God is getting dementia/Alzheimers?

[zsdersw]

Might be taking this a bit far, but I'd bet the Jews who were liberating by American and Soviet forces in WWII might disagree with that.

That's taking it off the deep end.

 

[Infohawk]

What is the ultimate basis of these ethical systems? That it's not good for society?

There are different reasons for the different systems but basically they start in a framework of reason and not faith.

I'm not exactly sure how to respond except that I disagree. It's not really possible to prove that God is policing people. He's not down there on the street corner directing traffic.

I suppose I'd say that if an ethical system has no basis in some claim to something larger than human systems of justice, then it's really saying, "Do what we say because it's good for society, not because it's objectively good or evil."

If killing people happens to be deemed "good for society" (which arguably is already being done), what argument which doesn't make a claim to the divine sanctity of human life can possibly stand against it?

It's not that it's good for society. It's that it's good for you. On a practical level, putting aside all the theoretical arguments, do you really know a lot of happy people that are really unethical (and I don't mean religious)? Or is it your experience that happy people are people who tend to be good to their friends and family? A lot of these behaviors are evolutionary-selected traits at this point.

 

[cybrsage]

Oh? Which one didn't we create?

You have to answer the question I asked at the beginning of this post first.

Which question is that? If it is one you answered AFTER my question, then I will not. You need to answer the one posed to you before I will answer your question. That would be asking you to post your supporting info.

If it was before mine, repost the question.

 

[Nemesis 1]

When taken out of context, you can create any type of thing you wish. God did not mind that people were creating, being successful, etc. The issue was with mankind deluding itself that we are as powerful as God because we can build a tall tower.

It was the impending destruction of ourselves in a very rapid manner that God did not like or want to see happen.


But as an aside, I would bet against you in a war against God.

Pure garbage . Your using the same thing the HRCC tried to teach . Either god said this or he didn't . Its not a real story its a lesson . Screw that . I don't need a interpreter if the Bible is truth only . its a lie with a little truth mixed in . Did not satan offer the whole earth for the christ to rule in the desert . or is that open to interpretaion also . Did not christ choose 12 apostles yet we have only for gosphels and that is written in a manner that fisherman couldn't have done . Was not Paul the great deciever not choozen by the holy spirit . When Christ said none can be saved least it be threw christ . are all these things open to your wise interpretaion . Go on decieving . My foot on your head will feel rather good.

 

[cybrsage]

Pure garbage . Your using the same thing the HRCC tried to teach . Either god said this or he didn't . Its not a real story its a lesson . Screw that . I don't need a interpreter if the Bible is truth only . its a lie with a little truth mixed in . Did not satan offer the whole earth for the christ to rule in the desert . or is that open to interpretaion also . Did not christ choose 12 apostles yet we have only for gosphels and that is written in a manner that fisherman couldn't have done . Was not Paul the great deciever not choozen by the holy spirit . When Christ said none can be saved least it be threw christ . are all these things open to your wise interpretaion . Go on decieving . My foot on your head will feel rather good.

Wow, such hatred...it has made your post quite unreadable. Try again after you have cooled your head a bit.

But to aid you in understanding what what context means:

“If we keep talking about the economy, we’re going to lose.” Pres. Obama
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...-distortions/2011/11/28/gIQArysM6N_story.html

Read the article...it is a quote taken out of context..and even worse the quote was of another quote taken out of context. Obama took a quote out of context from someone who may never have actually worked for McCain and attributed to McCain when he was running for President. Romney is now taking Obama's out of context quote out of context as well.

Context is very important. A large part of context is understanding what was happening at the time.

 

[shira]

Curious. My observations have led to precisely the opposite conclusion. What possible motivation should we have to be responsible if, in the end, all of existence is for naught and we won't be held accountable for our life's actions?

God is the one rational reason I have for acting responsibly at all.



Those who invoke God as justification for doing inexplicable evil are indeed passing the buck.

But lots of reasons besides God have been used as justification for inexplicable evil. To me, the problem is not that people seek to avoid responsibility by blaming God, but that people seek to avoid responsibility at all.



