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Gun sales continuing to skyrocket through 2013

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RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
So thirty years of polling data is not relevant because you think people are lying. This leads me to conclude that:

1. You don't know anything about statistics
2. You thought Romney was totally going to win in 2012.
Number 2 has nothing to do with this and you're just resorting to ad hominem attacks. Be a little more mature.

For 1, I'm saying the rate of tin foil hat wearers is growing, and the number of people answering truthfully is dropping. Depending who asks me, I deny owning guns. I would never answer yes to a survey that I thought would record my personal info AND my answer; I would only reply yes if I was sure that there was anonymity guaranteed.

The only numbers to trust in this specific example are total gun sales vs guns sold back to police departments. I'm unsure if gun sales includes USED gun sales, and whether we know how many guns were sold back to FFLs.

tl;dr: the number of actual gun owners is not a thing we can calculate. We can GUESS at it.
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
I would say the large number of guns would logically indicate a higher rate of violent crime, while at the same time, guns in the hands of "good guys" defending themselves bring that rate down to that of an unarmed country. So it's essentially a wash, with the suckers unwilling\unable to have a gun getting the short end of the stick.
Then that would mean that a city with an unarmed populace such as New York City would have a much higher crime rate than an well armed city such as Houston, Texas. However Houston's homicide rate is twice that of New York City.

Next argument please. . .
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,586
11
76
Then that would mean that a city with an unarmed populace such as New York City would have a much higher crime rate than an well armed city such as Houston, Texas. However Houston's homicide rate is twice that of New York City.

Next argument please. . .
Wait, your argument seems to suggest that the criminals in New York City would still have guns, and that no one else would. That can't be right.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
16,700
823
126
I do not know any gun owners shoot expensive defense rounds at the range in the number of hundreds of round per month for the whole year. The Hornady that I mentioned above is for my CCW, not for normal range use/practice.

Typical 9 mm to be use at the range would be around $.30 per round or less. I use these at the range:

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/blazer-brass-9mm-luger-115-grain-fmj-centerfire-pistol-ammunition/pid-768195?N=813859367+4294962971

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/winchester-usa-full-metal-jacket-9-mm-luger-115-grain-handgun-ammunition/pid-167351?N=813859367+4294962971

I usually use about 100 rounds to 200 rounds (cheap stuffs) per month (average overall per year - typically). So my ammo cost is about $30 to $50 per month (typically).
 
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Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
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You don't understand how to read statistical trends, at all. :rolleyes:
I posted 3 independent polls and the conclusions of both a left wing and a right wing newspaper. All five conclude that the number of households owning guns has declined over the past forty years. If you're uncomfortable with that, you can believe whatever you want.

Can't help ya.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,586
11
76
It's not really worth explaining it to you. I don't give a fuck what you have to say anyway. There could be a Sandy Hook every week for a year and it wouldn't change my opinion on the right of free me to possess relevant arms. I've personally used a firearm to defend myself numerous times.

 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
If that is true, then you have a source for your data, correct? Please post your source in your next reply.
I had it typed up a year ago. I really don't feel like retyping it all to resurrect this debate, but a quick search (while at work...I have bigger fish to fry than a pissing match with you)

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/violent-crime

1.2 million violent crimes.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_296191.pdf

1.9 million violent crimes in England and Whales; Scotland reports its crimes separately, so the real number for the UK (and we're also missing norther ireland) is going to be above 2 million.

US population is above 300 million.
UK population is almost 64 million.

I seem to remember realizing that the UK's reporting is wonky as well; the US reporting numbers are for crimes reported; the UK numbers are for crimes for which there is a conviction.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,586
11
76
I do not know any gun owners shoot expensive defense rounds at the range in the number of hundreds of round per month. The Hornady that I mentioned above is for my CCW, not for normal range use/practice.

Typical 9 mm to be use at the range would be around $.30 per round or less.

