Germany: Israel must refrain from new settlements

[JEDIYoda]

OMG -- tell me it can`t be....as if Israel will ever listen to anything Germany has to say on the Middle East!!

hahahahaaaa@Germany!!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/germany-israel-must-refrain-settlements-120542005.html

BERLIN (AP) — A spokesman for Chancellor Angela Merkel says Germany is urging Israel to refrain from constructing new settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Georg Streiter said Monday Israel's recent announcement that it would seek contractors to build some 1,000 apartments in both areas conveys "a devastating message with regard to the current efforts to resume peace negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians." -- what efforts? The Palestinians don`t want Peace...it`s all a sham!!!

He says Germany "urgently calls on the Israeli government to refrain from inviting bids for the apartments."

Israeli-Palestinian peace talks have been frozen for three years, in part because of continued Israeli settlement construction in the territories captured by Israel in 1967 and still claimed by the Palestinians.---awwwww.....doesn`t pay to attack a nation and then lose...lolol

 

[Dari]

You know Israel has a problem when even the Germans are criticizing her. But, because of the Holocaust, I guess Israel feels morally superior to the Germans, even when they go begging them for more money.

 

[BoomerD]

OMG -- tell me it can`t be....as if Israel will ever listen to anything ANYONE has to say ABOUT ANYTHING!!

Fixed that for you

hahahahaaaa@Germany!!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/germany-israel-must-refrain-settlements-120542005.html

BERLIN (AP) — A spokesman for Chancellor Angela Merkel says Germany is urging Israel to refrain from constructing new settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Georg Streiter said Monday Israel's recent announcement that it would seek contractors to build some 1,000 apartments in both areas conveys "a devastating message with regard to the current efforts to resume peace negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians." -- what efforts? The Palestinians don`t want Peace...it`s all a sham!!!

He says Germany "urgently calls on the Israeli government to refrain from inviting bids for the apartments."

Israeli-Palestinian peace talks have been frozen for three years, in part because of continued Israeli settlement construction in the territories captured by Israel in 1967 and still claimed by the Palestinians.---awwwww.....doesn`t pay to attack a nation and then lose...lolol

I dunno about that last bit. It worked out pretty well for Germany and Japan following WWII.

 

[Oyeve]

Nukem from orbit.........yall know the rest.

 

[EagleKeeper]

I dunno about that last bit. It worked out pretty well for Germany and Japan following WWII.

Germany and Japan both lost land that they controlled before the conflict.

Only Palestinians feel that they should be rewarded for losing:hmm:

 

[cybrsage]

Until every nation that ever gained land from war stop building houses, Israel does not need to stop building houses. Just a quick list off the top of my head would be the US, Germany, France, Poland, Spain, UK, Russia, China, Japan, Australia, and all of central and south America.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Until every nation that ever gained land from war stop building houses, Israel does not need to stop building houses. Just a quick list off the top of my head would be the US, Germany, France, Poland, Spain, UK, Russia, China, Japan, Australia, and all of central and south America.

Loser supporters feel that only after the UN (1945) should such apply.

Still ignoring other countries that do it.

So it is Israel that must comply and no one else needs to be mentioned.

 

[brandonb]

Except the fact that Israel is creating conflict by creating settlements. Germany has a point. It's called cause and effect. Israel creating settlements = Palestinian rocket attacks. Palestinian rocket attacks = Israel creating settlements.

Both parties just need to stop the circle, but it seems Israel is not willing to do so. They seem to have unlimited support for creating new settlements, and think they can just crush the Palestinians when they respond.

Not sure if that is working out or not. Germany is starting to think otherwise. And they are right.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The rocket attacks are a way to keep the tensions high and prevent a solution from coming out.

Hamas does not want a solution; the conflict is what justifies them being in power.

Look at their statements to the media and also their charter.

Israel will create/expand settlements as long as they need to address her internal pressures and there is no solution as to who will control the West Bank and ensure a secure border for Israel.

 

[Dari]

The rocket attacks are a way to keep the tensions high and prevent a solution from coming out.

Hamas does not want a solution; the conflict is what justifies them being in power.

Look at their statements to the media and also their charter.

Israel will create/expand settlements as long as they need to address her internal pressures and there is no solution as to who will control the West Bank and ensure a secure border for Israel.

Hamas is not the only party that wants to keep the hostilities going. They are joined by the fellow Jewish extremists and many of those in the security industry. The fact that you are focused on only one party does not surprise me considering your huge bias.

