God is getting dementia/Alzheimers?

[Macamus Prime]

Religious people are not the issue - it's a bunch of crazy liars who are using God's name and image to get ahead in life.

The people mentioned in the OP are all liars. Unfaithful husband, witchcraft practitioner and butcher. They have no problem living a personal life if sin and evil acts, so they will gladly use God's name and image in anyway they can to get what they want.

Just because some of you have a chip on your shoulder for evil people that hide behind religion, it doesn't mean all religious people are bad.

Bad people also wear clothing, does that mean all clothing is bad as well?

And, when someone kills in the name of <insert name of God/religion/whatever> does that absolve the killer from being held against the crime committed?

 

[zsdersw]

...said the joker to the thief...

It's a convenient rationalization to replace conscience with "God"; as it removes the responsibility (in their mind) for the choices they make.

It also doesn't matter what particular deity it is, either. They're all equally preposterous.

 

[SagaLore]

I told my wife the plan that God has for me is to procreate with her daily...through her digestive tract and she just laughed at me.

How dare she go against God's will.

 

[cybrsage]

It's a convenient rationalization to replace conscience with "God"; as it removes the responsibility (in their mind) for the choices they make.

It also doesn't matter what particular deity it is, either. They're all equally preposterous.

Why do you say it is preposterous?

 

[zsdersw]

Why do you say it is preposterous?

As substitutes for conscience they are.

 

[cybrsage]

As substitutes for conscience they are.

Why do you say it is preposterous?

 

[zsdersw]

Why do you say it is preposterous?

Because they're ways of shifting responsibility for actions away from one's self to their deity of choice; "Why should I feel bad about what I did or said? God said it was the right thing to do".

We're all imperfect, so when we invoke the name of a supposedly perfect being as justification for why we do or don't do certain things we're just passing the buck.

We're all imperfect; using our flawed interpretation of a supposedly perfect being to justify anything is just a crutch; an attempt to compensate for our imperfection.

 

[cybrsage]

Because they're ways of shifting responsibility for actions away from one's self to their deity of choice; "Why should I feel bad about what I did or said? God said it was the right thing to do".

We're all imperfect, so when we invoke the name of a supposedly perfect being as justification for why we do or don't do certain things we're just passing the buck.

We're all imperfect; using our flawed interpretation of a supposedly perfect being to justify anything is just a crutch; an attempt to compensate for our imperfection.

Yes, it can be used that way. It is not always, nor even often, used that way. It is too broad a brush to paint with.

 

[Atreus21]

Because they're ways of shifting responsibility for actions away from one's self to their deity of choice; "Why should I feel bad about what I did or said? God said it was the right thing to do".

Curious. My observations have led to precisely the opposite conclusion. What possible motivation should we have to be responsible if, in the end, all of existence is for naught and we won't be held accountable for our life's actions?

God is the one rational reason I have for acting responsibly at all.

We're all imperfect, so when we invoke the name of a supposedly perfect being as justification for why we do or don't do certain things we're just passing the buck.

Those who invoke God as justification for doing inexplicable evil are indeed passing the buck.

But lots of reasons besides God have been used as justification for inexplicable evil. To me, the problem is not that people seek to avoid responsibility by blaming God, but that people seek to avoid responsibility at all.

We're all imperfect; using our flawed interpretation of a supposedly perfect being to justify anything is just a crutch; an attempt to compensate for our imperfection.

We're all looking for the meaning of life. That leads some to God and others elsewhere.

 

[zsdersw]

Yes, it can be used that way. It is not always, nor even often, used that way. It is too broad a brush to paint with.

In a way, that's also part of the problem. The very notion that some people use it that way or use it another way or use it in any other way paints a broader picture of something that's not divine or supreme, but of something that we imagine and create entirely on our own for ourselves; a comforting fantasy.

 

[sandorski]

Curious. My observations have led to precisely the opposite conclusion. What possible motivation should we have to be responsible if, in the end, all of existence is for naught and we won't be held accountable for our life's actions?

God is the one rational reason I have for acting responsibly at all.



Those who invoke God as justification for doing inexplicable evil are indeed passing the buck.

But lots of reasons besides God have been used as justification for inexplicable evil. To me, the problem is not that people seek to avoid responsibility by blaming God, but that people seek to avoid responsibility at all.



We're all looking for the meaning of life. That leads some to God and others elsewhere.

All are held responsible by their fellow Man.

 

[cybrsage]

In a way, that's also part of the problem. The very notion that some people use it that way or use it another way or use it in any other way paints a broader picture of something that's not divine or supreme, but of something that we imagine and create entirely on our own for ourselves; a comforting fantasy.

Not really. It just shows mankind can pervert anything.

 

[Atreus21]

All are held responsible by their fellow Man.

What if I'm smarter, stronger, and more powerful than my fellow men?

Joseph Stalin died naturally in his bed. Should he be held only to moral standards if he's sufficiently weak for authorities to apprehend him?

