God is getting dementia/Alzheimers?

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Anyone who believes he was called by God is psychotic.

What if somebody is called by God and denies it? How do you tell he is psychotic compared to somebody else who says he is not called? If you can't tell somebody who has been called from somebody who hasn't how can you say who is psychotic. You are just pretending that psychotic means thinking you are called by God but that's absurd. Psychosis is something you can see.

So in reality you must be crazy because you think you can say who is crazy when they say something you couldn't see if they didn't say it. When you make up shit like this surely you can see that I have to suspect God told you to say it. You had to have gotten such an absurd idea from somewhere, this revealed truth that you claim.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,027
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What if somebody is called by God and denies it? How do you tell he is psychotic compared to somebody else who says he is not called? If you can't tell somebody who has been called from somebody who hasn't how can you say who is psychotic. You are just pretending that psychotic means thinking you are called by God but that's absurd. Psychosis is something you can see.

So in reality you must be crazy because you think you can say who is crazy when they say something you couldn't see if they didn't say it. When you make up shit like this surely you can see that I have to suspect God told you to say it. You had to have gotten such an absurd idea from somewhere, this revealed truth that you claim.

If you were in a lab, and the bacteria start talking to you by writing words in english on the petri dish and then hiding them when you call other people to look at it, would you say "omg the bacteria are talking to me" or would you seriously question if you are losing your mind? Even if the bacteria are speaking to you through words on the petri dish, you'd at least have to strongly consider that someone is pulling your leg and then would go out of your way to catch them in the act.

How is that situation any different from someone who says he speaks to God and God only speaks to him? And why aren't they ever freaked the hell out like I would be if the bacteria were talking to me? Instead they simply accept that this mysterious voice is speaking to them and only them and don't try to find, oh for example, the speakers under the bed, or in the closet, or whatever cleverly designed prank is being played on them. I'm not saying that God doesn't speak to people, but more that is is psychosis to simply accept his speaking to you without a great deal of disbelief and effort to expose it all as one big fraud.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,441
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If you were in a lab, and the bacteria start talking to you by writing words in english on the petri dish and then hiding them when you call other people to look at it, would you say "omg the bacteria are talking to me" or would you seriously question if you are losing your mind? Even if the bacteria are speaking to you through words on the petri dish, you'd at least have to strongly consider that someone is pulling your leg and then would go out of your way to catch them in the act.

How is that situation any different from someone who says he speaks to God and God only speaks to him? And why aren't they ever freaked the hell out like I would be if the bacteria were talking to me? Instead they simply accept that this mysterious voice is speaking to them and only them and don't try to find, oh for example, the speakers under the bed, or in the closet, or whatever cleverly designed prank is being played on them. I'm not saying that God doesn't speak to people, but more that is is psychosis to simply accept his speaking to you without a great deal of disbelief.

You can be sure that most folk to whom God speaks are not surprised at all. Surely you understand that God only speaks to very worthwhile people.

Worthless folk like me are way way down the list.

And surely, if God did speak to you you would instantly recognize the Authority, and not question Him, right? I'm pretty damn sure that the day God speaks to me I'll know it.

Now that I think about it, in fact, I remember a strange event from long ago where I sang a song to a flowing echo and all the words to it appeared as I sung put there the moment I needed them to come out. Looking back on it I see it's very strange, but at the time I know for sure it wasn't me that was singing.

I recall now also, a TV show I saw, where some 40 year old man, who had experienced many a blow to the head, got hit again and suddenly could play the most amazingly beautiful piano instantly without having taken a single lesson, and who is now a professional song writer and musician. He sees the notes fly by, left to right, in space before his eyes, and the notes tell his fingers what to do.

In order to understand this stuff, in my opinion at least, we are going to have to do a lot more than look under a petri dish.
 
Oct 25, 2006
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Some people unlock talents they never knew they had, 95% of the rest of the world suffers from disease, cruelty, torture, and death.

Our god is an awesome god.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,027
2,595
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You can be sure that most folk to whom God speaks are not surprised at all. Surely you understand that God only speaks to very worthwhile people.

Worthless folk like me are way way down the list.

And surely, if God did speak to you you would instantly recognize the Authority, and not question Him, right? I'm pretty damn sure that the day God speaks to me I'll know it.

Now that I think about it, in fact, I remember a strange event from long ago where I sang a song to a flowing echo and all the words to it appeared as I sung put there the moment I needed them to come out. Looking back on it I see it's very strange, but at the time I know for sure it wasn't me that was singing.

I recall now also, a TV show I saw, where some 40 year old man, who had experienced many a blow to the head, got hit again and suddenly could play the most amazingly beautiful piano instantly without having taken a single lesson, and who is now a professional song writer and musician. He sees the notes fly by, left to right, in space before his eyes, and the notes tell his fingers what to do.