I usually use about 100 rounds to 200 rounds (cheap stuffs) per month (average overall per year - typically). So my ammo cost is about $30 to $50 per month (typically).
I usually shoot 250 rounds of Speer Gold Dots (or similar) a month plus another 500 rounds of 5.56... I don't really consider it a hobby though, I don't get much enjoyment out of shooting, it's not fun to me.
 

Venix

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2002
1,084
3
81
I posted 3 independent polls and the conclusions of both a left wing and a right wing newspaper. All five conclude that the number of households owning guns has declined over the past forty years. If you're uncomfortable with that, you can believe whatever you want.

Can't help ya.
Did you forgot that the population has increased by 100 million people over the same period? The charts simply suggest that the number of new gun owners hasn't kept up with population growth. There are still far more gun owners now than in 1970.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,244
3,043
126
Most of the gun grabbers are covert NRA gun manufacturers out to boost sales among the paranoid demented, a big source of their income. Anybody know a good deal on a colt combat commander 45? I have a fancy for one.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Then that would mean that a city with an unarmed populace such as New York City would have a much higher crime rate than an well armed city such as Houston, Texas. However Houston's homicide rate is twice that of New York City.

Next argument please. . .
About that:

http://www.city-data.com/city/New-York-New-York.html

NY's gun laws have actually only gotten stricter lately. Their crime rate has dropped independent of their gun ownership. I suggest you look up why they clamped down on jaywalking and such.

Let's instead look at a city that has for the longest time actually banned gun ownership:
http://www.city-data.com/city/Washington-District-of-Columbia.html

Their crime has dropped, tracking the US trend of crime rates dropping (crime rates did NOT spike as the Clinton AWB ended) but is still pretty high.

But wait: there's more people! Camera man, you getting this?

http://www.city-data.com/city/Chicago-Illinois.html

Another gun control utopia, with crime rates that are pretty bad. It'll be interesting how their violent crime rates trend now that they must give CPLs and allow gun ownership.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Most of the gun grabbers are covert NRA gun manufacturers out to boost sales among the paranoid demented, a big source of their income. Anybody know a good deal on a colt combat commander 45? I have a fancy for one.
I've said tin foil hat for a reason, but there was a real attempt to ban lead, ammunition sales, they've limited importation, NY is confiscating guns and so forth. Thanks to people like Bloomberg, there is a real fear of gun grabbers in some places, and fears of gun sales being banned in others (or ammunition permits being needed or other such crap.)
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
16,700
823
126
I usually shoot 250 rounds of Speer Gold Dots (or similar) a month plus another 500 rounds of 5.56... I don't really consider it a hobby though, I don't get much enjoyment out of shooting, it's not fun to me.
Are you in law enforcement or military?

I shoot to keep my skill up to date and to practice (just in case I have to use it). I don't do it just for "pure entertainment purpose/joy/happiness/fun to do".

My typical at the range 9 mm round is about $0.30 per round and .223/5.56 is about $0.40 per round.
 
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Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
It's not really worth explaining it to you. I don't give a fuck what you have to say anyway. There could be a Sandy Hook every week for a year and it wouldn't change my opinion on the right of free me to possess relevant arms. I've personally used a firearm to defend myself numerous times.

Bwahahahaha!

Here we go, the Anandtech gun Rambo who's defended himself not just ONCE but MULTIPLE TIMES with his guns.

Unless you were in the military and stationed overseas? Bull-fucking-shit.

You're about the third person in this forum that's had to 'go there' and say you actually used a gun in self defense. Nothing like throwing your argument in the shitter like using unlikely and unverifiable claims on the internet.
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
I've said tin foil hat for a reason, but there was a real attempt to ban lead, ammunition sales, they've limited importation, NY is confiscating guns and so forth. Thanks to people like Bloomberg, there is a real fear of gun grabbers in some places, and fears of gun sales being banned in others (or ammunition permits being needed or other such crap.)
So you're buying guns out of the fear that they'd be confiscated which was exactly my point in the first place. Why did it take you so long to confirm what I posted two pages ago?!?!?
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
0
Chart shows about a 15% drop in household ownership over the last 40 years. Pew Research and shows the same:

http://www.people-press.org/2013/03/12/section-3-gun-ownership-trends-and-demographics/

As does the General Social Survey.

