How Scared is the GOP of an Obama win?

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111
My tax dollars are scared.

Why? Are you afraid that the Democrats might require you to pay for all the crap your party's been buying over the last eight years? Responsibility: try it some time.

The Dems aren't going to require squat. When was the last time a Democratic Congress passed a balanced budget? Go look that up and get back to us. People need to stop pretending the Dems oppose deficit spending - they merely object to how the money is spent. Obama and the Democratically-controlled Congress aren't going to do anything about the deficit, any more than the GOP did or would've done. Power is maintained by either party through passing out political favors, and that mostly means monetary benefits. The Dems are no different.

The 5 trillion added to the debt under the Bush/Republican regime suggests there is a qualitative difference in quantity. The Democrats are fiscally irresponsible to an extent. Republicans are fiscally irresponsible beyond all imagination, that is a significant difference. "Deficits don't matter".

So we both agree both parties are driving the country off a cliff, fiscally speaking. All you're saying is, Party D is better because we'll be take longer to reach the edge - that's just splitting hairs. I reject both Party D and Party R if the only difference is the speed at which we're approaching oblivion. I'm looking for a new party which actually wishes to change direction.

It isn't splitting hairs.. it is being realistic.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: chess9
It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years.

-Robert

That's sadly true for the most part. The generation born from 1980-1990 grew up on Barney and Pokemon and little league games where 'everyone wins'. Apparently, the boomers have raised a generation even more decadent and useless than themselves.

Those damn kids! :roll:


Seriously man, how much more of a generalization with shitty justification can you possibly make? You are pointing fingers and placing blame on stuff just because it makes you feel better and not because you actually know anything about it.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: chess9
It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years.

-Robert

That's sadly true for the most part. The generation born from 1980-1990 grew up on Barney and Pokemon and little league games where 'everyone wins'. Apparently, the boomers have raised a generation even more decadent and useless than themselves.

So it is the young generation's fault even though young people rarely vote or affect elections and all of our leaders are old?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111
No, I'm worried that the Democrats might require me to pay for somebody else's crap. They're already doing it at the state and local levels.

Your crap is the war.. and it hasn't been paid for..

War is cheaper than healthcare.

Hmmm well given the choice...

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

This election is more a failure of McCain and his crappy campaign than W. Most of the 'failed policies' of W's presidency occurred in his first term, not his second.

Did bush have any policies in his second term? except stay the course in iraq?

Immigration and social security reform. Neither worked, so not really. Clinton didn't do anything in his second term either; he just happened to be lucky enough to leave months before a financial crisis and recession hit rather than months after.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111
My tax dollars are scared.

Why? Are you afraid that the Democrats might require you to pay for all the crap your party's been buying over the last eight years? Responsibility: try it some time.

No, I'm worried that the Democrats might require me to pay for somebody else's crap. They're already doing it at the state and local levels.

Your crap is the war.. and it hasn't been paid for..

War is cheaper than healthcare.

I'd rather spend on twice the cost of the war to actually help people rather than create a more destabilized world, and leading to the deaths of 10s, if not 100s of thousands..

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: chess9
It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years.

-Robert

That's sadly true for the most part. The generation born from 1980-1990 grew up on Barney and Pokemon and little league games where 'everyone wins'. Apparently, the boomers have raised a generation even more decadent and useless than themselves.

kim kardashian, paris hilton, britney spears, ...

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: T2T III
Scared? Hell yeah, I'm scared. :frown:

As a Republican, what aren't you scared of, I think is a better question,

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: chess9
It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years.

-Robert

That's sadly true for the most part. The generation born from 1980-1990 grew up on Barney and Pokemon and little league games where 'everyone wins'. Apparently, the boomers have raised a generation even more decadent and useless than themselves.

So it is the young generation's fault even though young people rarely vote or affect elections and all of our leaders are old?

The generation in question didn't vote in 2000 and 2002. They've ramped up since. I won't use the word 'fault', but it is what it is.

