Germany: Israel must refrain from new settlements

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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Germany has kind of lost its ability to tell Israelis to do anything for, like, ever.
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Earth to Doppel, it was NOT JUST Germany saying Israel was wrong.

"In the statement by EU UNSC members released on Tuesday, the ambassadors from Britain, France, Germany and Portugal issued a joint statement branding the Israeli settlements in Palestinian occupied territories and East Jerusalem as illegal under international law."
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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The EK excuse for Israeli attacks on innocent civilians is that "2) militants hiding among the civilians and using them as shields."

That may be a fine piece of propaganda, but Israel simple does not bother to make any distinctions between the guilty and the innocent. Which explains why so many very young children end up being slaughtered in what amounts to the international war crime referred to as collective punishment. As war crimes charges are still hanging over Israel for its rape of Gaza.

Or we can go back to the Israeli rape of Lebanon, where the rockets only had a range of 60 miles, yet way beyond the rockets range Israel bombed even Christian Lebanese children. And Israel planes strafed fleeing civilians for no good reason.

In short EK, you make a total BS statement, 99% of that Israeli aggression happens to civilians with no terrorist anywhere in the vicinity.
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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The EK excuse for Israeli attacks on innocent civilians is that "2) militants hiding among the civilians and using them as shields."

That may be a fine piece of propaganda, but Israel simple does not bother to make any distinctions between the guilty and the innocent. Which explains why so many very young children end up being slaughtered in what amounts to the international war crime referred to as collective punishment. As war crimes charges are still hanging over Israel for its rape of Gaza.

Or we can go back to the Israeli rape of Lebanon, where the rockets only had a range of 60 miles, yet way beyond the rockets range Israel bombed even Christian Lebanese children. And Israel planes strafed fleeing civilians for no good reason.

In short EK, you make a total BS statement, 99&#37; of that Israeli aggression happens to civilians with no terrorist anywhere in the vicinity.


Why should Israel make a distinction. It has been shown that Palestinian children are just as deadly to the IDF and civilians as adults. You hide among civilians that have weapons; both become targets.
If the IDF hesitates in an attack because of a child do you really think that a militant will thank him and go on their merry way?

Israel bombed Hezbollah locations within Lebanon. Are you stating that there was only Hezbollah presence inside the 60 miles limit?:hmm:
If so, then how can you reconcile any Hezbollah interaction with Israel beyond that 60. Did Israel pickup hitchhikers and deposit them.:p

Just like there was no PLO presence in Beruit when Israel chased Arafat out of the area.:whiste:

Given your statements and track record about the ME politics - it is understandable that you have no knowledge of what happens other than the Palestinian PR.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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unifiljj6.jpg


Any wonder why UN workers were killed when Israel shelled the HezbAllah base?
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
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Germany has kind of lost its ability to tell Israelis to do anything for, like, ever.
Its gotta start somewhere. I wish US politicians had the balls to tell israel to GFTs and stop supporting them.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Maybe you have a small point cybrsage, but when Netanyuhu policy murders hundreds of innocent Palestinians for every Israeli death, and other wise diminishes the quality of life of three million Palestinians, we have to ask who is the greater villain.---no we don`t!! A casualty of war is a casualty of war!! The Palestinians have always neen their own worse enemy!!

And then we have to ask the other question, when all those Israeli settlers who were encouraged to build their houses on land Israel did not own. -- who owned it?? -- this ought to be good....


What will Bozo Netanhuhu be able to tell those settlers when the larger world demands they get out because Bozo Netanyuhu greed finally gagged even the apathetic of all UN members. -- First of all it will not happen./...so moot point!

As it is 2/3 of UN members States are ready to vote for a Palestinian State, ---oh really?? In your dreams maybe.....and Bozo Netanyuhu is busily at work alienating the other 1/3. Its easy to be bullish on Israeli greed heading to a very bad end. Does it really matter if Assad or Netanyuhu goes into the scrap bin of history first or second?

What matters is finding ways to allow Syrians and Israelis that are rational to survive the stupidity of their leaders.--- actually no it does not matter!!

