Germany: Israel must refrain from new settlements

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Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
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I doubt that is Lemon's solution to the current issue, though.

From what I understand, you support Israel bombing the crap of the area where the Palestinians leaders allow rockets to be fired into Israel from, while Israel continues to build new housing projects. Am I correct?

No, I support israel giving back the land, stop building more apartments for the jews, stop being assholes and find a real peaceful solution to get along. Instead of massive bombing retaliations find out exactly who is doing this, not the group but who. If they are so fucking smart why cant they find out EXACTLY who. Instead they just blow it all up. I have no love for the israelis. They are as bad if not WORSE than the people they claim hate them. I have been to israel and was treated like I had the fucking plaque because they assumed I was christian or catholic and I most certainly am not. I find the 2 main religions only for retards. Most of the normal police in israel hate the hasidic jews (cant blame em there) and are about to implode on their inbreeded asses. Israel is the slow ugly cousin that no one wants to have near them but no one has the balls to kick them in the ass a say get a job and support yourself.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I doubt that is Lemon's solution to the current issue, though.

From what I understand, you support Israel bombing the crap of the area where the Palestinians leaders allow rockets to be fired into Israel from, while Israel continues to build new housing projects. Am I correct?
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In a word NO cybrsage, its exactly what I don't support.

As there is another implicit assumption you make, in saying " Israel bombing the crap of the area where the Palestinians leaders allow rockets to be fired into Israel from."

When we already know, Stateless Al-Quida type terrorists will sneak into Egypt, Gaza, and Lebanon and launch rocket attacks on Israel. Its all well and fine to assert, Palestinian leaders who try to refrain from such attacks they don't want should police their own territories, but when we see Israel can't control their price tag terrorists either, your cybrsage type bullshit assumption argument proves to be a hollow empty shell.

And need I remind you cybrsage, the last time Al-Quida type stateless terrprists borrowed Egyptian and Gaza soil to attack Israel, and Israeli rose in self rightist retaliation, they oops, killed 3 totally innocent Egyptian policemen trying to arrest the Al-Quida rascals.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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In a word NO cybrsage, its exactly what I don't support.

Then what is your solution.


As there is another implicit assumption you make, in saying " Israel bombing the crap of the area where the Palestinians leaders allow rockets to be fired into Israel from."

When we already know, Stateless Al-Quida type terrorists will sneak into Egypt, Gaza, and Lebanon and launch rocket attacks on Israel. Its all well and fine to assert, Palestinian leaders who try to refrain from such attacks they don't want should police their own territories, but when we see Israel can't control their price tag terrorists either, your cybrsage type bullshit assumption argument proves to be a hollow empty shell.

If the occasional rocket was coming from the West Bank, I would say that was people slipping in and the government there could not stop it. However, since the government of Gaza is doing absolutely NOTHING to stop the rockets AND so many are being fired, we know they are complicit in the firing.

Think about it, HAMAS is a bloodthirsty terrorist group. That is not a slam on them, any successful middle east terrorist group must be bloodthirsty. They are known for dragging out and shooting anyone they even suspect works for the Israelis. They can easily stop most of the rockets by using the same measures. In reality, the do not even attempt to find out who is firing them.

Add to it that their Charter says Israel must be destroyed and you can easily see that HAMAS is complicit in the rocket attacks.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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No, I support israel giving back the land, stop building more apartments for the jews, stop being assholes and find a real peaceful solution to get along. Instead of massive bombing retaliations find out exactly who is doing this, not the group but who.

Israel DID give them land, entire cities in fact, and rockets started being fired at them from that newly aquired land. They also DID stop building and rockets kept being fired during that time.

What you want failed, but you want them to keep doing it? Are you dense?

As for finding out the exact individuals who fired the rockets, how do you propose they do that?
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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However, since the government of Gaza is doing absolutely NOTHING to stop the rockets AND so many are being fired, we know they are complicit in the firing.

The Israeli gov says it cannot contol the settlers.
There is talk of labeling them terrorists.

If Israel, with all its money and tech cannot control its citizens, how do you imagine a gov like Hamas could?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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The Israeli gov says it cannot contol the settlers.
There is talk of labeling them terrorists.

If Israel, with all its money and tech cannot control its citizens, how do you imagine a gov like Hamas could?