We're all looking for the meaning of life. That leads some to God and others elsewhere.

You're making a huge assumption: That those who seek to do "God's will" have some way of telling what "God's will" actually is. Do you doubt that the Taliban or Al Qaida think they're doing "God's will?" And if they're mistaken, why can't you and everyone else who believes in God be mistaken?

You used the phrase "inexplicable evil" in the sentence I bolded above. But how can you possibly know what's evil and what isn't? Are you claiming that you have conversations with God, and he tells you what's right and wrong? And if so, I can point to lots of terrorists who claim the same thing.

Even if God has defined some absolute morality for the universe, how can mankind possibly know what that morality is?

The point is that "morality" comes from mankind, not from God. It's mankind that reads the "sacred texts" and listens to the religious leaders and decides what the rules are. God doesn't write the rules; mankind does.

 

[Nemesis 1]

All are held responsible by their fellow Man.

Who is worthy to Judge?

 

[cybrsage]

You're making a huge assumption: That those who seek to do "God's will" have some way of telling what "God's will" actually is. Do you doubt that the Taliban or Al Qaida think they're doing "God's will?" And if they're mistaken, why can't you and everyone else who believes in God be mistaken?

One being wrong does not make all wrong. There are many who follow false gods.

You used the phrase "inexplicable evil" in the sentence I bolded above. But how can you possibly know what's evil and what isn't? Are you claiming that you have conversations with God, and he tells you what's right and wrong? And if so, I can point to lots of terrorists who claim the same thing.

Even if God has defined some absolute morality for the universe, how can mankind possibly know what that morality is?

The point is that "morality" comes from mankind, not from God. It's mankind that reads the "sacred texts" and listens to the religious leaders and decides what the rules are. God doesn't write the rules; mankind does.

These last are actually very good questions. Firstly, we must define Evil. Evil is the absense of good, must like cold is the absense of heat and dark is the absense of light. Dark, cold, and evil are not items in and of themselves, but simply the words we use to represent the absense of the other form.

God (for clairity, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), by definition, is good. Evil is the absense of good...the absense of God.

Now, we know what is good and what is evil by reading the guide God inspired His prophets to right. It is a basic handbook, and is actually quite a good guide to use.

God fed the thoughts and feelings into His prophets so they would turn them into the words He wanted us to have. We then merely have to follow them. Sounds easy on the face of it, but it certainly is not.

 

[Nemesis 1]

One being wrong does not make all wrong. There are many who follow false gods.



These last are actually very good questions. Firstly, we must define Evil. Evil is the absense of good, must like cold is the absense of heat and dark is the absense of light. Dark, cold, and evil are not items in and of themselves, but simply the words we use to represent the absense of the other form.

God (for clairity, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), by definition, is good. Evil is the absense of good...the absense of God.

Now, we know what is good and what is evil by reading the guide God inspired His prophets to right. It is a basic handbook, and is actually quite a good guide to use.

God fed the thoughts and feelings into His prophets so they would turn them into the words He wanted us to have. We then merely have to follow them. Sounds easy on the face of it, but it certainly is not.

Actually From the prophets mouth to the scribes pen wouldn't you say thats more in accord with reality.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Wow, such hatred...it has made your post quite unreadable. Try again after you have cooled your head a bit...

Save your energy.
It's Nemesis. He requires neither hatred nor heat to make his posts quite incomprehensible.

 

[werepossum]

In a related story, G-d reportedly made several phone calls just after saying "Hey, y'all watch this shit!"

 

[zsdersw]

Which question is that? If it is one you answered AFTER my question, then I will not. You need to answer the one posed to you before I will answer your question. That would be asking you to post your supporting info.

If it was before mine, repost the question.

The question I posed to you is: which religion/deity didn't we create?

I think all of them are man-made, so in order to post supporting info to the question you raised I need to know which one you believe was not created by us humans. You already believe the others were man-made.

I suspect nothing either of us will say hasn't already been refuted in each of our own minds, but I'll play along.

