How Scared is the GOP of an Obama win?

[Xavier434]

Since we are discussing health care so much in this thread I thought this political comic would be appropriate.

Comic

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: chess9
It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years.

-Robert

That's sadly true for the most part. The generation born from 1980-1990 grew up on Barney and Pokemon and little league games where 'everyone wins'. Apparently, the boomers have raised a generation even more decadent and useless than themselves.

Interesting take. Are you claiming that the newer generations are bigger wimps or weaker in some regard than the older generations?

Partially, but only because they've been sheltered and have really never had to work for much of anything. When someone fails at something their instinct has been to cry about unfairness rather than give someone a kick in the ass.

I have 2 nephews: both majored in sociology or something similar. 1 has already boomeranged back to his parents house and the other is on his way to doing so. It's sad really.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

They will blame it on McCain and the moderates who have now jumped ship. The next republican nominee will be an ultra conservative right of newt. It sucks the republicans do the right thing and ditch the religious right and get rewarded by getting killed in the election. They will take that as they need to go hard core to the right on all issues.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti

Originally posted by: T2T III
Scared? Hell yeah, I'm scared. :frown:

After living in fear of the psychopathic fucktards in charge for the past 8 years, I welcome a more stable, sane president who believes that talking first is the correct approach rather than laying waste to populations, especially when neither of the fucktards saw any military action.

Which is why you are voting for the guy who said:

"There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again, If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf will not act, we will."

I welcome talking first unless it's a country who's harboring the cause the 9/11. If they refuse to cooperate, they will be sidestepped. Simple as that.

 

[Moonbeam]

The pigs fear somebody will steal their slop.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

:roll:

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111

A solid chunk of that is Medicare and other mandatory spending which has grown at ~12% per year since 2000.

And your point? Your Republicans knew that spending was there, added to it through an intentionally poorly crafted drug benefit, added a war of choice on to the pile, adamantly refuse to contain healthcare costs, and cut taxes on top of that. Utterly irresponsible behavior.

And Obama knows that spending is there now, and wants to add more healthcare spending to it, and makes claims that it'll cost what he says it'll cost. Hmm.....

That will actually benefit our people... that is the difference.

Not really.....spending $50k on treatment for someone working at a $10k per year job doesn't benefit the people.

So you make an assumption that supports what you want the outcome to be.

Meanwhile, people like my wife and I were denied insurance by everyone in the state.

What assumption? It's a fact that healthcare has become significantly more expensive over the past 8 years, and that workers haven't grown in productivity to that extent. New technology does NOT reduce the cost of healthcare. Nothing is infinite even if you bury your head in the sand and pretend that it is.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: chess9
It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years.

-Robert

That's sadly true for the most part. The generation born from 1980-1990 grew up on Barney and Pokemon and little league games where 'everyone wins'. Apparently, the boomers have raised a generation even more decadent and useless than themselves.

Interesting take. Are you claiming that the newer generations are bigger wimps or weaker in some regard than the older generations?

Partially, but only because they've been sheltered and have really never had to work for much of anything. When someone fails at something their instinct has been to cry about unfairness rather than give someone a kick in the ass.

I have 2 nephews: both majored in sociology or something similar. 1 has already boomeranged back to his parents house and the other is on his way to doing so. It's sad really.

Are you suggesting there are no poor people who have to work hard to get out of their condition anymore?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Xavier434
But then you need to ask why our tax dollars and econ are so important to us? It is all worthless unless the money is used in ways which lead towards the greatest progression which goes beyond class separated or individual progression since we are by no means a country of isolation at any level and we never will be.

In other words, we gotta concentrate far less on square one which deals with nothing but the raw tax dollar numbers.

How much of your money are you giving away in order to help the 'greatest progression'??

I think this argument falls on its face since so much money has been blown on Iraq. Easy counter is, well we could have spent Iraq money on something else, for a very very long time.

We spend 1% of GDP in Iraq compared to 10% of GDP in Vietnam and 30-40% of GDP in WWII.

I guess its easy to blame the boogeyman.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Xavier434
But then you need to ask why our tax dollars and econ are so important to us? It is all worthless unless the money is used in ways which lead towards the greatest progression which goes beyond class separated or individual progression since we are by no means a country of isolation at any level and we never will be.

In other words, we gotta concentrate far less on square one which deals with nothing but the raw tax dollar numbers.

How much of your money are you giving away in order to help the 'greatest progression'??

Funny you ask. I applied the estimated % tax increase on the top 1% of America if Obama's plans go through to my own gross income and you know what I found out? I found out that I would be able to get along just fine without even having to change my lifestyle and my families total gross income is less than 6 figures.

If I can do it without changing my lifestyle while making less than 6 figures gross then anyone making over 250k profit most certainly can do it and let's not even begin to talk about the top 1% that pulls in something like 8-11 figures.

That wasn't the question.

How much of YOUR money are giving to help this 'greatest progression' that you speak so highly about??

And in case you aren't paying attention that $250,000 figure is slowly dropping.
Paul Krugman

What about the claim, based on Joe the Plumber?s complaint, that ordinary working Americans would face higher taxes under Mr. Obama? Well, Mr. Obama proposes raising rates on only the top two income tax brackets ? and the second-highest bracket for a head of household starts at an income, after deductions, of $182,400 a year.