 

[umbrella39]

I was scared when the GOP gained control of the House, Senate, and White House in 2000 and then held it in 2004. Rightfully so IMO. So I can understand the concerns some are voicing here. But like then, I was willing to sit back and give them the benefit of the doubt. I would hope McCain supporters do the same. If things get worse and not better, then we'll know that neither side knows what the hell they are doing. Personally, I have never been a big fan of either party having complete control. But I think the dems deserve a shot at it just like the GOP got.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111

A solid chunk of that is Medicare and other mandatory spending which has grown at ~12% per year since 2000.

And your point? Your Republicans knew that spending was there, added to it through an intentionally poorly crafted drug benefit, added a war of choice on to the pile, adamantly refuse to contain healthcare costs, and cut taxes on top of that. Utterly irresponsible behavior.

And Obama knows that spending is there now, and wants to add more healthcare spending to it, and makes claims that it'll cost what he says it'll cost. Hmm.....

That will actually benefit our people... that is the difference.

Not really.....spending $50k on treatment for someone working at a $10k per year job doesn't benefit the people.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: chess9
It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years.

-Robert

That's sadly true for the most part. The generation born from 1980-1990 grew up on Barney and Pokemon and little league games where 'everyone wins'. Apparently, the boomers have raised a generation even more decadent and useless than themselves.

Interesting take. Are you claiming that the newer generations are bigger wimps or weaker in some regard than the older generations?

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

This election is more a failure of McCain and his crappy campaign than W. Most of the 'failed policies' of W's presidency occurred in his first term, not his second.

Did bush have any policies in his second term? except stay the course in iraq?

Immigration and social security reform. Neither worked, so not really. Clinton didn't do anything in his second term either; he just happened to be lucky enough to leave months before a financial crisis and recession hit rather than months after.

He helped Yugoslavia...

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111

A solid chunk of that is Medicare and other mandatory spending which has grown at ~12% per year since 2000.

And your point? Your Republicans knew that spending was there, added to it through an intentionally poorly crafted drug benefit, added a war of choice on to the pile, adamantly refuse to contain healthcare costs, and cut taxes on top of that. Utterly irresponsible behavior.

And Obama knows that spending is there now, and wants to add more healthcare spending to it, and makes claims that it'll cost what he says it'll cost. Hmm.....

That will actually benefit our people... that is the difference.

Not really.....spending $50k on treatment for someone working at a $10k per year job doesn't benefit the people.

So you make an assumption that supports what you want the outcome to be.

Meanwhile, people like my wife and I were denied insurance by everyone in the state.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years. Instead, he misread the tea leaves and decided to stick with the religious right and abandon his well-crafted independent image. You can't have two narratives running about who you are simultaneously. That's his problem-there is no suspension of disbelief in the telling of his story, and it was absolutely necessary to get him elected.

Anyway, this is why Palin is done. The religious right is on the decline, finally. And so is Reaganomics (The Laughable Curve). The next serious Republican challenger will be a centrist, unless the party has a death wish. I never rule out that possibility.

Btw, I just heard from one of my lawyer buddies who worked for McCain in N.C. He was appalled at the selection of Palin and says between Palin and the economy, in his humble opinion, McCain will lose. He's still voting for him though. Crazy....

-Robert

FTW, 8 years ago McCain had my vote because he was pragmatic and willing to work with what he's got and he was big on curbing spending. Today he doesn't have my vote. As a conservative independent (fiscally conservative, more in the center socially) I am baffled on how two-faced he looks today. Bigger flip-flopper than Kerry IMHO.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111

A solid chunk of that is Medicare and other mandatory spending which has grown at ~12% per year since 2000.

And your point? Your Republicans knew that spending was there, added to it through an intentionally poorly crafted drug benefit, added a war of choice on to the pile, adamantly refuse to contain healthcare costs, and cut taxes on top of that. Utterly irresponsible behavior.

And Obama knows that spending is there now, and wants to add more healthcare spending to it, and makes claims that it'll cost what he says it'll cost. Hmm.....

That will actually benefit our people... that is the difference.

Not really.....spending $50k on treatment for someone working at a $10k per year job doesn't benefit the people.

So you make an assumption that supports what you want the outcome to be.

Meanwhile, people like my wife and I were denied insurance by everyone in the state.

Its easy to criticize and set policies without being in any of the shoes you are setting policies for.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: T2T III
Scared? Hell yeah, I'm scared. :frown:

After living in fear of the psychopathic fucktards in charge for the past 8 years, I welcome a more stable, sane president who believes that talking first is the correct approach rather than laying waste to populations, especially when neither of the fucktards saw any military action.