Control vs encouragement. Hamas rules Gaza with an iron fist. Similar to the Eastern Europe, when Soviets supervised.

Any supplies coming into Gaza are taxed by Hamas. They know who has weapons and what types.. it is easy to move around a rifle. Not so a rocket..
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
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Any supplies coming into Gaza are taxed by Hamas.

Um, pretty sure you know everything that goes into Gaza has to go through Israeli hands first right?
Unless you talking about smuggling tunnels etc. Are you thinking Hamas has booths with tax forms set up in them?
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
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I would wish the US would stop backing Isreal because of shite written in a fairytale book...
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
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I wish the US would quit making it into a religious thing.
It's really not

Well sadly it has becaome groups fithing each other over a dessert, because some of them wish the world would end.

If the US stopped backing Israel...they be forced to negotiate...and peace would be an option.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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Well sadly it has becaome groups fithing each other over a dessert, because some of them wish the world would end.

If the US stopped backing Israel...they be forced to negotiate...and peace would be an option.

I really don't see what Israel has to negotiate about? They've tried getting the Pals to talk and the Pals turn it down every time. Time for talking is over, if the Pals want their own country they should just settle for the current lines, stop doing shit to Israel and work to improve themselves.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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I really don't see what Israel has to negotiate about? They've tried getting the Pals to talk and the Pals turn it down every time. Time for talking is over, if the Pals want their own country they should just settle for the current lines, stop doing shit to Israel and work to improve themselves.

Most people in Israel would disagree with you.
All you know is what you keep getting told over and over.
Especially if all you read is posts from the American Jews on this board.

I think Whiskey is quite right when he says this board (PnN) has become the stormfront for American Jews who would have no problem wiping out every last Muslim on Earth.
That is almost unfathomable to me, Jews for genocide

I always feel so sad when I read Jedi and the others and how even living in America with all its might and yet they are still so scared.
I wish I could pick them up and put them in my pocket and keep them safe forever.

If you really wanted to get some real perspective and understanding you have to read the Israeli news for a couple of months.
Or read some ars or reddit Israeli threads
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Most people in Israel would disagree with you.--- you really have no clue do you???
All you know is what you keep getting told over and over.
Especially if all you read is posts from the American Jews on this board.-- you again are showing your ignorance on this matter!!

I think Whiskey is quite right when he says this board (PnN) has become the stormfront for American Jews who would have no problem wiping out every last Muslim on Earth.
That is almost unfathomable to me, Jews for genocide. -- nice try but Whiskey has always been over the edge so to speak. Whiskey honestly believes that those who would oppose Israel can do no wrong!!

I always feel so sad when I read Jedi and the others and how even living in America with all its might and yet they are still so scared. -- don`t feel sorry for anybody! As has been stated many times -- If you take away all the weapons from those who oppose Israel in 10 years they would still be thriving and masters of their own country!
If you were to take away all weapons from Israel in 10 years there would be no Israel and possibly no Jews on the planet...go figure!


I wish I could pick them up and put them in my pocket and keep them safe forever.

If you really wanted to get some real perspective and understanding you have to read the Israeli news for a couple of months.
Or read some ars or reddit Israeli threads -- Don`t liasten to those of us who live in Israel 6 months out of the year. Or have loved ones serving in the IDF....what do we know..lol

As it is the Palestinians are their own worse enemy!

Suffice to say as has been said previously by bfdd -- I really don't see what Israel has to negotiate about? They've tried getting the Pals to talk and the Pals turn it down every time. Time for talking is over, if the Pals want their own country they should just settle for the current lines, stop doing shit to Israel and work to improve themselves.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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We do have to somewhat wonder how long Israel can survive as a country. When Israel in a neighborhood totally surrounded by Arab States that are mostly Muslim. Basically some 6 million Jews with a slightly shrinking population surrounded by 278 million Muslims that are rapidly increasing in population. Worse yet, in terms of natural resources, Many Arab States have massive oil wealth and Israel has only very recently discovered some off shore natural gas deposits that won't come on line for another five years or so. And even worse, much of what Israel tries to claim lies off shore countries other than Israel.