Joe Biden

What we?re saying is that $87 billion tax break doesn?t need to go to people making an average of 1.4 million, it should go like it used to. It should go to middle class people ? people making under $150,000 a year.?

We started at $250,000 according to Obama, but now it is down to $150,000. How much lower do you think it will get??

In case you forgot, Bill Clinton promised a middle class tax CUT and then turned around and RAISED taxes on nearly everyone. Considering the size of the current deficit and the spending plans Obama has he is either going to have to raise taxes or reduce his spending plan, which one do you think he'll do?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr
I'm not sure a throwback to New Deal big government is exactly progress... Obama is a celebrity onto which people continue to project their own hopes and dreams who seems driven primarily by poll numbers and special interest money. Based on the little he's actually done while serving in his elected congressional seat I am not optimistic that his presidency will bring anything but more government spending and less freedom and prosperity overall for the average American, but we'll see.

I will agree with you that the GoP has pretty well depth charged themselves this election and needs to get back to the core values of fiscal conservatism, free markets and individual liberties. The "big tent" movement in the GOP to attract fairweather independents and moderates by moving the party platform farther to the left has pretty much been a disaster for the party by alienating the conservative base.

And this differs from Republican candidates how?

I am a registered Republican and the last thing I want to see is a shift in the party to a more conservative base. I'm a moderate and vehemently disagree with some of the core values of conservatives. I am for fiscal responsibility however, which is why I registered as a republican in the first place, but I'm fed up with the direction our nation has been led during the last 8 years. The fear mongering, the lies, and the outright irresponsibility in spending has left me with no alternative but to vote for a Democrat next Tuesday.

Change is necessary IMO and I don't see that coming from McCain and certainly not Palin.

I'm going to change my affiliation to Independent after this election.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111
Partially, but only because they've been sheltered and have really never had to work for much of anything. When someone fails at something their instinct has been to cry about unfairness rather than give someone a kick in the ass.

I have 2 nephews: both majored in sociology or something similar. 1 has already boomeranged back to his parents house and the other is on his way to doing so. It's sad really.

Are you suggesting there are no poor people who have to work hard to get out of their condition anymore?

The 'poor' people in this generation are running around with I-phones.

What's making them poor? They don't pay much for healthcare. They're better educated than previous generations.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111

A solid chunk of that is Medicare and other mandatory spending which has grown at ~12% per year since 2000.

And your point? Your Republicans knew that spending was there, added to it through an intentionally poorly crafted drug benefit, added a war of choice on to the pile, adamantly refuse to contain healthcare costs, and cut taxes on top of that. Utterly irresponsible behavior.

And Obama knows that spending is there now, and wants to add more healthcare spending to it, and makes claims that it'll cost what he says it'll cost. Hmm.....

That will actually benefit our people... that is the difference.

Not really.....spending $50k on treatment for someone working at a $10k per year job doesn't benefit the people.

So you make an assumption that supports what you want the outcome to be.

Meanwhile, people like my wife and I were denied insurance by everyone in the state.

What assumption? It's a fact that healthcare has become significantly more expensive over the past 8 years, and that workers haven't grown in productivity to that extent. New technology does NOT reduce the cost of healthcare. Nothing is infinite even if you bury your head in the sand and pretend that it is.

You are right.. I give up.. wars that kill 10s or 100s of thousands and destabalize regions are more important than healthcare for our citizens. You win.

 

[quest55720]

I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111
Partially, but only because they've been sheltered and have really never had to work for much of anything. When someone fails at something their instinct has been to cry about unfairness rather than give someone a kick in the ass.

I have 2 nephews: both majored in sociology or something similar. 1 has already boomeranged back to his parents house and the other is on his way to doing so. It's sad really.

Are you suggesting there are no poor people who have to work hard to get out of their condition anymore?

The 'poor' people in this generation are running around with I-phones.

What's making them poor? They don't pay much for healthcare. They're better educated than previous generations.

They can even eat cake.

I hope you die of a treatable cancer because you don't have money for care.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

But a trillion dollar war is good. Just so you know where your priorities lay.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Thats kind of like this story... I call it a tale of a lib and a con.

Once upon a time there was a great prince that became king and led his kingdom from financial turmoil and record budget deficits to record growth and a surplus. Sadly then that king's time ended and the people of the great land elected a new king... That new king brought financial peril to the great land and turned that record growth and surplus into recession and record deficits even higher than than ever known before.

I will leave it to you to figure out who the players are. Hint: they are recent presidents =)

Now a new one comes along trying to change the tax code back to the way it was when we were prosperous and you rail against it.

Why? do you hate America, or just hate us being prosperous?

Thanks for that tale of utter crap and showing that correlation doesn't prove causation!

Hint: Clinton cut taxes in his 2nd term before the late 90s boom. And hint: He was lucky enough to get out before shit hit the fan.

