowed to spend for people's health because of this?

Exactly 10 trillion in the hole means there is no money for any new expensive projects. This is the democrats fault they could of put up anyone but kerry in 2004 and stopped bush. Now if you get the boarders and budget under control we can talk UHC. The government has already fucked up SS,Medicare and Medicaid. No way I want them to be in charge of my health care. The government has not earned that right. I trust the evil insurance companies more than this corrupt government.

It is the democrats' fault because they had a bad nominee, not the republicans who controleld congress for 12 years and had a supermajority for 6... and therefore we should all suffer and the democrats should have restrictions? Right.

You trust the companies that won't give my family insurance... The same ones that would have no problem denying people cancer treatment, etc. There will be a special place for your fear mongering selfishness in the afterlife.

Congress can put in health care for people in your situation. The rest of us should not have to suffer with crappy UHC. This country has unique circumstances that prevent UHC from ever working until they change. Any UHC would either bankrupt the country or triple the tax rate to pay for it. You triple the tax rate and you bankrupt many people and force them on the street.

That is exactly Obama's plan, if you watched the debates. Give an option for affordable healthcare THAT DOES NOT EXCLUDE PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS. Everyone else can keep their insurance and he will give incentives for small business to insure people.

There you go.

That might be the Obama plan but it is not the Pelosi/Reid/Kennedy plan. Obama does not have the guts to veto a UHC plan. With 58-60 seats in the senate UHC is coming if Obama wins on Tuesday. And crippling taxes is coming with it.

Don't make assumptions on Obama's abilities.

Canada/England only pay an extra 6% in taxes for uhc and that covers everything. We paid 17% of our income on full insurance when we had it.