General Petraeus Would Rather Betray Us Than Tell Us The Truth, After All.

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: OokiiNeko

For those folks who have recently returned from Iraq or are currently there, some more questions.

#1 How is the infrastructure building going? Iraqis in areas that had electricity before the war have it 24/7 now? Sewers working? Schools and hospitals open?

#2 Saw a scary thing on the Internet about how the water treatment facilities are not getting rid of all, or even most, of the bugs in the water. If you just came back, have you gotten tested for bad stuff in your system? (the guy on the vid lists the stuff to look out for)
Or do you think that guy is full of BS?

#3 Curious enough to repeat this from my last post in this thread. Have they started sandbagging the outsides of some of those cheap looking aluminum sided buildings in the camps to prevent shrapnel hits from mortars? This one really seems a no-brainer to me.

Hopefully I can get some answers from people who are first hand witnesses.

I've been in country since Feb. And I'm actually on the streets (in the Infantry), not on a big base or in the Green Zone.

Note that I can only speak to my sector. I concentrate pretty much only on where I operate. I don't get Internet or TV or Newspaper out at my COP (Company Outpost) so I don't really know what is going on outside my sector (only time I get Internet is when I get back to the FOB for a resupply run or some other thing (I'm here now because I have to testify in Iraqi court on some guys I arrested about a month ago)).

1. First my unit had to concentrate on getting security in place. As one of the first "Surge" units, we were going into a sector that hadn't had a lot (though it had some) US presense before our arrival. Now that we have gotten a lot of our security objectives in place, we are starting projects.

We've opened two clinics.
We are working on a Hospital.
We have started supplying local schools with school supplies.
We have started contracts for the building of two new schools.
Other projects are in the works/discussion phase depending on what local leadership wants

Most people have some sort of electricity though it isn't off the main power grid. Some areas haven't had city electricity for a year, but there are community generators everywhere (some supplied by the US) so it isn't like people haven't had electricity for a year.

When we first got here there were some areas that were flooded with sewage (sucked to live in, sucked to patrol in). Literally some areas it was splashing over the hood of the vehicles. But we fixed the pump station and that problem has gone away.

Water works. Even when the media reported "no water in baghdad" it seemed to be working to us. We use the local water for showers and so we would know if it wasn't working.

2. Don't know anything about that... but we don't get any news so...

3. Well, I don't live in aluminum buildings. I live in a tent. So I guess no. We have placed concrete barriers between the tents to help with shapnel but of course it wouldn't do anything if it landed right on top of us.

Stay safe and keep up the good work sir!

 

[OokiiNeko]

Datalink7,

First off, thanks for your reply and thanks for being over there. While I support you guys and gals over in the sandbox, doing your duty, the guys farther up, well not so much.

Will ask some questions to try and get an authentic snapshot of your experience on the ground in YOUR area. Can`t trust the mainstream media so much. Nor will I ask your opinion about leadership. Understand you have to be more careful about what you post here than the rest of us.

1. First my unit had to concentrate on getting security in place. As one of the first "Surge" units, we were going into a sector that hadn't had a lot (though it had some) US presense before our arrival. Now that we have gotten a lot of our security objectives in place, we are starting projects.

If you can answer, is it the US Army doing the projects or contractors?

We've opened two clinics.
We are working on a Hospital.
We have started supplying local schools with school supplies.
We have started contracts for the building of two new schools.

And how is that with the locals? Do the Iraqi people seem to appreciate it? Is it too little, too late? Or is there just hatred of Americans being in their country?

And yes, I understand it can be all three.

Will pause here and look forward to your answer.

Anyone else who is or was there, I invite you to share how it was for you IRT actual on the ground experiences.

Thanks.

 

[datalink7]

If you can answer, is it the US Army doing the projects or contractors?

US Army is paying the money to local Iraqi contractors who do the work. If necessary, we would provide security though we haven't been asked to yet. We check in on the projects but the last one I saw (school) just had a few Iraqi Army guards and they said they hadn't been attacked.

And how is that with the locals? Do the Iraqi people seem to appreciate it? Is it too little, too late? Or is there just hatred of Americans being in their country?

