The H-1B Visa program brings "temporary" high-tech foreign workers (computer scientists and programmers) to the U.S. to fill an alleged "shortage" of American Information Technology (IT) workers. The high-tech industry vociferously lobbies Congress for increases in the number of H-1B workers. But the shortage is a myth.
The H-1B Visa program directly causes displacement of and age discrimination against American workers. This includes not only high-tech workers, but also accountants, administrators, engineers, technicians, doctors, nurses, and other categories. The result is devastation of lives and careers, all for the benefit of greedy corporate interests seeking cheap, docile, foreign labor.
There is not now, nor has there ever been, a shortage of IT workers in the United States. But the H1B system is hard at work creating such a shortage. As IT professionals who have major investments in their skills are forced out of technology and into other areas or forced to accept low wages that are not in line with such investments in education then there will be no such future investments.
Nobel economist Milton Friedman scoffs at the idea of the government stocking a farm system for the likes of Microsoft and Intel. "There is no doubt," he says, "that the [H-1B] program is a benefit to their employers, enabling them to get workers at a lower wage, and to that extent, it is a subsidy." Former Cato economist Steve Moore stated "Well, this is one of those wink-and-a-nod programs. Everybody expects most of these workers to stay." Laying off thousands of U.S. citizens and green-card holders while retaining "temporary" foreign workers adds fuel to a growing anger. So call the H-1B visa what it is: a subsidy that runs counter to the real interests of both IT workers and free-market thinkers. -- H-1B Is Just Another Gov't. Subsidy, by Paul Donnelly, Computerworld, July 22, 2002
Originally posted by: WingZero94
The H-1B Visa program brings "temporary" high-tech foreign workers (computer scientists and programmers) to the U.S. to fill an alleged "shortage" of American Information Technology (IT) workers. The high-tech industry vociferously lobbies Congress for increases in the number of H-1B workers. But the shortage is a myth.
The H-1B Visa program directly causes displacement of and age discrimination against American workers. This includes not only high-tech workers, but also accountants, administrators, engineers, technicians, doctors, nurses, and other categories. The result is devastation of lives and careers, all for the benefit of greedy corporate interests seeking cheap, docile, foreign labor.
There is not now, nor has there ever been, a shortage of IT workers in the United States. But the H1B system is hard at work creating such a shortage. As IT professionals who have major investments in their skills are forced out of technology and into other areas or forced to accept low wages that are not in line with such investments in education then there will be no such future investments.
Nobel economist Milton Friedman scoffs at the idea of the government stocking a farm system for the likes of Microsoft and Intel. "There is no doubt," he says, "that the [H-1B] program is a benefit to their employers, enabling them to get workers at a lower wage, and to that extent, it is a subsidy." Former Cato economist Steve Moore stated "Well, this is one of those wink-and-a-nod programs. Everybody expects most of these workers to stay." Laying off thousands of U.S. citizens and green-card holders while retaining "temporary" foreign workers adds fuel to a growing anger. So call the H-1B visa what it is: a subsidy that runs counter to the real interests of both IT workers and free-market thinkers. -- H-1B Is Just Another Gov't. Subsidy, by Paul Donnelly, Computerworld, July 22, 2002
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Let's see...the US economy is going into the crapper daily,
Good jobs are getting to be scarcer than hen's teeth...
The company wants to hire foreign workers.
Something VERY wrong with this IMO.
I think it's time to suspend ALL work visas...and hire only American workers.
"Thanks for your labor...now go home."
When a country doesn't have enough jobs for its own people, WHY keep bringing people from other countries to fill jobs?
Of course, that should also mean that we shut down our southern border too...No sense in letting foreigners take the manual labor work too...
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
If the company is going to hire a non citizen, it's better for our economy that it happens here in the US, rather than them going back to their native country, and getting a job for the same thing. This country was founded on foreigners, and if we don't let them continue to come here and develop our economy, we will suffer even more.
There are a lot of efforts to increase the ease of foreigners being able to work here, and it's with proper reason.
Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
If the company is going to hire a non citizen, it's better for our economy that it happens here in the US, rather than them going back to their native country, and getting a job for the same thing. This country was founded on foreigners, and if we don't let them continue to come here and develop our economy, we will suffer even more.
There are a lot of efforts to increase the ease of foreigners being able to work here, and it's with proper reason.
The foreigners who developed our economy STAYED here.......most H1B workers have no plans of staying here. They want to make money and take it back with them. That doesnt help us.
Originally posted by: Casawi
Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
If the company is going to hire a non citizen, it's better for our economy that it happens here in the US, rather than them going back to their native country, and getting a job for the same thing. This country was founded on foreigners, and if we don't let them continue to come here and develop our economy, we will suffer even more.
There are a lot of efforts to increase the ease of foreigners being able to work here, and it's with proper reason.
The foreigners who developed our economy STAYED here.......most H1B workers have no plans of staying here. They want to make money and take it back with them. That doesnt help us.