:)
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,382
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Palestine got accepted in the unesco.
That means there is a certain amount of countries ready to recognize Palestine.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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Palestine got accepted in the unesco.
That means there is a certain amount of countries ready to recognize Palestine.

The critical people are not.

They listed a series of steps that the Palestinians were supposed to take in order to get the final formal recognition.
The Palestinians have refused to do so at this point; thinking that they can slip in the back door.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Given the fact that Israel has been getting away with many abuses since 1948, and a overly long military occupation on land Israel cannot ever claim ever since 1967, JEDIY has a point in claiming that will never change.

But still JEDIY might look at the current Israeli cred and note the Israeli position has significantly eroded in the past decade, and now is far worse than it was even one or two years ago.

And now, Israel has the damn chutzpah to tell four EU countries and Members of the UN security council, to mind their own business.

As earth to Bozo Netanyuhu, those 4 very countries are charged with the responsibility of being a large part of being judge, jury, and executioner regarding Israeli behavior and ratifying a Palestinian State.

As a puny Israeli state of only six million defies the will of a world with 6 billion people.

And if JEDIY wants to examine the events of a larger world history, the rise of any given country is far slower than its rapid end.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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A full 1/4 of Israeli citizens are Arabs with the same rights as all the other Israeli citizens. Horrible people, the Israelis, providing equal rights AND full democracy to Arabs since 1948.

Oh, and the population is over 7 million as of 2010.

Jewish 76.4&#37; (of which Israel-born 67.1%, Europe/America-born 22.6%, Africa-born 5.9%, Asia-born 4.2%), non-Jewish 23.6% (mostly Arab) (2004)

7,473,052 (July 2010 est.)
country comparison to the world: 97
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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A full 1/4 of Israeli citizens are Arabs with the same rights as all the other Israeli citizens. Horrible people, the Israelis, providing equal rights AND full democracy to Arabs since 1948.

Oh, and the population is over 7 million as of 2010.


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html
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You are being deceptive again cybrsage, as in point of fact Israel is a nation of about 10.5 million people. Only a little over 50% are Jews, 15% or so are Arabs with less than full citizenship rights, and the remaining 35% are Palestinians with no human rights at all.

But go back pre 1948, and its a historical fact, that those 35% of totally disenfranchised Palestinians owned 67% of pre 1948 land.

And to add insult to injury, if there is ever a Palestinian State, Israeli plans are already in place to deport those Arabs with second class rights to that future Palestinian State.

If we want to talk about American values of 150 years ago, America stepped up to the plate to end slavery, even if those with similar third class rights only constituted 14% of the American population in 1860.

Its all well and fine to demonize Muslims, but it pales in comparison with Israel values.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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You are being deceptive again cybrsage, as in point of fact Israel is a nation of about 10.5 million people...

I had to stop you there. I quoted the CIA Factbook. If you have a problem with their facts, I recommend you contact the CIA about it. Crying about it to me is pointless; I will always trust the CIA's census info over the census info of some random Internet forum poster.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,981
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Palestine got accepted in the unesco.
That means there is a certain amount of countries ready to recognize Palestine.
That is a stoopid statement and not at all relevant!!! Go back and read up on what it takes to become a member of the UN!!
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Surely JEDIY, you can't possibly believe Israel will forever get away with settling on disputed land. I predict some radical policy shifts if Bozo Netanyuhu keeps climbing further out on his tree limb.

The other thing is that when the next lucky nation takes on getting a Israeli Palestinian agreement, that nation will not be the USA. If that don't work there is binding third party arbitration. Or the forced Israeli assimilation of Palestinians will full voting rights.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
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Surely JEDIY, you can't possibly believe Israel will forever get away with settling on disputed land. I predict some radical policy shifts if Bozo Netanyuhu keeps climbing further out on his tree limb.

The other thing is that when the next lucky nation takes on getting a Israeli Palestinian agreement, that nation will not be the USA. If that don't work there is binding third party arbitration. Or the forced Israeli assimilation of Palestinians will full voting rights.