But from 1948 to basically the present, Israel has based their survival on military superiority. Maybe arguably necessary in 1948 when all surrounding Arab States attacked Israel crying Nimby as the Europeans foisted off their Jewish refugee crisis
off on the Arabs. As Israel got somewhat renewed support from the USA and Europeans
when the last vestiges of colonialism was a stronger force than the almost vanished force it is today. Which brought Israel the military support from the EU and the USA in those giddy days when Henry Kissinger declared oil is too important to be left to the Arabs. And Israel was thought of as a stabilizing force in the mid-east by the Europeans and the USA.

The problem is that Israel has become the greatest danger to mid-east stability today. And the change has come about for a variety of reasons. (1) The first major change came when the Europeans and the USA saw their puppet in Iran getting the old heave ho. As Iran, Saudi Arabia and Iraq could together supply meet the world's oil needs at the time. As all quick fixes to get Iran back under European and and US control have only resulted in making Iraq totally unstable. (2) The second major event was the end of the cold war, as the Russian economy first tanked and now is getting far more prosperous thanks to Russian oil discoveries that now make Russia an oil exporter. (3) The third major change has been the rapidly growing economies of China and India, and the rest of the world meaning their oil imports have skyrocketed. Meaning the US and the Europeans who were basically the sole importers of oil and could break OPEC cartels, have lost that ability. And if the Now EU and the US engage in a foreign policy hostile to the Arabs, Nations like Saudi Arabia can cut the EU and the US without a drop and sell to the Indians and the Chinese instead. (4) Perhaps the worst change for the Israelis, in only the past two years, has been losing the hard won support of Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey, not only losing all shreds of mid-east support in the region, but losing Israel the partner to enforce the other half of embargo's on the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. As the economy of Gaza has already greatly improved mainly due to the free flow of consumer goods and building materials like cement. But it also means that if Israel tries the rape of Gaza again, they will be greeted by more than rocks and bottles.

In short the former Israeli strategy of saying what ever is good for an Arab state is BAD for Israel cannot in future function.

And Current Israeli leadership is la la land, trying to prevent that idea that Israel can trade its engineering talents to help Arab States and itself build a new and better mid-east for itself and its neighbors. Inter regional pipelines for water and natural gas suddenly become possible, new highways and trade routes, but its going to come at the price of a just and lasting Palestinian State among other Israeli policy shifts.

IMHO, the only win win win method I can see for long term Israeli survival.

Otherwise, only terrorists will win, dooming Israel, greatly retarding surrounding Arab States, and perhaps causing a total depression for every modern Industrialized economy if and when Israel does something really stupid.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
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Jedis post got me to wondering.
Right now there are American generals saying Israeli spying is one of America's greatest threats.
We have Jedi here who is one of the most die hard Israel supporters around and no doubt is Israeli first.

Jedi claims also to have served for 6 years for US mil intelligence.
Does that make any Americans a little worried?
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
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Jedis post got me to wondering.
Right now there are American generals saying Israeli spying is one of America's greatest threats.
We have Jedi here who is one of the most die hard Israel supporters around and no doubt is Israeli first.

Jedi claims also to have served for 6 years for US mil intelligence.
Does that make any Americans a little worried?

OMG! Jedi is a joo sent to spy on ATP&N for its vast abundance of intelligence! :eek:

You just outed him, Jedi busted!
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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OMG! Jedi is a joo sent to spy on ATP&N for its vast abundance of intelligence! :eek:

You just outed him, Jedi busted!

You've been having a little reading comprehension problem today.
Are you all rum egg nogged up?

Anyways.. ok, so you have no problem with Israelis serving in the US mil intelligence.

Is this a normal thing then? Is there lots of Israelis serving in the US mil intelligence.

I can't figure what the Generals would be worried about then, I mean LOL
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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OMG! Jedi is a joo sent to spy on ATP&N for its vast abundance of intelligence! :eek:

You just outed him, Jedi busted!
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Don't be sarcastic, Davemat787, JEDIY and the other various fan clubbers are entitled to their opinions, its up to this forum to judge the arguments JEDIY and those on this forum who disagree with JEDIY.

But the real judge, jury, and executioner of the mid-east questions will be all the nations of the world. To pretend that one side is the angel and the other side is the sole villain does nothing to solve a complex problem or offer any hope that one side or the other will forever prevail.