The settlements are being created and expanded primarily at the behest of religious Jewish fanatics, egged on by the security apparatus. This is no coincidence. The problem for Israel is that the religious fanatics are fucking and having kids like rabbits and so are the Arabs. Coincidence? Nope, both groups are poor and dependent on either the state or their families for support. This means that the conflict will continue until either Israel loses or comes to an agreement with the Palestinians. Israel can win a trillion times but so long as it has a demographic imbalance it will always operate under siege mode in this conflict. It can never relax until it stops the fanatics from its own camps first. But I can't see that happening since it is primarily religion that gives them the most legitimacy to be where they are.

 

[peonyu]

Hamas is not the only party that wants to keep the hostilities going. They are joined by the fellow Jewish extremists and many of those in the security industry. The fact that you are focused on only one party does not surprise me considering your huge bias.

The settlements are being created and expanded primarily at the behest of religious Jewish fanatics, egged on by the security apparatus. This is no coincidence. The problem for Israel is that the religious fanatics are fucking and having kids like rabbits and so are the Arabs. Coincidence? Nope, both groups are poor and dependent on either the state or their families for support. This means that the conflict will continue until either Israel loses or comes to an agreement with the Palestinians. Israel can win a trillion times but so long as it has a demographic imbalance it will always operate under siege mode in this conflict. It can never relax until it stops the fanatics from its own camps first. But I can't see that happening since it is primarily religion that gives them the most legitimacy to be where they are.

There is a segment of Jews who are breeding like crazy but it pales in comparison to the Palestinians. Palestine has the highest birth rate on earth, its not uncommon for a woman to be mother to 20 kids over there...And people wonder why the Palestinians are angry and usually unemployed ? Take a look at family sizes. Id like to know what economy on earth is seeing their economy increase 10 fold every 15 years, none are even close to that. And the jobs that are there are already taken. The surplus children who are jobless usually are pushed into terrorism since Israel is a nice target to blame.

There are Jews who breed like rabbits to but they are not mainstream, Israel knows that in the long run they are going to be over run by Arabs.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Israel has demonstrated that they can control the settlements and remove them according to agreements.

The Palestinians have not demonstrated that they will not attack Israel and will ensure safe borders.

as long as there are people that are willing to give the Palestinians a pass for their actions; Israel is not going to accommodate the bleeding hearts.

When the Palestinian's take responsibility for their actions, then something will happen.

 

[Dari]

Israel has demonstrated that they can control the settlements and remove them according to agreements.

The Palestinians have not demonstrated that they will not attack Israel and will ensure safe borders.

as long as there are people that are willing to give the Palestinians a pass for their actions; Israel is not going to accommodate the bleeding hearts.

When the Palestinian's take responsibility for their actions, then something will happen.

The problem for Israel is that they have demonstrated that they cannot control the settlers and the army usually backs off when the settlers make enough noise or their political parties come to their rescue. This has been demonstrated countless times. Palestinians are not innocent in this either. They cannot control their own people. There may be people giving the Palestinians a pass but you are showing your bias again by giving the Israeli settlers a pass. They are a serious part of the problem and Israel cannot point fingers at the Palestinians for their failure without recognizing their own.

 

[Lemon law]

Germany and Japan both lost land that they controlled before the conflict.

Only Palestinians feel that they should be rewarded for losing:hmm:

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Earth to EK, prior to the formation of the UN, land by conquest was legal, now under the UN, its a founding bedrock principle of the UN that land by conquest is ILLEGAL.

As for Germany, its now a new modern nation that has formally renounced its Nazi past. And while the issue of Palestinian statehood is still working its slow way through the UN, we can note Merkel's German Government did largely oppose a Palestinian State and held the EU together as a voting block this fall.

But Israel should note, when even its past friends like Germany warn Israel of the grave consequences of Israel's illegal settlement policy on land Israel does not own. Israel can ignore that German warning at its own peril, but if the EU comes out as a block and votes for Palestinian Statehood, Israel will almost certainly have to return to its 1948 borders.

 

[McWatt]

Until every nation that ever gained land from war stop building houses, Israel does not need to stop building houses. Just a quick list off the top of my head would be the US, Germany, France, Poland, Spain, UK, Russia, China, Japan, Australia, and all of central and south America.

Or, alternatively: Until every person that ever killed someone and stole their wallets stops killing people and stealing their wallets, I don't need to stop killing people and stealing their wallets.

 

[Whiskey16]

JEDIYoda, and EagleKeeper, yet again displaying a penchant for being totally out to lunch and in a fantasy world upon this topic.