Which is why you are voting for the guy who said:

"There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again, If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf will not act, we will."

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111

A solid chunk of that is Medicare and other mandatory spending which has grown at ~12% per year since 2000.

And your point? Your Republicans knew that spending was there, added to it through an intentionally poorly crafted drug benefit, added a war of choice on to the pile, adamantly refuse to contain healthcare costs, and cut taxes on top of that. Utterly irresponsible behavior.

And Obama knows that spending is there now, and wants to add more healthcare spending to it, and makes claims that it'll cost what he says it'll cost. Hmm.....

That will actually benefit our people... that is the difference.

Not really.....spending $50k on treatment for someone working at a $10k per year job doesn't benefit the people.

You say that until you are the person who needs an expensive treatment that you cannot afford and your insurance doesn't cover anywhere near what is needed for you to manage the expense.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

:roll:

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111

A solid chunk of that is Medicare and other mandatory spending which has grown at ~12% per year since 2000.

And your point? Your Republicans knew that spending was there, added to it through an intentionally poorly crafted drug benefit, added a war of choice on to the pile, adamantly refuse to contain healthcare costs, and cut taxes on top of that. Utterly irresponsible behavior.

And Obama knows that spending is there now, and wants to add more healthcare spending to it, and makes claims that it'll cost what he says it'll cost. Hmm.....

That will actually benefit our people... that is the difference.

Not really.....spending $50k on treatment for someone working at a $10k per year job doesn't benefit the people.

Only if you don't value human life....

When that person only making 10K a year kicks the bucket then their dependents become wards of the state, which, surprise, will cost more than 50K.

But every life is precious, I know. :brokenheart:

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: winnar111
Not really.....spending $50k on treatment for someone working at a $10k per year job doesn't benefit the people.

Only if you don't value human life....

When that person only making 10K a year kicks the bucket then their dependents become wards of the state, which, surprise, will cost more than 50K.

But every life is precious, I know. :brokenheart:

Funny how even the most cold hearted assholes in this country still benefit from providing those with health care.

Winnar, the only way you will get what you want out of this issue of health care is to reduce the costs of health care and/or to give people a lot more incentive to be healthy. One incentive is to make it easy for them to get into a routine of preventative care so that the big costly expenses which drive the prices up are minimal throughout their lives.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
But then you need to ask why our tax dollars and econ are so important to us? It is all worthless unless the money is used in ways which lead towards the greatest progression which goes beyond class separated or individual progression since we are by no means a country of isolation at any level and we never will be.

In other words, we gotta concentrate far less on square one which deals with nothing but the raw tax dollar numbers.

How much of your money are you giving away in order to help the 'greatest progression'??

 

[Throckmorton]

Wait, when did conservatives believe in progress?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Xavier434
But then you need to ask why our tax dollars and econ are so important to us? It is all worthless unless the money is used in ways which lead towards the greatest progression which goes beyond class separated or individual progression since we are by no means a country of isolation at any level and we never will be.

In other words, we gotta concentrate far less on square one which deals with nothing but the raw tax dollar numbers.

How much of your money are you giving away in order to help the 'greatest progression'??

Funny you ask. I applied the estimated % tax increase on the top 1% of America if Obama's plans go through to my own gross income and you know what I found out? I found out that I would be able to get along just fine without even having to change my lifestyle and my families total gross income is less than 6 figures.

If I can do it without changing my lifestyle while making less than 6 figures gross then anyone making over 250k profit most certainly can do it and let's not even begin to talk about the top 1% that pulls in something like 8-11 figures.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Xavier434
But then you need to ask why our tax dollars and econ are so important to us? It is all worthless unless the money is used in ways which lead towards the greatest progression which goes beyond class separated or individual progression since we are by no means a country of isolation at any level and we never will be.

In other words, we gotta concentrate far less on square one which deals with nothing but the raw tax dollar numbers.

How much of your money are you giving away in order to help the 'greatest progression'??

I think this argument falls on its face since so much money has been blown on Iraq. Easy counter is, well we could have spent Iraq money on something else, for a very very long time.