Actually he, and his policies were largely responsible for the boom... According to the 2 previous fed chiefs... Which, in my opinion, know a bit more than you about the economy.

http://clinton5.nara.gov/WH/Ac...nts/eightyears-03.html


Clinton-Gore Economic Policy Has Dramatically Improved the Economy

"My colleagues and I have been very appreciative of your [President Clinton?s] support of the Fed over the years, and your commitment to fiscal discipline has been instrumental in achieving what in a few weeks will be the longest economic expansion in the nation?s history."
? Alan Greenspan, Federal Reserve Board Chairman, January 4, 2000, with President Clinton at Chairman Greenspan?s re-nomination announcement

"The deficit has come down, and I give the Clinton Administration and President Clinton himself a lot of credit for that. [He] did something about it, fast. And I think we are seeing some benefits."
? Paul Volcker, Federal Reserve Board Chairman (1979-1987), in Audacity, Fall 1994

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111
Partially, but only because they've been sheltered and have really never had to work for much of anything. When someone fails at something their instinct has been to cry about unfairness rather than give someone a kick in the ass.

I have 2 nephews: both majored in sociology or something similar. 1 has already boomeranged back to his parents house and the other is on his way to doing so. It's sad really.

Are you suggesting there are no poor people who have to work hard to get out of their condition anymore?

The 'poor' people in this generation are running around with I-phones.

What's making them poor? They don't pay much for healthcare. They're better educated than previous generations.

In your world everyone is rich, including the poor, and no one dies of health problems with their low cost healthcare... I can't argue with that.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111
Partially, but only because they've been sheltered and have really never had to work for much of anything. When someone fails at something their instinct has been to cry about unfairness rather than give someone a kick in the ass.

I have 2 nephews: both majored in sociology or something similar. 1 has already boomeranged back to his parents house and the other is on his way to doing so. It's sad really.

Are you suggesting there are no poor people who have to work hard to get out of their condition anymore?

The 'poor' people in this generation are running around with I-phones.

What's making them poor? They don't pay much for healthcare. They're better educated than previous generations.

They can even eat cake.

I hope you die of a treatable cancer because you don't have money for care.

Yes, and if they don't like it, well, we will revive the guillotine. A few lost heads will quiet the unwashed masses. And we could do what Cromwell did, hang their heads on lampposts.

-Robert

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111
Partially, but only because they've been sheltered and have really never had to work for much of anything. When someone fails at something their instinct has been to cry about unfairness rather than give someone a kick in the ass.

I have 2 nephews: both majored in sociology or something similar. 1 has already boomeranged back to his parents house and the other is on his way to doing so. It's sad really.

Are you suggesting there are no poor people who have to work hard to get out of their condition anymore?

The 'poor' people in this generation are running around with I-phones.

What's making them poor? They don't pay much for healthcare. They're better educated than previous generations.

Link or go fuck yourself.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

You wouldn't have any change if you already have health insurance. Stop with the fear and smearing nonsense.

This current crisis is an experiment in pure capitalism, and even though the stock market has been cut in half and people have lost 50% of their life savings, obviously we must fear something new!

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

But a trillion dollar war is good. Just so you know where your priorities lay.

Don't like the war either. Love to get out of both wars and use the money to balance the budget. This government gets more than enough money right now. It is time to get spending under control.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

You wouldn't have any change if you already have health insurance. Stop with the fear and smearing nonsense.

This current crisis is an experiment in pure capitalism, and even though the stock market has been cut in half and people have lost 50% of their life savings, obviously we must fear something new!

Nope I watched the whole DNC convention and I heard over and over UHC. You saying the democrats will break the promise of UHC? The democratic party wants to take over my healthcare. They want to tax this shit out of me for some second rate medicare level coverage.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

You wouldn't have any change if you already have health insurance. Stop with the fear and smearing nonsense.

This current crisis is an experiment in pure capitalism, and even though the stock market has been cut in half and people have lost 50% of their life savings, obviously we must fear something new!

Nope I watched the whole DNC convention and I heard over and over UHC. You saying the democrats will break the promise of UHC? The democratic party wants to take over my healthcare. They want to tax this shit out of me for some second rate medicare level coverage.

I'm saying that that is not Obama's plan and he will be the leader of their policy.

Additionally, even in a complete UHC system like Canada, you can choose personal coverage and your own doctors instead, if you don't like it.

Stop the fear and smear nonsense.

50 million people have no healthcare coverage.. you don't want them to even have a chance because of fear of change.. stop the garbage.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: quest55720
I am not a member of the GOP but very scared of Obama/Pelosi/Reid with no checks on them. I don't think 4 year experiment in socialism is what this country needs at this time. I don't want my choice of doctors taken away by the government and some shitty expensive UHC. I don't want to see money given away to those on the lower end. I am fine with them paying no federal taxes but no way they should get a check from Obama. I don't want to a trillion dollars in new social spending under Obama.

But a trillion dollar war is good. Just so you know where your priorities lay.

Don't like the war either. Love to get out of both wars and use the money to balance the budget. This government gets more than enough money right now. It is time to get spending under control.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. The tax cut thing is just subterfuge.

We need to cut and cut and cut ... until we start seeing campaign slogans about raising spending.