All three, as you guessed. But it also depends on the neighborhood. Generally speaking, Sunni neighborhoods seem more appreciative and friendly than Shia neighborhoods. Probably due to the fact taht Shia generally were, before we came, "taking over" the Sunni neighborhoods and we have mostly prevented that.

Of course, most people won't say that they "hate you" to your face. And the thing about the culture here is that people will invite you into their homes and offer you food or water even if they dislike you. Then they'll shoot you later on... So it is hard to gauge how much people hate us as opposed to not. I can say that there are plenty of people frustrated about the slow build up (and even some degredation of) services.

But also, we have started saying to local leaders and people something along the lines of "we aren't going to be here forever. We need the Iraqi people to step up and take control of their own country now othewise what happens when we leave?" When we've said this, I've seen plenty of grown men cry thinking we were leaving soon and I (or my CO) have had to reassure them that we are still going to be here for at least another 8 months.

Can`t trust the mainstream media so much.

Good thought there. As I stated before, there has been zero mainstream media presence in my Company sector. So how can they possibly know what is going on?

 

[OokiiNeko]

Datalink7,
Once again, thanks for responding. Gotta admit, its tough to not insert my own vitriol in here when asking you questions.

The Iraqi Army now patrolling the streets (nobody but US troops were patrolling two months ago).

Can you expand on that? Is it the Iraqi Army or a locally stood up police force or combo of the two?

I know you said there was just US patrolling before and now the Iraqis are helping. Do you get a warm and fuzzy that the Iraqis will continue to take on more responsibilities?

Any other thoughts on what the Iraqis are doing to help themselves?

As to the tents, just a comment. Didn`t we have something about an instant shelter (sand and cement premixed in plastic bag, just add water) that some company was trying to sell to the UN for refugee housing? Seems like that would be much better protection than a tent !!

Come home safe, and why am I the only one asking questions from "boots on ground"?

 

[Corbett]

Thanks, this thead can now be locked. Harvey has gotten all of his key prases out.

Bush lied - Check
Bushwhacko's war of lies - Check
I'm 65 years old - Check
I served my time - Check
Why dont you go fight - Check
Shameless whoring of crappy song - Check

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Corbett
Thanks, this thead can now be locked. Harvey has gotten all of his key prases out.

You forgot one that applies to your comment... FOAD, PUTZ! :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

But thanks for givng me a reason to bump the thread. :laugh:

 

[Lemon law]

Harvey is right on one thing. As long as Sherlock Holmes is correct and that villains are out there keeping the game afoot, this thread is not over until its over over there

And the death of over over there question is greatly premature. As we all pay the cost of a failed policy. Lets also put our hearts on the line for those who pay that final full measure of devotion, can it possibly trump someone who wimps out? It can if we are just pissing more good lives after bad.

Let us all discard emotion and replace it with logic.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Corbett
Thanks, this thead can now be locked. Harvey has gotten all of his key prases out.

Bush lied - Check
Bushwhacko's war of lies - Check
I'm 65 years old - Check
I served my time - Check
Why dont you go fight - Check
Shameless whoring of crappy song - Check

You forgot to capilize "War of Lies".

You also forgot his overuse of emoticons.

:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::laugh::laugh:

:evil:

:|:|:|:thumbsdown:


:thumbsdown::roll::thumbsdown:


He served his "time" alright...National Guard Reserve duty is hell on earth.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Harvey

FOAD, PUTZ! :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

But thanks for givng me a reason to bump the thread. :laugh:

Hey guys, in 40 years when I am 65, if I am half as angry and misguided and outright looney as Harvey, can one of you come and just put me out of my mysery? kthx.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Harvey

FOAD, PUTZ! :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

But thanks for givng me a reason to bump the thread. :laugh:

Hey guys, in 40 years when I am 65, if I am half as angry and misguided and outright looney as Harvey, can one of you come and just put me out of my mysery? kthx.