The NYTimes writes about it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us/rate-of-gun-ownership-is-down-survey-shows.html

But if you don't like that Commie rag, try Glenn Beck's The Blaze for the exact same information: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/19/how-many-people-own-guns-in-america-and-is-gun-ownership-actually-declining/
And it also shows severe fluctuations, especially recently. Noise is not a downward trend. By your logic there was a "steady upward trend" in the early 90s.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,570
2
0
No. And I'm getting tired of having to explain my posts to you.

I'm saying we will NOT become a crime-ridden dystopia if we enact gun control. I didn't use tricky language or try to deceive you. You simply read what you wanted to read and then posted a rebuttal to what you really wanted to see.
No, with this clarification you just admitted to posting an irrelevant and unsubstantiated prediction. No wonder I misunderstood, I assumed you were at least making a relevant point.

Fact is right now we have a real "steady decline" of murder over several years and average crime in general is continuing to drop. Unless you have some evidence that says it's going to go back up unless we enact gun control, your point is unfounded speculation.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,244
3,043
126
I've said tin foil hat for a reason, but there was a real attempt to ban lead, ammunition sales, they've limited importation, NY is confiscating guns and so forth. Thanks to people like Bloomberg, there is a real fear of gun grabbers in some places, and fears of gun sales being banned in others (or ammunition permits being needed or other such crap.)
The greater the fear the more likely that fear will come to pass. We create what we fear out of the irrationality it produces. Some what to protect themselves with guns and others want to be protected from them. How you see it depends to a great degree on where you live. Each side should try to understand the other, but the fanatics and the fear mongers will make that impossible.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,586
11
76
Bwahahahaha!

Here we go, the Anandtech gun Rambo who's defended himself not just ONCE but MULTIPLE TIMES with his guns.

Unless you were in the military and stationed overseas? Bull-fucking-shit.

You're about the third person in this forum that's had to 'go there' and say you actually used a gun in self defense. Nothing like throwing your argument in the shitter like using unlikely and unverifiable claims on the internet.
What are you, new? I've been in two domestic shootings (one at my home, one after stumbling upon a nearly lethal "gay bashing,") in the late 90s and drawn a pistol to discourage what I perceived to be imminent violence several times in my life. I carry a pistol 95% of the time I leave the house.

I've also been in plenty of gun fights through multiple tours in Afghanistan.

I've never been in one as a reserve police officer, because I only work parades, and everyone loves a parade. :D

I'm not Rambo, Special Forces or a badass, but I've traveled all over the world and I know how things go when the bad guys have guns and the good guys don't. I hope to never see that happen here.
 

schneiderguy

Lifer
Jun 26, 2006
10,763
29
91
"Percentage of gun owning households" is meaningless by itself. I'd guess that the percentage of women living by themselves is much greater today than it was in 1960. Since women are much less likely to own a gun than males, this would decrease the percentage of households with guns even if the percentage of the population that owns a gun remains constant.
 

Venix

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2002
1,084
3
81
Then that would mean that a city with an unarmed populace such as New York City would have a much higher crime rate than an well armed city such as Houston, Texas. However Houston's homicide rate is twice that of New York City.

Next argument please. . .
Chicago has much stricter gun laws than New York City. Chicago's homicide rate is ten times higher than New York City's.

Plenty of cities with draconian firearm laws have high homicide rates, and plenty of cities awash in firearms don't. The only "conclusion" that can be drawn is that gun laws' impact on violent crime is inconclusive at best.
 

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