No one who believes strongly in any particular deity believes that deity was man-made; they believe it has always existed and is in some or many ways supreme. Some are believed to be the "creator god" while others are not. Another common trait in those who believe strongly in a deity is that all other deities are lesser or not "true" deities.

Variability/variety and human imperfection are the biggest threats to your argument that there is one non-manmade deity.

 

[cybrsage]

The question I posed to you is: which religion/deity didn't we create?

Ah, then you need to answer mine first, since it was posted first.

I think all of them are man-made, so in order to post supporting info to the question you raised I need to know which one you believe was not created by us humans. You already believe the others were man-made.

No, you need to show your support for all of them, since that is your claim.

No one who believes strongly in any particular deity believes that deity was man-made; they believe it has always existed and is in some or many ways supreme. Some are believed to be the "creator god" while others are not. Another common trait in those who believe strongly in a deity is that all other deities are lesser or not "true" deities.

Variability/variety and human imperfection are the biggest threats to your argument that there is one non-manmade deity.

None of that is any actual supporting evidence for your view. You basically said "cause I said so". I can accept that, since I have no problems with a faith based belief system. However your view would not be greater then my view, since mine is also based on faith.

Are you willing to say your claim that man created god(s) is a faith based belief sytem?



But to answer your question, I believe the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the true God. All others are false gods.

 

[cybrsage]

Actually From the prophets mouth to the scribes pen wouldn't you say thats more in accord with reality.

It depends on how literate the prophet was. If he could write (as most Israelite prophets could) and was not too old to actually do the writing (writing was not an easy task way back then, specifically as your eyesight and coordination started to fail with age), then he very well may have written said items himself.

That does not change the inspirational source of the items written, though.


EDIT: Still interested in what you were trying to say in the one post I quoted, above. Can you restate it with more clarity?

 

[zsdersw]

Ah, then you need to answer mine first, since it was posted first.

Not when my answer depends on your answer to my question.

No, you need to show your support for all of them, since that is your claim.

I treat each one with the same level of incredulity and skepticism, so the question of proof of their being man-made doesn't hinge upon whether I talk about one or all of them.

None of that is any actual supporting evidence for your view. You basically said "cause I said so". I can accept that, since I have no problems with a faith based belief system. However your view would not be greater then my view, since mine is also based on faith.

Are you willing to say your claim that man created god(s) is a faith based belief sytem?

The evidence supporting the theory that mankind evolved from a less developed form of life is quite compelling. The evidence that a being did or did not start the process of evolution on this planet, however, does not exist at this point. Even if it did, though, and a supreme being of some kind did start the process of evolution, millions of years ago, here on Earth.. what reason is there to believe that this supreme being resembles any of the deities we have up to this point?

But to answer your question, I believe the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the true God. All others are false gods.

No doubt you do.

 

[cybrsage]

Not when my answer depends on your answer to my question.

Why would knowing which of the gods I worship change your answer as to why ALL gods are not real?

I treat each one with the same level of incredulity and skepticism, so the question of proof of their being man-made doesn't hinge upon whether I talk about one or all of them.

Then your answer does not depend on my answer.

The evidence supporting the theory that mankind evolved from a less developed form of life is quite compelling.

So? Why can't God use the natural forces He created to make what He wants to make?

The evidence that a being did or did not start the process of evolution on this planet, however, does not exist at this point. Even if it did, though, and a supreme being of some kind did start the process of evolution, millions of years ago, here on Earth.. what reason is there to believe that this supreme being resembles any of the deities we have up to this point?

Because He told us a bit about Himself.

So do you hold the faith based belief that there is no God?

 

[zsdersw]

Why would knowing which of the gods I worship change your answer as to why ALL gods are not real?

Because you think one of them is real, and I would answer your question in the context of that particular god.

Then your answer does not depend on my answer.

Yes it does, as per the previous paragraph.

So? Why can't God use the natural forces He created to make what He wants to make?

The statement I made about evolution is not the salient point.

Because He told us a bit about Himself.

Who did he tell, exactly? What, exactly, did he tell them about himself?