Germany does know better than your penchants as enablers of criminals will allow.

Germany's statements are correct. This from a state that attempted to enact a now criminalised policy of lebenstraum, of the very ilk that Zionist Israelis continue to now enact:

Lebensraum (help·info) (German for "habitat" or literally "living space") was one of the major political ideas of Adolf Hitler, and an important component of Nazi ideology. It served as the motivation for the expansionist policies of Nazi Germany, aiming to provide extra space for the growth of the German population, for a Greater Germany.
..
The idea of a Germanic people without sufficient space dates back to long before Adolf Hitler brought it to prominence. Through the Middle Ages, German population pressures led to settlement in Eastern Europe, a practice termed Ostsiedlung. The term Lebensraum in this sense was coined by Friedrich Ratzel in 1901, and was used as a slogan in Germany referring to the unification of the country and the acquisition of colonies, based on the English and French models, and the westward expansion of the United States.[1] Ratzel believed that the development of a people was primarily influenced by their geographical situation and that a people that successfully adapted to one location would proceed naturally to another. These thoughts can be seen in his studies of zoology and the study of adaptation.[2] This expansion to fill available space, he claimed, was a natural and necessary feature of any healthy species.
..
The German Empire planned to annex territory in both Lithuania and Poland for direct colonization by German colonists after the forcible removal of the Polish and Lithuanian population. As early as April 1915, the Polish Border Strip plan against Poland, which was first suggested by General Erich Ludendorff in 1914, was approved as a German war aim by the Chancellor Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg. The German historian Andreas Hillgruber argued that the foreign policy of General Ludendorff, with its demand for lebensraum to be seized for Germany in Eastern Europe during World War I, was the prototype for German policy in World War II.

Such analogous condemnation is growing from within Israel, itself:

Suddenly we are short of space here in Israel, which has become full to capacity and needs lebensraum. Every cultured person knows that this is a despicable German concept, banned from use because of the associations it brings up. Still, people are starting to use it, if not outright then with a clear implication: We are short of land, we are short of air, let us breathe in this country.

When we embarked on the Six-Day War did we want to remove a threat or did we want to gain control in order to spread out? That's what happens after 44 years of mire and moral corruption, which distort things and make us forget the original objective and replace it with an entirely different one. We were fortunate when we occupied the West Bank because had we not done so, where would we have come to live? And who knows how high housing prices would have risen? The divine promise is now being revealed in all its ability to prophesy about real estate.

The founding fathers, as opposed to the Diadochi who fought for control after Alexander the Great's death, represented a different approach, for the most part. Between "A little goes a long way," and "Don't bite off more than you can chew," they chose to bite; they even agreed to the 1947 UN partition plan for lack of choice. They believed that all the objectives of rational Ben Gurion-style Zionism could be fulfilled even in "Lesser Israel," which is more complete and more at peace with itself. And it has no need for lebensraum, may God preserve us.

Germany and Japan both lost land that they controlled before the conflict.

Only Palestinians feel that they should be rewarded for losing:hmm:

..
Loser supporters feel that only after the UN (1945) should such apply.

Still ignoring other countries that do it.

So it is Israel that must comply and no one else needs to be mentioned.

Other states that have invaded and annexed territory have been ignored for that past 60 years? What ripe hyperbole you hold to...

The typical lies that have long been refuted, and directly to you upon this forum. In all argumentative bluster, you choose not to heed such grounded and accurate reality.

Those with criminal tendencies choose to ignore and negate morality and law.

Poor, poor, Israel, who to date, for its crimes has only endured the sporadic and harsh words. ...Of course in addition to a portion of reacting and militant insurgents enduring criminal occupation.

Directly because of Germany's actions in World War II were new international laws written and ratified (also by Israel) that deem an annexation of territory through warfare (regardless if ones whines of initially being on the defence) to be a high crime of aggression:

Definition of Aggression, United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3314 (XXIX).
Article 5:
3. No territorial acquisition or special advantage resulting from aggression is or shall be recognized as lawful.
Article 7
Nothing in this Definition, and in particular article 3, could in any way prejudice the right to self-determination, freedom and independence, as derived from the Charter, of peoples forcibly deprived of that right and referred to in the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Cooperation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, particularly peoples under colonial and racist regimes or other forms of alien domination: nor the right of these peoples to struggle to that end and to seek and receive support, in accordance with the principles of the Charter and in conformity with the above-mentioned Declaration.