Binding third party arbitration only works if both sides agree to it. That is not going to happen.

Forced Israeli assimilation of Palestinians will full voting rights - who is going to do this?

Israel will keep on settling on the land until the Palestinians decide to make peace with Israel.

Simple concept that the puppet masters will not allow.:\
 

Shyatic

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2004
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It is only in the US that Israel gets as much support as it does, and that's their biggest claim to power and position in the world.

The rest of the world however, looks at Israel as an occupying power, one who dispenses "justice" in an unreasonable way, and basically sets it up to continue the conflict as long as possible. When Palestinians have 35&#37; unemployment, have no hope for jobs, growth, etc because Israel blocks everything in and out of the country, then you will find a desperate people regardless of the religion. And the rest of the world knows this, only the US can defend it because Israel is our proxy in the region for oil wealth. It's pretty simple.

Again as I've said before, Israel will be a non-issue as soon as green technology emerges in a big way. That's why you will find the AIPAC lobby going against the idea of solar power and things like that, because their only ability to cling to power is the fact that they represent power in a region of unstable lunatics who happen to be sitting on black gold.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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It is only in the US that Israel gets as much support as it does, and that's their biggest claim to power and position in the world.

The rest of the world however, looks at Israel as an occupying power, one who dispenses "justice" in an unreasonable way, and basically sets it up to continue the conflict as long as possible. When Palestinians have 35% unemployment, have no hope for jobs, growth, etc because Israel blocks everything in and out of the country, then you will find a desperate people regardless of the religion. And the rest of the world knows this, only the US can defend it because Israel is our proxy in the region for oil wealth. It's pretty simple.

When the Palestinians stop firing rockets into Israel and stop slipping into Israel and firing anti-tank missiles at buses filled with school kids, then Israel will remove the blockade.

Again as I've said before, Israel will be a non-issue as soon as green technology emerges in a big way. That's why you will find the AIPAC lobby going against the idea of solar power and things like that, because their only ability to cling to power is the fact that they represent power in a region of unstable lunatics who happen to be sitting on black gold.

o_O

Solar power in Israel and the Israeli solar energy industry has a history that dates to the founding of the country. In the 1950s, Levi Yissar developed a solar water heater to help assuage an energy shortage in the new country.[1] By 1967 around one in twenty households heated its water with the sun and 50,000 solar heaters had been sold.[1] With the 1970s oil crisis, Harry Zvi Tabor, the father of Israel's solar industry, developed the prototype of the solar water heater now used in over 90% of Israeli homes.[2] Israeli engineers are at the cutting edge of solar energy technology[3] and its solar companies work on projects around the world.[4]
Israel has embraced solar energy.[3][4] There is no oil on Israeli land and the country's tenuous relations with its oil-rich neighbors has made the search for a stable source of energy a national priority.[5][6] Israeli innovation and research has advanced solar technology to a degree that it is almost cost-competitive with fossil fuels.[2] Its abundant sun made the country a natural location for the promising technology. The high annual incident solar irradiance in the Negev Desert has spurred an internationally renowned solar research and development industry, with Harry Tabor and David Faiman of the National Solar Energy Center two of its more prominent members.[5] At the end of 2008 a feed-in tariff scheme was approved, which immediately put in motion the building of many residential and commercial solar energy power station projects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Israel
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
It is only in the US that Israel gets as much support as it does, and that's their biggest claim to power and position in the world.

The rest of the world however, looks at Israel as an occupying power, one who dispenses "justice" in an unreasonable way, and basically sets it up to continue the conflict as long as possible. When Palestinians have 35% unemployment, have no hope for jobs, growth, etc because Israel blocks everything in and out of the country, then you will find a desperate people regardless of the religion. And the rest of the world knows this, only the US can defend it because Israel is our proxy in the region for oil wealth. It's pretty simple.

Again as I've said before, Israel will be a non-issue as soon as green technology emerges in a big way. That's why you will find the AIPAC lobby going against the idea of solar power and things like that, because their only ability to cling to power is the fact that they represent power in a region of unstable lunatics who happen to be sitting on black gold.

