How Scared is the GOP of an Obama win?

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Bird222

Originally posted by: T2T III

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: T2T III
Scared? Hell yeah, I'm scared. :frown:

What exactly are you scared of? Just trying to gain some insight.

Several reasons:

1) More smaller business will either fail due to tax increases, or they'll have to curb the hiring of employees - and may even lay more of them off.

2) People who are not currently paying taxes, but will receive "Demfare" checks which will be disguised as tax credits. This will weaken the ability and desire for one to further advance themself.

3) The "real" Obama will appear. He's done a great job of keep calm, cool and collected; people love the view of him now, but what will the future bear?

4) Suppression of freedom of speech for networks who question any of his decisions or practices (as already witnessed via Joe Biden's) responses to date.

5) Joe Biden's "firecracker" temper.

Do you have ANY evidence of the "real" Obama? Where have you seen him NOT be calm, cool and collected?

I'm sure T2T III is withholding something that thousands of reporters and political operatives have been unable to unearth.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111
My tax dollars are scared.

Why? Are you afraid that the Democrats might require you to pay for all the crap your party's been buying over the last eight years? Responsibility: try it some time.

The Dems aren't going to require squat. When was the last time a Democratic Congress passed a balanced budget? Go look that up and get back to us. People need to stop pretending the Dems oppose deficit spending - they merely object to how the money is spent. Obama and the Democratically-controlled Congress aren't going to do anything about the deficit, any more than the GOP did or would've done. Power is maintained by either party through passing out political favors, and that mostly means monetary benefits. The Dems are no different.

The 5 trillion added to the debt under the Bush/Republican regime suggests there is a qualitative difference in quantity. The Democrats are fiscally irresponsible to an extent. Republicans are fiscally irresponsible beyond all imagination, that is a significant difference. "Deficits don't matter".

A solid chunk of that is Medicare and other mandatory spending which has grown at ~12% per year since 2000.

And your point? Your Republicans knew that spending was there, added to it through an intentionally poorly crafted drug benefit, added a war of choice on to the pile, adamantly refuse to contain healthcare costs, and cut taxes on top of that. Utterly irresponsible behavior.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111

A solid chunk of that is Medicare and other mandatory spending which has grown at ~12% per year since 2000.

And your point? Your Republicans knew that spending was there, added to it through an intentionally poorly crafted drug benefit, added a war of choice on to the pile, adamantly refuse to contain healthcare costs, and cut taxes on top of that. Utterly irresponsible behavior.

And Obama knows that spending is there now, and wants to add more healthcare spending to it, and makes claims that it'll cost what he says it'll cost. Hmm.....

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: winnar111
My tax dollars are scared.

Is that the most important thing to you?

It's the most important thing to a lot of people.

And there's nothing wrong with that. I consider economic liberty (the ability to keep most of the fruits of my own labor) about as important as civil liverty. A gov't which suppresses the first but grants much of the second is still a bad gov't, IMHO. If a gov't took the majority of your material goods but allowed you to complain about it, are you any better off?

Of course, you're going to say this. Anything else would create cognitive dissonance.

:roll: You know, it's perfectly legal to pay more in taxes than you actually owe. How many times have you done that? About as many times as I have (0), I'll bet. We're not much different.

We're similar in that we both hate excessive taxation.

We're different in how we respond to it.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111
My tax dollars are scared.

Why? Are you afraid that the Democrats might require you to pay for all the crap your party's been buying over the last eight years? Responsibility: try it some time.

The Dems aren't going to require squat. When was the last time a Democratic Congress passed a balanced budget? Go look that up and get back to us. People need to stop pretending the Dems oppose deficit spending - they merely object to how the money is spent. Obama and the Democratically-controlled Congress aren't going to do anything about the deficit, any more than the GOP did or would've done. Power is maintained by either party through passing out political favors, and that mostly means monetary benefits. The Dems are no different.

The 5 trillion added to the debt under the Bush/Republican regime suggests there is a qualitative difference in quantity. The Democrats are fiscally irresponsible to an extent. Republicans are fiscally irresponsible beyond all imagination, that is a significant difference. "Deficits don't matter".