That is not true. Most people stay.
Originally posted by: kalster
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Ktulu
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Youre paying foreign workers to do work that Americans should be doing. Basically, youre giving foreign citizens american dollars......that money will be saved and taken back to whatever country they go back to. We need to keep that money in the US so it can currculate and fuel the economic engine. I personally work with and am friends with many H1B visa guys. They SAVE every penny they can, and invest it back into their home countries (one guy is buying land and building apartments).......that money should be spent here, not there.
:roll:
Excuse PimpJuice for caring about this country, somebody has too, our own politicians could give 2 shits about us.
If you don't hire H1B workers here in the US then companies will go directly to India/China, build plants and hire workers there.
Take your pick.
Why should anyone but me have a say on how my money is spent?
I became a citizen in 2002. You really think I'll spend all my life in America and retire here?
Heck no, I'll be going back home for retirement and will take every penny I've saved with me.
This is exactly what's wrong with this whole system. Your not even helping our economy it's almost as if you're just leeching.
how is it leeching, i pay thousands of dollars a year in medicare and social security tax that i will never ever use , I am on a h1b and will be leaving the US in a couple of years,
Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't see anything wrong with sending some money back to their families at home. It's called supporting your family -- recent immigrants don't usually just forget their families back home. Good God, it's like you're condemning people for caring about their families. Do we really want a world where kids just say, "Bye, thanks for raising me -- have a good life at the nursing home if you can afford it! I'm on my own now and have to think only of myself from now on!"
Sending some money back home has always been done. I was just watching the Food Channel the other day where Bobby Flay (?) did a special on the cuisine in Ireland. They told of the history of Ireland and the potato famine and how a great wave of immigration occurred during this period. They mentioned how the people left back in Ireland always greeted the "American Letter" with great hope because it always contained money sent back from their relatives in America.
And you should think about the big picture. How does keeping the rest of the world poor help us in the long run? When poor countries like China and India improve their living standards a new group of middle class will rise in those countries. Their wages will rise and pretty soon we will become competitive in terms of wages again. Jobs will then flow back into our country. In addition, there is now a larger group of consumers out in the world (because their living standards have improved) and the people there might think fondly of America and try to purchase "Made in America" products in the future because they think of those products as being higher quality and because they really really like us (because we're such a welcoming people who help others).
But instead all you guys are thinking in the short term -- you don't think about the long term good for our country and the world.
Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't mind helping those in need, but we need to look after ourselves first.
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't mind helping those in need, but we need to look after ourselves first.
Right...
So I should leave money here with you rather than send money back home to help my family members. :roll:
Originally posted by: aceO07
I think H1Bs are really supposed to fill roles that couldn't be filled by citizens. Specials skills and etc. I believe they have to advertise the opening for a few weeks and if nobody fits the role, than they go to H1Bs. The job description of the role and salary is also supposed to be posted publicly for anybody in the company to see (even after being hired).
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: StormRider
I don't see anything wrong with sending some money back to their families at home. It's called supporting your family -- recent immigrants don't usually just forget their families back home. Good God, it's like you're condemning people for caring about their families. Do we really want a world where kids just say, "Bye, thanks for raising me -- have a good life at the nursing home if you can afford it! I'm on my own now and have to think only of myself from now on!"
Sending some money back home has always been done. I was just watching the Food Channel the other day where Bobby Flay (?) did a special on the cuisine in Ireland. They told of the history of Ireland and the potato famine and how a great wave of immigration occurred during this period. They mentioned how the people left back in Ireland always greeted the "American Letter" with great hope because it always contained money sent back from their relatives in America.
And you should think about the big picture. How does keeping the rest of the world poor help us in the long run? When poor countries like China and India improve their living standards a new group of middle class will rise in those countries. Their wages will rise and pretty soon we will become competitive in terms of wages again. Jobs will then flow back into our country. In addition, there is now a larger group of consumers out in the world (because their living standards have improved) and the people there might think fondly of America and try to purchase "Made in America" products in the future because they think of those products as being higher quality and because they really really like us (because we're such a welcoming people who help others).
But instead all you guys are thinking in the short term -- you don't think about the long term good for our country and the world.
There is a very good reason why we have laws restricting how much money is permitted to be sent to certain countries such as Cuba. One of those reasons is the impact on our own economy. The US permits sending some money for the reasons you pointed out. Now matter how you slice it though, doing so hurts the US economy. It is a sacrifice that we permit for the "greater good" which I agree with to a point. However, the line needs to be drawn and old laws often need to be revisited depending on how much things change over time. Currently, our economy is hurting quite a bit and there has also been a steady increase in terms of how many people are taking advantage of sending money over the past 20 years. It is an issue which is worthy of revisiting and possibly placing some temporary restrictions on at least until we get back on our feet.
I don't mind helping those in need, but we need to look after ourselves first.