 

[zsdersw]

Curious. My observations have led to precisely the opposite conclusion. What possible motivation should we have to be responsible if, in the end, all of existence is for naught and we won't be held accountable for our life's actions?

God is the one rational reason I have for acting responsibly at all.

My reason for acting responsibly is my own happiness and the happiness of those with whom I associate.

Death, injury, and financial/social ruin are to be avoided.. and the only way to avoid those things long-term is to act responsibly and honestly.

Part of being happy is having relationships (of various kinds) with other people; actions on my part that lead to the end of those relationships will either reduce my happiness or make me unhappy.. and are to be avoided.

Those who invoke God as justification for doing inexplicable evil are indeed passing the buck.

But lots of reasons besides God have been used as justification for inexplicable evil. To me, the problem is not that people seek to avoid responsibility by blaming God, but that people seek to avoid responsibility at all.

Yes, avoiding responsibility.. by any means.. is wrong.

We're all looking for the meaning of life. That leads some to God and others elsewhere.

Yes, we each seek and make our own path.. and if it were truly left at that things would be a lot better. But that isn't where the story ends. Deities and various faiths and assertions are used to obtain dominion over or otherwise curtail the freedoms of others. That's a real problem... and one that probably isn't going away.

 

[zsdersw]

Not really. It just shows mankind can pervert anything.

Sure, mankind can pervert anything.. and that's the problem with religions and deities; we created them, yet some pretend they exist in a pure and perfect form.

 

[cybrsage]

You are partially correct. We created all but one of them.

However, go ahead and prove your claim that man created them.

 

[Atreus21]

My reason for acting responsibly is my own happiness and the happiness of those close to me.

What happens when your happiness conflicts with others' happiness? My question is not, "Why do you act responsibly" but rather "Why should you?"

Deities and various faiths and assertions and any other innumerable excuses are used to obtain dominion over others' freedoms. That's a real problem... and one that probably isn't going away.

Fixed.

 

[Infohawk]

What possible motivation should we have to be responsible if, in the end, all of existence is for naught and we won't be held accountable for our life's actions?

God is the one rational reason I have for acting responsibly at all.

There are multiple systems of ethics that don't require a god. They may disagree on what to do in certain complex situations but they all agree on the basics like not lying, not killing etc.

But really what it comes down to is the fact that if you're unethical you're not really going to be able to have good relations with friends or family or the rest of the world. People are really the ones who are policing each other, not god.

 

[zsdersw]

You are partially correct. We created all but one of them.

Oh? Which one didn't we create?

However, go ahead and prove your claim that man created them.

You have to answer the question I asked at the beginning of this post first.

 

[Atreus21]

There are multiple systems of ethics that don't require a god. They may disagree on what to do in certain complex situations but they all agree on the basics like not lying, not killing etc.

What is the ultimate basis of these ethical systems? That it's not good for society?

But really what it comes down to is the fact that if you're unethical you're not really going to be able to have good relations with friends or family or the rest of the world. People are really the ones who are policing each other, not god.

I'm not exactly sure how to respond except that I disagree. It's not really possible to prove that God is policing people. He's not down there on the street corner directing traffic.

I suppose I'd say that if an ethical system has no basis in some claim to something larger than human systems of justice, then it's really saying, "Do what we say because it's good for society, not because it's objectively good or evil."

If killing people happens to be deemed "good for society" (which arguably is already being done), what argument which doesn't make a claim to the divine sanctity of human life can possibly stand against it?

 

[zsdersw]

What happens when your happiness conflicts with others' happiness? My question is not, "Why do you act responsibly" but rather "Why should you?"

Avoiding conflict increases happiness.

Fixed.

No, you just added words. The "various faiths and assertions" I mentioned includes and refers to the "innumerable excuses" you added.

 

[zsdersw]

I'm not exactly sure how to respond except that I disagree. It's not really possible to prove that God is policing people. He's not down there on the street corner directing traffic.

I suppose I'd say that if an ethical system has no basis in some claim to something larger than human systems of justice, then it's really saying, "Do what we say because it's good for society, not because it's objectively good or evil."

If killing people happens to be deemed "good for society" (which arguably is already being done), what argument which doesn't make a claim to the divine sanctity of human life can possibly stand against it?

The "claim to something larger than human systems of justice" is imperfect as we are all imperfect.

Our imperfection alone doesn't disprove the existence of a supreme being, but it does disprove the rationale for using our beliefs about a supreme being as the truth that everyone else must know and believe.

 

[Atreus21]

The "claim to something larger than human systems of justice" is imperfect as we are all imperfect.

Ironic, considering that imperfection is fundamentally a Christian doctrine; the doctrine of the fall.

Just because we're imperfect doesn't mean we can't conceive perfection.

 

[Atreus21]

Avoiding conflict increases happiness.

Might be taking this a bit far, but I'd bet the Jews who were liberating by American and Soviet forces in WWII might disagree with that.

 

[zsdersw]

Just because we're imperfect doesn't mean we can't conceive perfection.

And no more to the point than the fact that what we can imagine and what we can make real are two very different things.