The Palestinians have brought this on themselves and refuse to mend their ways. They started with a land grab in '46 and have continued to try and trouble from any host country that is crazy enough to tolerate them.

Ask why they are no longer welcome in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Tunisia.


Regurgitate the PR.
Soon you will be like LL and others.
 

Oyeve

Lifer
Oct 18, 1999
21,917
828
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I blame the Brits for dumping the Jews back in israel. I blame the jews for leaving israel in the first place. I blame moses for bringing them there (only a longshot theory as there is no proof moses ever lived as there is no proof the jews were slaves in egypt PERIOD). I blame moses for getting lost in the desert for 40 years as he would never ask for directions.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Fuck em. Might makes right or rather is what it is. If might of the world or Germany wants them to stop they will until then STFU.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Israel has a million excuses and none of them are valid. But the biggest new line of total bogus snake oil on this thread is that if the Palestinians quit their protests, that then and only then will Israel give them their land back.

That has never worked in world history and won't work today. Look at American civil rights for the blacks after the civil war. For 15 years, right after the civil war, blacks had at least theoretical full rights. Then in a compromise between democrats and republicans, to solve a disputed presidential election, the American South obtained a free hand to pass Jim Crow civil rights law that became the law of the land in the American South. But Black Protesters, both violent and non violent kept the issue simmering, obtaining victories in the 1954 Brown v board of education, and Truman's desegregation of the US military. And it snowballed from there, and exploded in 1960.
Yet JEDIY would have us believe, that Jim Crow died because the South volutarily was rewarding the blacks and taking them off probation.

Or we could look at the Vietnamese people who had a 3000 year history of ALWAYS resisting foreign domination. As they really got punished in the last 200 years for their behavior. First the French came and colonized them, then the Japs came and kicked out the French, then the French came back, and it least North Vietnam was independent. Then when the French got beat violently at Dien Bien Foo, it finally looked like Vietnam would finally achieve reunification, after a 200 plus year struggle. But no Uncle Sucker got in, it took the Vietnamese another almost 2 decades of violent and constant struggle to finally achieve independence. And JediY will have us believe it was a reward for Vietnamese complacency.

Or we could look at India, Algeria, South Africa, the Former British colonies that became the USA, and almost everywhere else in the world, and see that winning independence and self determination requires struggle against the injustice of a foreign domination. And that foreign power will use military force to keep its illegal gains. Which is exactly what is now happening in the post 1967 expansion of Israel past its legal boundaries.

Ore we can look what happened at Annapolis in 2008, As Israel refused to deal with Hamas because it violently resisted Israel. But when it came to Fatah in the West Bank, who had renounced violence against Israel, Israel would not reward Fatah with any concession either. So there goes the Israeli argument, when put to the reality test.

Now its 2011, Israel still refuses to make a single concession to Fatah and the PLO, and Israeli instead punishes a complacent West Bank with continuing Israeli settlement.

But while Bozo Netanyuhu thinks he a a genius for false propaganda, and has everyone fooled, he fails to note that the demand for a Palestinian state has reached critical mass, and world sympathy is rapidly moving to the Palestinian people.

Those two things, JEDIY almost always signals in eminent demise of a status qoa. Reaching critical mass and gaining world sympathy. Exactly How events play out in that death spiral swan song are mere variables, only the final outcomes of Israel returned to its 1967 borders is certain.

IMHO, smart people all over the world are hoping people of good will on all sides are looking beyond trying to find ways to have a peaceful mid-east for Israelis. Muslems, and Christians.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Israel has a million excuses and none of them are valid. But the biggest new line of total bogus snake oil on this thread is that if the Palestinians quit their protests, that then and only then will Israel give them their land back.

What is your alternative?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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Let nature take its course. The israelis will do themselves in eventually.

I doubt that is Lemon's solution to the current issue, though.

From what I understand, you support Israel bombing the crap of the area where the Palestinians leaders allow rockets to be fired into Israel from, while Israel continues to build new housing projects. Am I correct?