So we both agree both parties are driving the country off a cliff, fiscally speaking. All you're saying is, Party D is better because we'll be take longer to reach the edge - that's just splitting hairs. I reject both Party D and Party R if the only difference is the speed at which we're approaching oblivion. I'm looking for a new party which actually wishes to change direction.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434
The Repubs are going to do that too...just in different ways. Face it. That part of America is never going to change. What you want is a pipe dream. A selfish pipe dream that will do nothing but make you angry the rest of your life if you hold on to it.

Really? I moved to NJ when Christie Whitman was governor back in 1997, and the state budget was about $16 billion. Today after a string of Democratic governors, its about $33 billion, and they're whining about a 'shortfall'.

The pendulum is ever swinging except right now the majority of your party of choice is no longer fiscally conservative. The best thing you can hope for and should be striving for is the reform of your party. McCain is not that reformer and you know it. You hate spending so much. You cannot ignore his spending plans or at the very least you shouldn't be.

You love hating social welfare yet you ignore corporate welfare by supporting a party that ignores it. Perhaps the best thing you can do is start by reforming yourself in terms of what you do and do not support within your own party.

 

[jdelrio22]

Can't wait for the dems. to get in and turn the country around.

Bring back the real estate tax (Don't call it the death tax because that isn't what it really is but yet it is a term that has been frivolously used to incite reactions in people who aren't fully aware of the issue!!)

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: Bird222

Originally posted by: T2T III

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: T2T III
Scared? Hell yeah, I'm scared. :frown:

What exactly are you scared of? Just trying to gain some insight.

Several reasons:

1) More smaller business will either fail due to tax increases, or they'll have to curb the hiring of employees - and may even lay more of them off.

2) People who are not currently paying taxes, but will receive "Demfare" checks which will be disguised as tax credits. This will weaken the ability and desire for one to further advance themself.

3) The "real" Obama will appear. He's done a great job of keep calm, cool and collected; people love the view of him now, but what will the future bear?

4) Suppression of freedom of speech for networks who question any of his decisions or practices (as already witnessed via Joe Biden's) responses to date.

5) Joe Biden's "firecracker" temper.

Do you have ANY evidence of the "real" Obama? Where have you seen him NOT be calm, cool and collected?

I'm sure T2T III is withholding something that thousands of reporters and political operatives have been unable to unearth.

Of course. He's done a great job of evasion. His rallies are more like a religious revival than a political appearance. "Heal, heal, heal!" When the tough questions get asked of his compaign, people like Biden get extremely defensive. In fact, I'm just waiting for the moment when steam starts coming out of Biden's ears. Surely, it must be soon. If Obama can be the one to stay calm, then surely, Biden will torque him ... just as Biden has done on the campaign trail by sticking his foot in his mouth and being an ebarassment to the Obama campaign.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111
My tax dollars are scared.

Why? Are you afraid that the Democrats might require you to pay for all the crap your party's been buying over the last eight years? Responsibility: try it some time.

No, I'm worried that the Democrats might require me to pay for somebody else's crap. They're already doing it at the state and local levels.

The Repubs are going to do that too...just in different ways. Face it. That part of America is never going to change. What you want is a pipe dream. A selfish pipe dream that will do nothing but make you angry the rest of your life if you hold on to it.

Really? I moved to NJ when Christie Whitman was governor back in 1997, and the state budget was about $16 billion. Today after a string of Democratic governors, its about $33 billion, and they're whining about a 'shortfall'.

Thats kind of like this story... I call it a tale of a lib and a con.

Once upon a time there was a great prince that became king and led his kingdom from financial turmoil and record budget deficits to record growth and a surplus. Sadly then that king's time ended and the people of the great land elected a new king... That new king brought financial peril to the great land and turned that record growth and surplus into recession and record deficits even higher than than ever known before.

I will leave it to you to figure out who the players are. Hint: they are recent presidents =)

Now a new one comes along trying to change the tax code back to the way it was when we were prosperous and you rail against it.

Why? do you hate America, or just hate us being prosperous?