Sure, I would be more than willing. Just shoot me a PM when the time comes. :thumbsup:

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Harvey

FOAD, PUTZ! :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

But thanks for givng me a reason to bump the thread. :laugh:

Hey guys, in 40 years when I am 65, if I am half as angry and misguided and outright looney as Harvey, can one of you come and just put me out of my mysery? kthx.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Corbett, anyone who makes a stupid post like you just did is pretty well lost already and quite clearly hid behind the door when brains were handed out. Maybe you will or will not live to see the ripe old age of 65, but maybe just maybe you will live long enough to acquire the school of hard knocks wisdom to understand why Harvey is so angry. What part of current reality are you trying to pretend is not really happening?

If you are not bug eyed hopping mad with current US policy, there is something seriously wrong with you.

But I can't resist the temptation to point something else to you, Harvey and I will probably die of natural causes before you do because you are younger. And since GWB&co. has put all his stupidities on the national credit card, you can spend the next 40 years paying back the costs of those stupidities. Live long but you may not prosper with the debts you are saddled with.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Harvey

FOAD, PUTZ! :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

But thanks for givng me a reason to bump the thread. :laugh:

Hey guys, in 40 years when I am 65, if I am half as angry and misguided and outright looney as Harvey, can one of you come and just put me out of my mysery? kthx.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Corbett, anyone who makes a stupid post like you just did is pretty well lost already and quite clearly hid behind the door when brains were handed out. Maybe you will or will not live to see the ripe old age of 65, but maybe just maybe you will live long enough to acquire the school of hard knocks wisdom to understand why Harvey is so angry. What part of current reality are you trying to pretend is not really happening?

If you are not bug eyed hopping mad with current US policy, there is something seriously wrong with you.

But I can't resist the temptation to point something else to you, Harvey and I will probably die of natural causes before you do because you are younger. And since GWB&co. has put all his stupidities on the national credit card, you can spend the next 40 years paying back the costs of those stupidities. Live long but you may not prosper with the debts you are saddled with.

Your nose must be brown as hell by now.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: nick1985
He served his "time" alright...National Guard Reserve duty is hell on earth.

Oh... I see. I was in the U.S. Army Reserves, not the National Guard, for six years, from 1962 - 1968. I was subject to being called to active duty for that entire time, and the only reason I didn't go to Vietnam was because my commitment was up several months before my unit was activated.

I put in my time, at the time, in the unit in my area, and that's not good enough for you? Unlike your Traitor In Chief, I didn't duck out of any of my time. What kind of service have you done that qualifies you criticize the way I fulfilled my legal military obligation? :roll:

Excuse me while I dig up my old uniform so you can KISS MY BRASS!. :lips: (_|_)

Originally posted by: Corbett
Hey guys, in 40 years when I am 65, if I am half as angry and misguided and outright looney as Harvey, can one of you come and just put me out of my mysery? kthx.

You've been sucking continuously on the Bushwhackos' Kool Aid for six years, and I'm "misguided and outright looney?" :shocked:

With brain power like that, you're more likely to qualify for a Darwin Award and put yourself out of everyone's misery than to make it another 40 years. :laugh:

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To sum up the thread progress so far, we are left with the contention that Gen. Patraeus may be a somewhat honest man but GWB&co. is totally not to be trusted.

I'm not sure about that. Those rosey words about "improvements" in the NIE report were added by Gen. BetrayUs.

House to Hold Hearings on Two New Reports on Iraq

By Karen DeYoung
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 28, 2007
.
.
The NIE, requested by the White House Iraq coordinator, Lt. Gen. Douglas E. Lute, in preparation for the testimony, met with resistance from U.S. military officials in Baghdad, according to a senior U.S. military intelligence officer there. Presented with a draft of the conclusions, Petraeus succeeded in having the security judgments softened to reflect improvements in recent months, the official said.
.
.

(continues)

Considering the admin's continuouse history of lying, and the fact that they've grudgingly acknowledged that The <cough> Petraeus Report[/b] will actually be written by the Whitehouse staff, we have no way of knowing whether anything allegedly written by him is true.

And while we're talking about Petraeus' credibility, remember all those missing weapons?...