In order to understand this stuff, in my opinion at least, we are going to have to do a lot more than look under a petri dish.

"You can be sure that most folk to whom God speaks are not surprised at all".

Thus the psychosis. I should actually use the word delusion (though modern psychiatry gives a pass on religion as a delusional disorder simply because it more or less had to be grandfathered in. New religions though depending on how zany they are can be considered folie a deux aka mass delusional disorder). If someone said to you "you know the bacteria are talking to me with words on the petri dish and I am not surprised at all", what would you say?

"And surely, if God did speak to you you would instantly recognize the Authority, and not question Him, right? I'm pretty damn sure that the day God speaks to me I'll know it."

History is littered with episodes where europeans were greeted as gods by cultures they visited. This is like an aztec who has never seen a european saying "if I heard a european speak, I'd recognize it as a european". Or consider if the bacteria on the petri dish were claiming to be the creator of the universe? Surely you'd raise an eyebrow or two? Even more convincing, is we have proven diagnoseable medical conditions where people claim God is directly speaking to them. The only way we prove it is because he's telling them to do things society considers unconventional and telling the individuals they have powers that society considers impossible (like flying). Look up paranoid schizophrenia and tell me again if you're sure you can truly recognize the voice of God if it speaks to you.

"I recall now also, a TV show I saw, where some 40 year old man, who had experienced many a blow to the head, got hit again and suddenly could play the most amazingly beautiful piano instantly without having taken a single lesson, and who is now a professional song writer and musician. He sees the notes fly by, left to right, in space before his eyes, and the notes tell his fingers what to do."

So what? People have had head trauma and become homosexual afterwards, before being completely heterosexual. People have had head trauma and acquired new languages, had extreme personality changes, and etc. And so on. People also wake up and forget who their wives, kids, and themselves are. Strange unexplained occurrences doesn't necessitate the existence of other sentience. They simply explain our lack of understanding of certain subjects. People used to think disease was caused by evil spirits and that not bathing would keep those spirits away by bad smell. Now we know what causes most disease. The diseases we don't know what causes them, we don't assume its the devil or evil spirits. We simply concede that we don't understand the process.
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Is God really getting dementia/Alzheimers after creating singlehandedly our solar system some 4.5 billion years ago. Now there is maybe a good question that begs an answer!

But then again, if God fails to strike down various idiots who pretend to know the real mind of God, yes dementia/Alzheimers could be the correct answer. Or maybe God has just been taking a short Nap for the past billion years or so. And will wake up soon and realize some things have kinda gotten out of hand.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,053
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Claiming a god has called on one to act is a circular appeal to authority. "God wants me to do this" is almost equivalent to "I want to do this" with one key difference. That difference is in acceptance of personal responsibilty for the decisions one makes. The person who says "I wanted to do this so I did this" is accepting responsibility for the decision and the conduct. The person who says "I did this because this is what God wanted me to do" is abdicating responsibility for their own decision and conduct. If candidates can't even accept responsibilty for their decsion to run for public office I don't trust them to hold office.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Claiming a god has called on one to act is a circular appeal to authority. "God wants me to do this" is almost equivalent to "I want to do this" with one key difference. That difference is in acceptance of personal responsibilty for the decisions one makes. The person who says "I wanted to do this so I did this" is accepting responsibility for the decision and the conduct. The person who says "I did this because this is what God wanted me to do" is abdicating responsibility for their own decision and conduct. If candidates can't even accept responsibilty for their decsion to run for public office I don't trust them to hold office.
That's actually a really good point.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,441
6,091
126
We simply concede that we don't understand the process.

Yes, That is exactly my point. You don't understand but not understanding, you force on yourself all sorts of conclusions. Your lack of understanding makes you leap to all sorts of conclusions and all sorts of certainties too. My not understanding leaves me empty of opinion. For you to have God speak to somebody means they are crazy. But I don't know what they are. You strike me as much the same as a religious person, trying to find certainty. You seek it in reason and they in faith. But it looks like the same inability to handle the unknown to me.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Only those who hold the faith based belief that God does not exist can say God cannot talk to people. Only those who hold the faith based belief that God exists can say God does talk to people.

In both cases, a faith based belief is required. Faith is belief without proof (supporting evidence).
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,027
2,595
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Science cannot prove the existence of god. However, science can prove that for a good subset of people who say God speaks to them directly, they have legitimate pathological biological reasons for thinking so (paranoid schizophrenia). That alone throws doubt on all who claim they hear God speak to them directly.

I liken it to the guy who first found out that one particular bacteria causes one particular disease, and not spirits as previously assumed. Its possible that other diseases truly are caused by spirits, but his discovery should make you question a little harder when someone claims they are sick because of a spirit.
 