Originally posted by: StormRider
Are you sure about this? I have never heard of such a reason for this law. I have heard of limitations with sending money to Cuba but I have always thought this was because we have a trade embargo on them.
Other than for an embargo, we should be able to do with our money the way we see fit -- it's our money. Is there a law for how much money we can spend on our vacations when we go overseas? After all, we have to keep all our money in the US -- there should be limits on how much money we can spend on our foreign vacations.
BTW, you make it sound as though most immigrants send *all* their money back home. That's usually not the case. They send what they can to help -- they still have to spend money here on rent, food and bills. And my personal opinion is that it's their money and they should be able to do whatever they want with it.
Finally, I think immigrants are being scapegoated too much. The current economic crisis was not caused by immigrants sending some money back home to help their families. It was caused by our own greed and stupidity. The mortgage crisis was caused by greedy companies selling $500,000 mortgages to people making 50K/year. It's common sense that there's no way this could ever be repaid. It all sounded like a pyramid scheme to me. Keep repackaging these risky loans to someone else until it all crashes.
Originally posted by: aceO07
I think H1Bs are really supposed to fill roles that couldn't be filled by citizens. Specials skills and etc. I believe they have to advertise the opening for a few weeks and if nobody fits the role, than they go to H1Bs. The job description of the role and salary is also supposed to be posted publicly for anybody in the company to see (even after being hired).
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't mind helping those in need, but we need to look after ourselves first.
Right...
So I should leave money here with you rather than send money back home to help my family members. :roll:
Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't mind helping those in need, but we need to look after ourselves first.
Right...
So I should leave money here with you rather than send money back home to help my family members. :roll:
Nobody is saying that
I'm saying the US should not allow people like you to work here......but since you are already here, then do what you want, its your money. The number of H1Bs is ridiculous and its gotten to the point where it hurts our economy to spend money on foreign workers who dont help circulate the money within our own country.
I speak for those LIKE YOU who already have their mind made up to make the money and run. I'm all for immigrants who choose to migrate and settle here and improve our country.
Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't mind helping those in need, but we need to look after ourselves first.
Right...
So I should leave money here with you rather than send money back home to help my family members. :roll:
Nobody is saying that
I'm saying the US should not allow people like you to work here......but since you are already here, then do what you want, its your money. The number of H1Bs is ridiculous and its gotten to the point where it hurts our economy to spend money on foreign workers who dont help circulate the money within our own country.
I speak for those LIKE YOU who already have their mind made up to make the money and run. I'm all for immigrants who choose to migrate and settle here and improve our country.
Originally posted by: kalster
Originally posted by: PimpJuice
Originally posted by: Lothar
Originally posted by: Xavier434
I don't mind helping those in need, but we need to look after ourselves first.
Right...
So I should leave money here with you rather than send money back home to help my family members. :roll:
Nobody is saying that
I'm saying the US should not allow people like you to work here......but since you are already here, then do what you want, its your money. The number of H1Bs is ridiculous and its gotten to the point where it hurts our economy to spend money on foreign workers who dont help circulate the money within our own country.
I speak for those LIKE YOU who already have their mind made up to make the money and run. I'm all for immigrants who choose to migrate and settle here and improve our country.
i think the US economy would be in serious trouble if they did not allow h1b workers (or people like us as you say), there is a severe shortage of skilled employees in the tech industry, when I went to grad school here most students were Indians and Chinese , its not like h1b workers are going to walmart and stealing jobs from Americans, most of them are in positions that couldnt be filled by American citizens
Originally posted by: Imdmn04
God damn there so many people with sour grapes in this thread.
It's called capitalism, if you can't compete, then too bad. "Protecting" American workers is really a form of communism, just like trade tariffs, it's preventing a free flow of economic activity. If China can make shoes cheaper than Americans can, then we should buy them. If India can provide IT services cheaper than Americans can, then we should buy their service.
Yes, it sucks for the people that are losing their jobs in that particular industry, but in the bigger picture economy, the benefit outweighs the loss. By buying things that others can produce for cheaper than you can, you gain what is called a Competitive Advantage in micro-economics, it is the reason that we don't raise our own cattle for beef, or plant corn for veggie oil.
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: Imdmn04
God damn there so many people with sour grapes in this thread.
It's called capitalism, if you can't compete, then too bad. "Protecting" American workers is really a form of communism, just like trade tariffs, it's preventing a free flow of economic activity. If China can make shoes cheaper than Americans can, then we should buy them. If India can provide IT services cheaper than Americans can, then we should buy their service.
Yes, it sucks for the people that are losing their jobs in that particular industry, but in the bigger picture economy, the benefit outweighs the loss. By buying things that others can produce for cheaper than you can, you gain what is called a Competitive Advantage in micro-economics, it is the reason that we don't raise our own cattle for beef, or plant corn for veggie oil.
I completely agree. You should post your job here so we can find a cheaper replacement. Given the proper gov't support to import this person, we should be able to have you out on your ass in 2 wks or less.