When the only hope is to find ways so all sides can find ways to do better and find long term survival and prosperity,

The only alternative is a future bloodbath Israel cannot ultimately win, even if Israel can kill far more Arabs than Arabs can kill Israelis. But Alas poor Yorick, Israel can't win wars of attrition. Its just the Karama of all postage stamp sized countries.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
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nice try but Whiskey has always been over the edge so to speak. Whiskey honestly believes that those who would oppose Israel can do no wrong!!.[/B]

Oh and that's another lie.
Whiskey is a great poster and always backs up what he says
That's why Eaglekeeper just ignores him now, best to just ignore, let it die, continue to spread the propaganda in your next Israel thread.

&#1513;&#1464;&#1473;&#1500;&#1493;&#1465;&#1501;
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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Most people in Israel would disagree with you.
All you know is what you keep getting told over and over.
Especially if all you read is posts from the American Jews on this board.

I think Whiskey is quite right when he says this board (PnN) has become the stormfront for American Jews who would have no problem wiping out every last Muslim on Earth.
That is almost unfathomable to me, Jews for genocide

I always feel so sad when I read Jedi and the others and how even living in America with all its might and yet they are still so scared.
I wish I could pick them up and put them in my pocket and keep them safe forever.

If you really wanted to get some real perspective and understanding you have to read the Israeli news for a couple of months.
Or read some ars or reddit Israeli threads

I'm not an American Jew and I really don't care either way. I just look at it like this, both peoples were given a fucked up situation. The Israelis are no saints, but the Palestinians refuse to work ANYTHING OUT WITH THEM SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS. There is no coming to the table for talks, that has already been tried. They stalled and stalled and didn't show then when the Israeli's said "ok fuck you we gave you enough time" they start crying that they're being treated unfairly and the Israeli's don't want to talk. WTF? The time for talking was then, it was like a goddamn year long window and the Palestinians refused to acknowledge it. That's on them and I'm sorry their leadership is so shitty that the people will suffer, but how else are they supposed to learn that their leadership is shitty?

I do not support the settlers moving into Palestinian lands, but there are lands that are now Israeli that the Pal's refuse to acknowledge as well. It's a shitty situation and from the looks of it only one side even cared to try and work anything out, the other just wants to lob rockets and yell down with the Jews.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
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Don't be sarcastic, Davmat787, JEDIY and the other various fan clubbers are entitled to their opinions, its up to this forum to judge the arguments JEDIY and those on this forum who disagree with JEDIY.

I was not being sarcastic, rather I was being deliberately obtuse. :colbert:

I blame it on the holidays, I don't handle all of the disingenuous bullshit and over the top consumerism very well, sorry. It apparently is effecting my reading comprehension this year too. :'(
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Um, pretty sure you know everything that goes into Gaza has to go through Israeli hands first right?
Unless you talking about smuggling tunnels etc. Are you thinking Hamas has booths with tax forms set up in them?
Isreal is not letting weapons in.

Therefore, those weapons are coming in via tunnels/smuuggling.
Hamas has toll booths setup in those tunnels.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Lets call the bfdd contention for the total bullshit it is as he saysThe Israelis are no saints, but the Palestinians refuse to work ANYTHING OUT WITH THEM SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS. "

Which is simply totally untrue, as Israel demands only impossibly unfair terms from Palestinians, as Israeli refuses to make any concessions even remotely resembling fair.

But Olmert got close in 2008 as even the PLO would have inked a deal. But when Olmert fell in a corruption scandal, the Netanyuhu government demanded even more.

As Obama decided a return to that Olmert deal would work if Israel agreed a settlement freeze, and Netanyuhu showed his true colors, as Israeli had a track record of talking and talking, while settling and settling on Palestinian lands Israel could never own.

It may have worked for Netanyuhu as he forced the US to back down from a settlement freeze, BUT IT STILL BACKFIRED BIG TIME AGAINST ISRAEL IN THE REST OF THE WORLD. As the larger world now realizes Israel has no intention of honoring the 1992 Oslo agreements.

As we can see the Israeli consequences of the past two years. As Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey have lost all faith in Israel, 2/3 of all UN members are ready to authorize a Palestinian state, Sarcosy of France openly calls Netanyuhu a liar, and now Germany, France, Portable, and other EU nations label continual Israeli settlement illegal. As international support flows away from Israel and toward the Palestinians in a gathering flood as Palestinians refuse to negotiate with Israelis without a settlement freeze.

Face the facts, bfdd, Bozo Netanyuhu is losing all world support with his total bullshit. Not even the USA can save Netanyuhu's butt now.