So do you hold the faith based belief that there is no God?

I make the reason-based theory that if there is a "God".. that started the process of evolution that resulted in the forms of life we have.. he/she/it is nothing like any of the ones we as a species have imagined or chose to have faith in.

 

[Bateluer]

Lmao. The bum on the corner also speaks to god. Maybe we should put him in charge?

Ironically, the bum may be a better Congressperson than Congress.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Wow, such hatred...it has made your post quite unreadable. Try again after you have cooled your head a bit.

This god you defend and that bible . What does it say about the second Christ return, Is he returning Like the Christ of your Bible Or the Bearer of destruction . You would say for the love of People, No he already did that! This Christ will you use Evil against Evil. this Christ will use good against evil . THIS CHRIST HATES EVIL. For the sake of his people. Your wrong about your perception of Christ as well as his teachings.

 

[cybrsage]

This god you defend and that bible . What does it say about the second Christ return, Is he returning Like the Christ of your Bible Or the Bearer of destruction .

They are one in the same, and it depends on which side you stand.

You would say for the love of People, No he already did that! This Christ will you use Evil against Evil. this Christ will use good against evil . THIS CHRIST HATES EVIL. For the sake of his people. Your wrong about your perception of Christ as well as his teachings.

Evil is the absense of good. In such a way, it is like dark being the absense of light and cold being the absense of heat. Dark and Cold do not exist in and of themselves, they are simply words we use to describe not-light and not-hot. Evil is not-good.

Since God, by definition, is good, God cannot be the absense of good. This would make God the absense of God, which simply cannot be.

So Jesus, who is one portion of the triunity of God, is God as well, then Jesus is also Good and cannot be or do Evil. Thus, your argument fails.

You also have to remember that people are not their actions. You can love the sinner while hating the sin. People can change, sin stays sin.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Define =Evil is going against ones nature. Evil is creating law that under binding by oath. Than trying to be your natural self causing you to sin because you broke your oath . What seperates man from animal is that we have a spirit . Your actions are determined By our Minds and influenced by our heart . Now we have confliction. Between the Mind and the heart resides the spirit. If the mind or heart do not listen to their spirit You become out of balance with Humanity and your nature as well as nature itself. SO my friend trying to be to GOOD can be a bad thing.

 

[wirelessenabled]

When taken out of context, you can create any type of thing you wish. God did not mind that people were creating, being successful, etc. The issue was with mankind deluding itself that we are as powerful as God because we can build a tall tower.

It was the impending destruction of ourselves in a very rapid manner that God did not like or want to see happen.


But as an aside, I would bet against you in a war against God.

How much you want to bet?

First some ground rules for the contest.

1. Both parties must be present and visible to the spectators.
2. No action at a distance shit.
3. Neutral judge will decide if anything actually happened.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Really! If you hold true to your faith and what it teaches . Than it seems to me your God is at war with Himself . Did he not create us in his image . If so than he would want us to aspire to be god like. He would also be out of balance with nature which leads to self destruction. Your god is the deceiver,

 

[cybrsage]

Define =Evil is going against ones nature. Evil is creating law that under binding by oath. Than trying to be your natural self causing you to sin because you broke your oath .

No. There are people whose nature says they should sexually abuse children. There are people whose nature says they should murder others. You claim it is evil if they do NOT do these things. That is absurd.

What seperates man from animal is that we have a spirit .

Actually, animals have spirt as well.

Your actions are determined By our Minds and influenced by our heart . Now we have confliction. Between the Mind and the heart resides the spirit. If the mind or heart do not listen to their spirit You become out of balance with Humanity and your nature as well as nature itself. SO my friend trying to be to GOOD can be a bad thing.

Nope.

 

[cybrsage]

How much you want to bet?

First some ground rules for the contest.

1. Both parties must be present and visible to the spectators.
2. No action at a distance shit.
3. Neutral judge will decide if anything actually happened.

Sure thing. You set the rules. The date chosen for the contest is 2552. If you do not show you forfeit automatically. If you die before then, you lose as well. Let the contest begin!