 

[Moonbeam]

"Of course. He's done a great job of evasion. His rallies are more like a religious revival than a political appearance. "Heal, heal, heal!" When the tough questions get asked of his compaign, people like Biden get extremely defensive. In fact, I'm just waiting for the moment when steam starts coming out of Biden's ears. Surely, it must be soon. If Obama can be the one to stay calm, then surely, Biden will torque him ... just as Biden has done on the campaign trail by sticking his foot in his mouth and being an ebarassment to the Obama campaign." he said to himself over and over again, permanently implanting his delusions in his head so that no reality could seep in.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: T2T III

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: Bird222

Originally posted by: T2T III

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: T2T III
Scared? Hell yeah, I'm scared. :frown:

What exactly are you scared of? Just trying to gain some insight.

Several reasons:

1) More smaller business will either fail due to tax increases, or they'll have to curb the hiring of employees - and may even lay more of them off.

2) People who are not currently paying taxes, but will receive "Demfare" checks which will be disguised as tax credits. This will weaken the ability and desire for one to further advance themself.

3) The "real" Obama will appear. He's done a great job of keep calm, cool and collected; people love the view of him now, but what will the future bear?

4) Suppression of freedom of speech for networks who question any of his decisions or practices (as already witnessed via Joe Biden's) responses to date.

5) Joe Biden's "firecracker" temper.

Do you have ANY evidence of the "real" Obama? Where have you seen him NOT be calm, cool and collected?

I'm sure T2T III is withholding something that thousands of reporters and political operatives have been unable to unearth.

Of course. He's done a great job of evasion. His rallies are more like a religious revival than a political appearance. "Heal, heal, heal!" When the tough questions get asked of his compaign, people like Biden get extremely defensive. In fact, I'm just waiting for the moment when steam starts coming out of Biden's ears. Surely, it must be soon. If Obama can be the one to stay calm, then surely, Biden will torque him ... just as Biden has done on the campaign trail by sticking his foot in his mouth and being an ebarassment to the Obama campaign.

That would indeed be funny - like in a cartoon. Maybe like some of the cartoons you've been watching today...

 

[chess9]

Here's why the Republicans are worried:

http://people-press.org/report/465/mccain-support-declines

Also available from this link: http://www.pollster.com/
Look on the top right hand side of the page about Pew.

-Robert

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111
My tax dollars are scared.

Why? Are you afraid that the Democrats might require you to pay for all the crap your party's been buying over the last eight years? Responsibility: try it some time.

The Dems aren't going to require squat. When was the last time a Democratic Congress passed a balanced budget? Go look that up and get back to us. People need to stop pretending the Dems oppose deficit spending - they merely object to how the money is spent. Obama and the Democratically-controlled Congress aren't going to do anything about the deficit, any more than the GOP did or would've done. Power is maintained by either party through passing out political favors, and that mostly means monetary benefits. The Dems are no different.

Soooooo...does this mean you will changing your sig?

-Robert

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: T2T III

Originally posted by: ayabe
Man I can't wait until the D's outlaw Christmas and Christianity, start busing in illegals, make Spanish the official language, formally surrender to Al Qaeda, give Iran half of our nukes, invade Israel, institute 95% tax rates on anyone with a job, fund abortion vans which go door to door, outlaw all marriage except gay marriage, teach kindergartners how to have sex.

Man it's going to be an awesome next 4 years.

You forgot a few things.

1) Legalization of marijuana and recreational drugs.

2) Give those already leeching off the Government via public assistance more Demfare.

3) Regulating the rules on Wall Street to the point that Ex-Lax won't get the system un-clogged.

OMG MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION COULD HAPPEN, REEFER MADNESS!!! HELP! /shakeshead










Or here's a concept: maybe violent crimes may actually get the attention they need instead of police spending half their time searching pockets for bags of weed?

 

[nageov3t]

my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: T2T III
You forgot a few things.

1) Legalization of marijuana and recreational drugs.

2) Give those already leeching off the Government via public assistance more Demfare.

3) Regulating the rules on Wall Street to the point that Ex-Lax won't get the system un-clogged.

OMG MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION COULD HAPPEN, REEFER MADNESS!!! HELP! /shakeshead


Or here's a concept: maybe violent crimes may actually get the attention they need instead of police spending half their time searching pockets for bags of weed?