US 'loses track' of Iraq weapons

The US military cannot account for 190,000 AK-47 assault rifles and pistols given to the Iraqi security forces, an official US report says.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) says the Pentagon cannot track about 30% of the weapons distributed in Iraq over the past three years.
.
.
During this period, security training was led by Gen David Petraeus, who now commands all US forces in Iraq.

The GAO reached the estimate - 111,000 missing AK-47s and 80,000 missing pistols - by comparing the property records of the Multi-National Security Transition Command for Iraq against records maintained by Gen Petraeus of the arms and equipment he ordered..
.
(continues)

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: nick1985
He served his "time" alright...National Guard Reserve duty is hell on earth.

Oh... I see. I was in the U.S. Army Reserves, not the National Guard, for six years, from 1962 - 1968. I was subject to being called to active duty for that entire time, and the only reason I didn't go to Vietnam was because my commitment was up several months before my unit was activated.

I put in my time, at the time, in the unit in my area, and that's not good enough for you? Unlike your Traitor In Chief, I didn't duck out of any of my time. What kind of service have you done that qualifies you criticize the way I fulfilled my legal military obligation? :roll:

Excuse me while I dig up my old uniform so you can KISS MY BRASS!. :lips: (_|_)

Originally posted by: Corbett
Hey guys, in 40 years when I am 65, if I am half as angry and misguided and outright looney as Harvey, can one of you come and just put me out of my mysery? kthx.

You've been sucking continuously on the Bushwhackos' Kool Aid for six years, and I'm "misguided and outright looney?" :shocked:

With brain power like that, you're more likely to qualify for a Darwin Award and put yourself out of everyone's misery than to make it another 40 years. :laugh:

Oh forgive me, the Reserves, not the National Guard. Reserve duty, hell on earth. Have fun digging up your old uniform and playing GI Joe.

Im sorry, but screaming "chickenhawk" to those on the other side of the isle that havnt "served" when you yourself were just a reservist is a little hypocritical. It doesnt take balls made of brass to sign up for the Reserves during peacetime.

 

[JD50]

I usually get pretty pissed when people try to belittle the service of others, even if it is just the reserves or the national guard. But Harvey, you deserve it after the rash of crap that you and your fellow loonies gave Bush for his National Guard service.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: nick1985
Oh forgive me, the Reserves, not the National Guard. Reserve duty, hell on earth. Have fun digging up your old uniform and playing GI Joe.

Im sorry, but screaming "chickenhawk" to those on the other side of the isle that havnt "served" when you yourself were just a reservist is a little hypocritical.

I'm going to repeat what I said, just because you were too dense to understand it the first time.

I was in the U.S. Army Reserves from 1962 - 1968. I was subject to being called to active duty for that entire time, and the only reason I didn't go to Vietnam was because my commitment was up several months before my unit was activated.

As of 8/29/07 12:17 pm EDT, 3,733 American troops have died for their lies, tens of thousands more are wounded, scarred and disabled for life?

Why don't you tell the friends and families of all those who happened to be in the Reserves and National Guard how much less dead and wounded they are than their full time brethren?

I repeat... the only reason I didn't go to Vietnam was because my commitment was up and I got my honorable discharge several months before my unit was activated. Had I enlisted a few months later, I would have been there with them.

Why don't you explain to those Reservists and Guardsmen and their families where you've been hiding out during all of this and why you're NOT a pissant little chickenhawk who's more than willing to spill OTHER people's blood? :roll:

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: nick1985
Oh forgive me, the Reserves, not the National Guard. Reserve duty, hell on earth. Have fun digging up your old uniform and playing GI Joe.

Im sorry, but screaming "chickenhawk" to those on the other side of the isle that havnt "served" when you yourself were just a reservist is a little hypocritical.

Why don't you explain to those Reservists and Guardsmen and their families where you've been hiding out during all of this and why you're NOT a pissant little chickenhawk who's more than willing to spill OTHER people's blood? :roll:

Yeah Im a real chickenhawk Harvey...lol. Nice uninformed statement. :thumbsup:



And JD50 really hit the nail on the head. I have no problem with the Guard or the Reserves, it just seems fitting after the barrage Bush took for his Guard service from the lefties on this board.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: nick1985
Oh forgive me, the Reserves, not the National Guard. Reserve duty, hell on earth. Have fun digging up your old uniform and playing GI Joe.