On the very basis of committing such high crimes, Israel has also received multiple condemnations from successfully passed resolutions from the United Nations Security Council:

United Nations Resolution 242 (November 1967) - The situation in the Middle East:
..
Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,
1. Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:
(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

Such condemnation has long opened a path for international action to be taken upon Israel. That remains the problem -- the lack of state efforts to work beyond words to punish Israel for its continued crimes. With growing displeasure and condemnation of the continuing belligerent actions and tendencies of this current Israeli government , I do see hope that coercive pressure will finally be brought to bear upon the state of Israel


In all honesty, fuck Israel as an internationally aggressive and criminal state. It certainly warrants such state levelled criticism and finally widespread and organised sanctions, upon the lines that South Africa endured.

As Israel continues with Zionist expansion, Israel is damned.

 

[EagleKeeper]

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Earth to EK, prior to the formation of the UN, land by conquest was legal, now under the UN, its a founding bedrock principle of the UN that land by conquest is ILLEGAL.

As for Germany, its now a new modern nation that has formally renounced its Nazi past. And while the issue of Palestinian statehood is still working its slow way through the UN, we can note Merkel's German Government did largely oppose a Palestinian State and held the EU together as a voting block this fall.

But Israel should note, when even its past friends like Germany warn Israel of the grave consequences of Israel's illegal settlement policy on land Israel does not own. Israel can ignore that German warning at its own peril, but if the EU comes out as a block and votes for Palestinian Statehood, Israel will almost certainly have to return to its 1948 borders.

If land by conquest is illegal, explain Russia, China and the US w/ respect to territories after WWII.

Who actually has those lands.
Egypt and Trans Jordan both unloaded them; are they floating around in vaporland?

Still looking for your Palestinian state from September.
And the economic embargoes of Israel.
Along with the blockade runners.

 

[JEDIYoda]

As Israel continues with Zionist expansion, Israel is damned.

ohhh BooHoo.....the UN is a paper tiger with no teeth!!! If you look at the resolutions condemning Israel and then look at the resolutions condemn the palestinians or even Hamas or Hezbollah you can see and understand why the United Nations is a one sides joke!!

 

[Lemon law]

If land by conquest is illegal, explain Russia, China and the US w/ respect to territories after WWII.

Who actually has those lands.
Egypt and Trans Jordan both unloaded them; are they floating around in vaporland?

Still looking for your Palestinian state from September.
And the economic embargoes of Israel.
Along with the blockade runners.

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The territory gains EK speaks of were agreed on prior to the formation of the UN.

As for the a Palestinian State, that is still buried in UN committees. And in point of fact, most nations who gained new admittance to the UN, did not get in on their first try.

But if Israel refuses to adopt a settlement freeze voluntarily, even the USA will find it untenable to side with Israel. As Israeli now behaves much like Hitler, El Duce, and Tojo.
As we can go back into history and ask, would we have had a WW2, if Hitler had stopped his land grabs with Czechoslovakia as he promised. But then Hitler kept up with more land grabs just like your Bozo Netanyuhu. And discovered himself on the reality it was the straw that broke the Camel's back.

 

[Lemon law]

ohhh BooHoo.....the UN is a paper tiger with no teeth!!! If you look at the resolutions condemning Israel and then look at the resolutions condemn the palestinians or even Hamas or Hezbollah you can see and understand why the United Nations is a one sides joke!!

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I noted before and note it again, JEDIY should realize any shred of present Israeli legitimacy is derived from the UN creating it in 1948.

Call the UN a joke at your own peril, and remember the very UN that created Israel in 1948, can yank its legitimacy just as fast. As for the UN from 1948 to present, would have dope slapped Israel far harder if the the USA wouldn't have used its veto in the security council. And the very Hamas and Hezbollah you don't like post dated the Israeli 1967 war.

And given the events of the last decade, and especially the past two years , Hamas violence policy may well in fact make Gaza an Israeli influence free zone. As Gaza will own its air space, its own sea coast, and be free to trade with the larger world. And finally have a nation to build and be too busy doing so to bother pegging rockets at Israel that no longer is able to dominate them.

 

[Shyatic]

Power and corruption all in the name of religion. Works on both sides.

Thankfully I'm atheist, so let them work on destroying each other but unfortunately -- over time, the benefit will not be to Israel, especially as the world gets better sources of power. The day we don't need oil is the day Israel is useless to the US. They are not an ally because "they are the only democracy in the Middle East" -- that is total crap, and only morons believe that. They are a strategic position in an area filled with black riches (oil), and that's what we are friends with them for.

 

[Lemon law]

Power and corruption all in the name of religion. Works on both sides.

