JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
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I read somewhere, can't remember where but there was a massacre in Russia, that was carried out by Jewish fanatics.. I can't recall where I read this but can someone clarify if something like this ever happened? I read it just can't remember where.
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
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AznAnarchy99
Lifer
- Dec 6, 2004
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No real need to mechanization for genocide to kill alot of people. Rwanda with its machetes and guns did alot of damage in a short time. No one really knew about Rwanda until the movie.
Dont forget about the killing fields of Cambodia. There are alot of acts of genocides that people arent aware of.
ThePresence
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
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You might be thinking of Babi Yar (google it), but that was the other way around. Nazis massacred around 35,000 Jews in that spot in Russia.
AznAnarchy99
Lifer
- Dec 6, 2004
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dude what kind of argument is that? Know better about what? Its still killing human beings. So genocide was determined bad after about half a century after we killed off a people? We didnt want the Natives on "our" land and we forced them out. We didnt like them and we thought they were "inferior". Its the same thing, Hitler thought the Jewish people were "inferior" and attempted to get rid of them.
Well it was probably false then.. Regardless... Many terrible things happened in the past. But we cannot let one incident take precident over another, if you disagree with that than answer this question:
If you HAD to make a choice, would you rather have 10 million strangers killed in gas chambers, or only your immediate family killed?
murder is murder. It shouldn't matter how many people died it is still unacceptable. People lost loved ones. The world learned of the tragedy and will not allow it to happen again. But please don't focus on only one aspect, everybody who died had a family and people who loved them.
If you HAD to make a choice, would you rather have 10 million strangers killed in gas chambers, or only your immediate family killed?
murder is murder. It shouldn't matter how many people died it is still unacceptable. People lost loved ones. The world learned of the tragedy and will not allow it to happen again. But please don't focus on only one aspect, everybody who died had a family and people who loved them.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
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because of the systematic and cruel way the germans went about it. they set the bar to a whole new level. plus they supposedly had reached the highest level of civilization/culture of their time, and yet they stooped to this. against their neighbors..their countrymen.
i think the armenians are christian, the turks are mostly muslim. course one must remember hitler was inspired by the work of the turks, it was an example of how he could get away with his plan. the turks deny it to this day.
i think the armenians are christian, the turks are mostly muslim. course one must remember hitler was inspired by the work of the turks, it was an example of how he could get away with his plan. the turks deny it to this day.
- Oct 10, 1999
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I watched the movie that depicts those events and found it very disturbing (Killing Fields). I do not know enough about the situation to make any comment though.
I know, that's why I mentioned the mechanization
In most cases of genocide, they just go out and kill people. Other times, they'll force them to march long distances, which will kill large amounts of them, then kill the ones who survive. In the case of the Armenians, the Turks not only did that, but released prisoners to help with the slaugther.
Yet the Nazis had an entire infrastructure built in order to eradicate millions of peope. It really sets it apart from the others because of that.
And to the person who said all that makes Armenians different is a language, you are extraordinarily wrong. They are an ancient and very rich culture. They are also known as the first Christian nation.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
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http://pekingduck.org/archives/000987.php
Why do you say the Holocaust was unique?
That's what a commenter asked me a few minutes ago, even after I said I didn't want to address this subject. Well, too late now. After I wrote my reply, I decided it was worthy of its own post:
Genocide has been here forever and it will probably never go away. Turks and Armenians, Serbs and Croatians, Pol Pot and the Cambodians, Chiang Kai Shek and the Communists, Stalin and Lenin and Mao against the aristocracy and bourgeoisie. In terms of numbers, Stalin may have murdered more than Hitler did, and Mao just may top them all. So why does the Holocaust stand apart?
The Germans were a people that had attained an unmatched level of civilization -- lliterate, educated, sophisticated and artistic. They had brought the world some of the very greatest geniuses, Bach and Mozart and Kant and Nietzsche and Goethe and Heine, to name just a few. That this most-refined society then descended to the point where barbarism was licensed and actively encouraged is one of the great anomalies of history, and new books come out every year as to why Nazism was able to take root and thrive.
The Nazis inflicted this barbarism against the people of Eastern Europe in a way that is literally unimaginable. This in itself is extraordinary enough considering Germany's great culture. But then, just when we know they couldn't get any more monstrous, they bring us The Holocaust.
Here was something that no one could have envisaged because it was simply beyond the scope of human capabilities. An advanced society, technologically adept and renowned for its efficiency and force of will, actually turns this knowledge and skill and determination to a cause so profoundly evil, so totally bad that even today, 60 years later, we try to grapple with it, usually without success. For the first time in man's history, modern assembly-line efficiencies and state-of-the-art technologies were implemented for the primary purpose of exterminating an entire race of people. The sheer level of collaboration and organization is staggering. And it showed us "sophisticated Westerners" just how thin our veneer of civilization really can be.
At least when Stalin and Lenin ordered the mass shootings after the glorious revolution they believed (deludedly and insanely) that they were shooting active, threatening enemies. In the case of the Jews, the Nazis butchered babies, children, mothers, husbands, grandparents, teens -- people who had posed literally no threat, who had done nothing aside from exist. Yet their mere existence was cause enough to invest billions of dollars into the gulag of death camps that would commoditize the mass murder of innocents.