Im sorry, but screaming "chickenhawk" to those on the other side of the isle that havnt "served" when you yourself were just a reservist is a little hypocritical.

I'm going to cut and paste what I said to repeat this, just because you were too dense to understand it the first time.

I was in the U.S. Army Reserves from 1962 - 1968. I was subject to being called to active duty for that entire time, and the only reason I didn't go to Vietnam was because my commitment was up several months before my unit was activated.

As of 8/29/07 12:17 pm EDT, 3,733 American troops have died for their lies, tens of thousands more are wounded, scarred and disabled for life?

Why don't you tell the friends and families of all those who happened to be in the Reserves and National Guard how much less dead and wounded they are than their full time brethren?

I repeat... the only reason I didn't go to Vietnam was because my commitment was up and I got my honorable discharge several months before my unit was activated. Had I enlisted a few months later, I would have been there with them.

Why don't you explain to those Reservists and Guardsmen and their families where you've been hiding out during all of this and why you're NOT a pissant little chickenhawk who's more than willing to spill OTHER people's blood? :roll:

Thank you very much for your service Harvey. Even though you were never in combat, simply serving puts you a notch above everyone else IMO.

Also, as you probably already know, being a Reservist in 1967 was quite different from being a Reservist in 2007 - polar opposites even.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: nick1985
Yeah Im a real chickenhawk Harvey...lol. Nice uninformed statement. :thumbsup:

I've already asked you, twice, to tell us what service you've given to show us you're not. has told us of his service. So have I.

If I'm so "uninformed," what's stopping you from informing us why you're NOT just another pissant chickenhawk loud mouth? :roll:

I have no problem with the Guard or the Reserves, it just seems fitting after the barrage Bush took for his Guard service from the lefties on this board.

I'd have no problem with Bush's "service" in the Air National Guard... If he'd done it, instead of ducking out to avoid qualifying for combat flight. If that were the worst he'd done, it would be minor crap, but lying about why he started a war that's killed 3,733 OTHER Americans makes him the Chickenhawk In Chief. :|

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Thank you very much for your service Harvey. Even though you were never in combat, simply serving puts you a notch above everyone else IMO.

Thanks. Same back at ya. Regardless of whether we disgree about a lot of things, the fact that you've served puts a lot more weight behind your opinion. :beer: :thumbsup:

 

[JD50]

Harvey, is it your contention that only the people that actually serve in the military can be in favor of a war?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Harvey

-snip-

I was in the U.S. Army Reserves from 1962 - 1968.

Seems like the Vietnam War started in 1959, so uh were you drafted into the Reserves?

And, umm, if GWB went into the Reseves so as to avoid the draft (as is so often asserted), um well never mind.

Fern

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: JD50
Harvey, is it your contention that only the people that actually serve in the military can be in favor of a war?

Of course, not. I didn't raise the issue. nick1985 did when he demeaned my service because I was in the National Guard... and he couldn't even get that right. It was the Reseves.

AFIC, that makes it fair to ask what HE's done that qualifies him to question the value of anyone else's service in any branch.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: JD50
Harvey, is it your contention that only the people that actually serve in the military can be in favor of a war?

Of course, not. I didn't raise the issue. nick1985 did when he demeaned my service because I was in the National Guard... and he couldn't even get that right. It was the Reseves.

AFIC, that makes it fair to ask what HE's done that qualifies him to question the value of anyone else's service in any branch.

Then why is it that you and your buddies call anyone that is not in the military but supports this war chickenhawks, keyboard commandos, etc....?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: JD50
Then why is it that you and your buddies call anyone that is not in the military but supports this war chickenhawks, keyboard commandos, etc....?

When those same chickenhawks are the architects of a war based entirely on LIES, and thousands of Americans to die for those lies, and those same architects actively ducked military service, it's fair to ask why they were never willing to take the same risks and make the same sacrifices.

WW II is all the proof you need to know there are legitimate reasons for taking a nation to war. The Bushwhackos' lies aren't among them.