Thankfully I'm atheist, so let them work on destroying each other but unfortunately -- over time, the benefit will not be to Israel, especially as the world gets better sources of power. The day we don't need oil is the day Israel is useless to the US. They are not an ally because "they are the only democracy in the Middle East" -- that is total crap, and only morons believe that. They are a strategic position in an area filled with black riches (oil), and that's what we are friends with them for.

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I might point out I think Scribe is partially right here. But Israel may have been viewed as a US asset in the mid-east 45 years ago, but any sniff test of reality shows Israel is more of a US liability today. But Netanyuhu has been recently really able to exploit Obama political weakness and force Obama to support Israel in a total reversal of position.

But we can derive another political lesson from Taiwan and Red China in the mid 1960's. As the USA and the UN pretended Taiwan was the real representative of the Chinese people and not Red China. Then along came Nixon as he threw Taiwan under the bus, and Red China gained its proper UN seat and Taiwan lost its seat. In short Israel would be foolish to always count on US support, as US support of Israel grows ever more costly to the USA politically. After the US POTUS election of 11/ 2012, regardless of the outcome, Israel might be well advised to start reversing its policies.

Or the US public perception of Israel could vanish as fast as any US German bund support prior to WW2.

 

[Shyatic]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I might point out I think Scribe is partially right here. But Israel may have been viewed as a US asset in the mid-east 45 years ago, but any sniff test of reality shows Israel is more of a US liability today. But Netanyuhu has been recently really able to exploit Obama political weakness and force Obama to support Israel in a total reversal of position.

But we can derive another political lesson from Taiwan and Red China in the mid 1960's. As the USA and the UN pretended Taiwan was the real representative of the Chinese people and not Red China. Then along came Nixon as he threw Taiwan under the bus, and Red China gained its proper UN seat and Taiwan lost its seat. In short Israel would be foolish to always count on US support, as US support of Israel grows ever more costly to the USA politically. After the US POTUS election of 11/ 2012, regardless of the outcome, Israel might be well advised to start reversing its policies.

Or the US public perception of Israel could vanish as fast as any US German bund support prior to WW2.

The AIPAC lobby in the US is more powerful than any other. They have a firm grip on our politicians balls and will continue to do so. Which leads me into another thread, that we need to get rid of all the partied candidates, and implement term limits.

 

[EagleKeeper]

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The territory gains EK speaks of were agreed on prior to the formation of the UN.

As for the a Palestinian State, that is still buried in UN committees. And in point of fact, most nations who gained new admittance to the UN, did not get in on their first try.

But if Israel refuses to adopt a settlement freeze voluntarily, even the USA will find it untenable to side with Israel. As Israeli now behaves much like Hitler, El Duce, and Tojo.
As we can go back into history and ask, would we have had a WW2, if Hitler had stopped his land grabs with Czechoslovakia as he promised. But then Hitler kept up with more land grabs just like your Bozo Netanyuhu. And discovered himself on the reality it was the straw that broke the Camel's back.

Tell the land grab to the Philippines, Japan, Vietnam, etc.
Czechoslovakia was a country being invaded by another country twice; the second time was completely ignored. Why?
What country has Israel invaded and subjugated?

 

[EagleKeeper]

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I noted before and note it again, JEDIY should realize any shred of present Israeli legitimacy is derived from the UN creating it in 1948.

Call the UN a joke at your own peril, and remember the very UN that created Israel in 1948, can yank its legitimacy just as fast. As for the UN from 1948 to present, would have dope slapped Israel far harder if the the USA wouldn't have used its veto in the security council. And the very Hamas and Hezbollah you don't like post dated the Israeli 1967 war.

And given the events of the last decade, and especially the past two years , Hamas violence policy may well in fact make Gaza an Israeli influence free zone. As Gaza will own its air space, its own sea coast, and be free to trade with the larger world. And finally have a nation to build and be too busy doing so to bother pegging rockets at Israel that no longer is able to dominate them.

what country has had its charter revoked. Does the UN actually have the ability/authority to dissolve a country?

and Hamas/Hezbollah came into being only because the Arabs finally figured out that they could not wipe out Israel and started looking for a patsy/proxie to fulfill their egos.

Hamas is still pegging/allowing rockets at Israel 1 per day; you really think that is going to change. No-one penalizes/scolds Hamas for doing so.
Yet should Israel look in the wrong direction at Hamas; everyone is up in arms that Hamas did no wrong - those rockets are mere pinpricks and do not harm anyone.