Isn't it amazing how selective social service haters are when it comes to what social services they do and do not support? They want it all, but they do not want to pay for it. It has been the same old story for longer than pretty much everyone on this forum has been alive. Yet, now is when they are deciding to scream words like socialism and Marxism. Unbelievable.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
Thats kind of like this story... I call it a tale of a lib and a con.

Once upon a time there was a great prince that became king and led his kingdom from financial turmoil and record budget deficits to record growth and a surplus. Sadly then that king's time ended and the people of the great land elected a new king... That new king brought financial peril to the great land and turned that record growth and surplus into recession and record deficits even higher than than ever known before.

I will leave it to you to figure out who the players are. Hint: they are recent presidents =)

Now a new one comes along trying to change the tax code back to the way it was when we were prosperous and you rail against it.

Why? do you hate America, or just hate us being prosperous?

Thanks for that tale of utter crap and showing that correlation doesn't prove causation!

Hint: Clinton cut taxes in his 2nd term before the late 90s boom. And hint: He was lucky enough to get out before shit hit the fan.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years. Instead, he misread the tea leaves and decided to stick with the religious right and abandon his well-crafted independent image. You can't have two narratives running about who you are simultaneously. That's his problem-there is no suspension of disbelief in the telling of his story, and it was absolutely necessary to get him elected.

Anyway, this is why Palin is done. The religious right is on the decline, finally. And so is Reaganomics (The Laughable Curve). The next serious Republican challenger will be a centrist, unless the party has a death wish. I never rule out that possibility.

Btw, I just heard from one of my lawyer buddies who worked for McCain in N.C. He was appalled at the selection of Palin and says between Palin and the economy, in his humble opinion, McCain will lose. He's still voting for him though. Crazy....

-Robert

 

[Moonbeam]

The Republicans fancy themselves to be the party of God and God if is real, McJesus can't lose.

That's why they were the first to see who the ObaMessiah is.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

This election is more a failure of McCain and his crappy campaign than W. Most of the 'failed policies' of W's presidency occurred in his first term, not his second.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111
My tax dollars are scared.

Why? Are you afraid that the Democrats might require you to pay for all the crap your party's been buying over the last eight years? Responsibility: try it some time.

No, I'm worried that the Democrats might require me to pay for somebody else's crap. They're already doing it at the state and local levels.

Your crap is the war.. and it hasn't been paid for..

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: chess9
It's McCain's fault. PERIOD. He should have run from the center. He would have done that IF he'd understood the country has moved slightly to the LEFT in the last two years.

-Robert

That's sadly true for the most part. The generation born from 1980-1990 grew up on Barney and Pokemon and little league games where 'everyone wins'. Apparently, the boomers have raised a generation even more decadent and useless than themselves.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: loki8481
my real fear is the lesson that my fellow republicans will take from their defeat -- will they blame it on the failed policies of GW and realize that they need to move more towards the center, or will they look at it on a failing by McCain and feel a need to move more into the arms of the religious right?

This election is more a failure of McCain and his crappy campaign than W. Most of the 'failed policies' of W's presidency occurred in his first term, not his second.

Did bush have any policies in his second term? except stay the course in iraq?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111
My tax dollars are scared.

Why? Are you afraid that the Democrats might require you to pay for all the crap your party's been buying over the last eight years? Responsibility: try it some time.

No, I'm worried that the Democrats might require me to pay for somebody else's crap. They're already doing it at the state and local levels.

Your crap is the war.. and it hasn't been paid for..

War is cheaper than healthcare.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: winnar111

A solid chunk of that is Medicare and other mandatory spending which has grown at ~12% per year since 2000.

And your point? Your Republicans knew that spending was there, added to it through an intentionally poorly crafted drug benefit, added a war of choice on to the pile, adamantly refuse to contain healthcare costs, and cut taxes on top of that. Utterly irresponsible behavior.

And Obama knows that spending is there now, and wants to add more healthcare spending to it, and makes claims that it'll cost what he says it'll cost. Hmm.....

That will actually benefit our people... that is the difference.