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Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,943
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Only those who hold the faith based belief that God does not exist can say God cannot talk to people.
Then how am I able to say God cannot talk to people?

God cannot talk to people.

There. How did that happen?

Only those who hold the faith based belief that God exists can say God does talk to people.
I'm about to perform the impossible...

God does talk to people.

Holy shit. How'd I say that too?

In both cases, a faith based belief is required. Faith is belief without proof (supporting evidence).
Actually all it takes is some knowledge of the language.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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Then how am I able to say God cannot talk to people?

God cannot talk to people.

There. How did that happen?

You have a mouth, lungs, tongue, vocal cords, and a larnyx. You pushed air out of your lungs, through your vocal cords, which vibrated when you did so. You then shaped the air coming out of your mouth via your mouth and your tongue, creating sounds which create the words you desired to say.

Most people intuitively understand this process, but you needed it explained to you. Interesting thing to know about you.


I'm about to perform the impossible...

God does talk to people.

Holy shit. How'd I say that too?


Actually all it takes is some knowledge of the language.

As I showed, above, it take a bit more than simply having some knowledge of a language. I suspect it was your magic man who said it for you, though. Is that what happened? Be honest.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Science cannot prove the existence of god. However, science can prove that for a good subset of people who say God speaks to them directly, they have legitimate pathological biological reasons for thinking so (paranoid schizophrenia). That alone throws doubt on all who claim they hear God speak to them directly.

Can you show the study which details this info?
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,943
541
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You have a mouth, lungs, tongue, vocal cords, and a larnyx. You pushed air out of your lungs, through your vocal cords, which vibrated when you did so. You then shaped the air coming out of your mouth via your mouth and your tongue, creating sounds which create the words you desired to say.
I didn't use any of those things to type the words in my post. How in the world do YOU type?



Most people intuitively understand this process, but you needed it explained to you. Interesting thing to know about you.
I'm not the one that thinks I typed those words (that I am allegedly able to say, according to you) with my mouth.




As I showed, above, it take a bit more than simply having some knowledge of a language. I suspect it was your magic man who said it for you, though. Is that what happened? Be honest.
Since you asked me to be honest, I will gladly tell you that it seems honesty is such a foreign concept to you that you wouldn't know it if it shat on your head.

Honest.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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I didn't use any of those things to type the words in my post. How in the world do YOU type?

Then how am I able to say God cannot talk to people?


I'm not the one that thinks I typed those words (that I am allegedly able to say, according to you) with my mouth.

Then how am I able to say God cannot talk to people?


Since you asked me to be honest, I will gladly tell you that it seems honesty is such a foreign concept to you that you wouldn't know it if it shat on your head.

Honest.

Is that your strange and round about way of saying the magic man you have living with you said it for you?
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,027
2,595
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Can you show the study which details this info?

Look up the definition of schizophrenia and you'll see delusions of grandeur and hyperreligiosity as part of the defining characteristics, in addition to other aspects of pyschosis. Its well accepted that schizophrenia, like depression, bipolar disorder and other psychiatric disorders is a spectrum. There are people who are relatively high functioning and some that cannot exist in socieity. Presumably, there are people who live at subclinical levels, where they have schizophrenic features, but not enough to bring them to diagnosis. Often these guys who have brief psychotic breaks, then return to normalcy often end up being schizophrenics in the end. And the disorder is extremely common, alleged to afflict roughly 1 out of 100 people in some form.

In more practical terms, when you actually work with schizophrenics there are many themes that recur primarily
1) hearing voices (internally and externally)
2) belief that they are more powerful or have different powers than normal people
3) beliefs that they are more righteous than others
4) beliefs that they are being persecuted by difficult to define forces
5) loss of a sense of humor
6) loss of abstract thinking

When I say when you work with schizophrenics I mean just that. When you actually work in a psychiatric hospital administering medications and giving therapy to schizophrenics, these themes are extremely common. In terms of pathologic biological details, you can look on pubmed about all sorts of neuroscience and MRI based studies where they show real tangible differences in their brain structure compared to controls (usually hippocampal issues if I remember). There are also interesting behavioral studies with schizophrenics that show how visual illusions that confuse normal people are completely missed by schizophrenics (ie you see both the face and the vase in the picture, but they can never see the face and wonder if you're crazy).
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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Look up the definition of schizophrenia...

None of this addressed my post which you quoted. I will repost so you do not "forget" what both you and I wrote (bolding done by me):

Science cannot prove the existence of god. However, science can prove that for a good subset of people who say God speaks to them directly, they have legitimate pathological biological reasons for thinking so (paranoid schizophrenia). That alone throws doubt on all who claim they hear God speak to them directly.


cybrsage said:
Can you show the study which details this info?