There are many other aspects of the Holocaust that set it apart, like the wanton cruelty of doctors educated in the world's finest universities. (And when I say cruelty, I mean really, really cruel.) Man's inhumanity to man is an old story. But never did we see it displayed like this in the modern age and in the Western world, which had supposedly been reshaped by the Enlightenment into a more tolerant and rational society. It was a grotesque hiccup of history, as though in an instant an entire modern society dropped through a time warp into the dark ages.
There is a reason why the Holocaust has the mystique it does, why it is so disturbing. Unfortunately, "the Holocaust industry" has exploited it, created several myths and in some cases exaggerated its history. But that doesn't take away from what actually happened. Genocide was a thing of the past in Europe. It was from a darker, more violent age. And then the unthinkable happened, and we were forced to face the fact that there is a dark side to man, no matter how civilized or educated he may be.
It's a subject I can go on and on about. Studying the Holocaust offers infinite insights into all aspects of man, from the most base to the most noble, and it will always stand apart as one of the great aberrations in man's history, and one that must never be forgotten. Men were capable of doing it then, and we can repeat it at any time if we fail to remain vigilant against intolerance, hatred and tyranny.
Why do you say the Holocaust was unique?
That's what a commenter asked me a few minutes ago, even after I said I didn't want to address this subject. Well, too late now. After I wrote my reply, I decided it was worthy of its own post:
Genocide has been here forever and it will probably never go away. Turks and Armenians, Serbs and Croatians, Pol Pot and the Cambodians, Chiang Kai Shek and the Communists, Stalin and Lenin and Mao against the aristocracy and bourgeoisie. In terms of numbers, Stalin may have murdered more than Hitler did, and Mao just may top them all. So why does the Holocaust stand apart?
The Germans were a people that had attained an unmatched level of civilization -- lliterate, educated, sophisticated and artistic. They had brought the world some of the very greatest geniuses, Bach and Mozart and Kant and Nietzsche and Goethe and Heine, to name just a few. That this most-refined society then descended to the point where barbarism was licensed and actively encouraged is one of the great anomalies of history, and new books come out every year as to why Nazism was able to take root and thrive.
The Nazis inflicted this barbarism against the people of Eastern Europe in a way that is literally unimaginable. This in itself is extraordinary enough considering Germany's great culture. But then, just when we know they couldn't get any more monstrous, they bring us The Holocaust.
Here was something that no one could have envisaged because it was simply beyond the scope of human capabilities. An advanced society, technologically adept and renowned for its efficiency and force of will, actually turns this knowledge and skill and determination to a cause so profoundly evil, so totally bad that even today, 60 years later, we try to grapple with it, usually without success. For the first time in man's history, modern assembly-line efficiencies and state-of-the-art technologies were implemented for the primary purpose of exterminating an entire race of people. The sheer level of collaboration and organization is staggering. And it showed us "sophisticated Westerners" just how thin our veneer of civilization really can be.
At least when Stalin and Lenin ordered the mass shootings after the glorious revolution they believed (deludedly and insanely) that they were shooting active, threatening enemies. In the case of the Jews, the Nazis butchered babies, children, mothers, husbands, grandparents, teens -- people who had posed literally no threat, who had done nothing aside from exist. Yet their mere existence was cause enough to invest billions of dollars into the gulag of death camps that would commoditize the mass murder of innocents.
There are many other aspects of the Holocaust that set it apart, like the wanton cruelty of doctors educated in the world's finest universities. (And when I say cruelty, I mean really, really cruel.) Man's inhumanity to man is an old story. But never did we see it displayed like this in the modern age and in the Western world, which had supposedly been reshaped by the Enlightenment into a more tolerant and rational society. It was a grotesque hiccup of history, as though in an instant an entire modern society dropped through a time warp into the dark ages.
There is a reason why the Holocaust has the mystique it does, why it is so disturbing. Unfortunately, "the Holocaust industry" has exploited it, created several myths and in some cases exaggerated its history. But that doesn't take away from what actually happened. Genocide was a thing of the past in Europe. It was from a darker, more violent age. And then the unthinkable happened, and we were forced to face the fact that there is a dark side to man, no matter how civilized or educated he may be.
It's a subject I can go on and on about. Studying the Holocaust offers infinite insights into all aspects of man, from the most base to the most noble, and it will always stand apart as one of the great aberrations in man's history, and one that must never be forgotten. Men were capable of doing it then, and we can repeat it at any time if we fail to remain vigilant against intolerance, hatred and tyranny.
Sort of.... We technically supported them through the whole "a friend of a friend" type deal. (We did not support the genocide though, so don't put words in my mouth
) It's pretty interesting to read up on the subject. I'd say look it up on Wikipedia if you're bored.
AznAnarchy99
Lifer
- Dec 6, 2004
- 14,695
- 117
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We support alot of countries that we end up going against later on but thats for another discussion
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,584
- 985
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AznAnarchy99
Lifer
- Dec 6, 2004
- 14,695
- 117
- 106
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Taps sarcasm meter. It was a joke mixed in with little Pulp Fiction reference.
so went over my head. Plus never finished Pulp Fiction.. never have enough time =(
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