General Petraeus Would Rather Betray Us Than Tell Us The Truth, After All.

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Genx87
Good to see the libs are prempting this report just in case it turns out to not paint the dire picture they so hope.

Believe whatever you want but the picture looks worse than you think. Tell me one absolute good news that came out of this surge and I will admit that you are right. By absolute I mean that it is something that is good for Iraqi sovereignty, the Iraqi people, and the Iraqi government. Just one.

One good thing? The people in Muhallahs 895, 893, 891, 889, 887, 885, and 883 are now safer. EJK's are down (haven't had one in over a month, whereas before we arrived they were 10+ a month), schools are being built, two clinics have opened and a hospital (to be open to both shia and sunni) is nearing completion. Two local kidnapping cells (the only two) have been shut down. Local VBIED factory, found out and shut down. The Iraqi Army now patrolling the streets (nobody but US troops were patrolling two months ago). The list goes on...

Why don't you hear about this?

Number of reporters seen in my sector = 2

One History Channel guy (so he doesn't report news, only documentary type stuff)
One AP Photojournalist (who came in early March to report on the start of the surge).

No journalists/reporters of any type seen since March.

I'm not trying to say that everything is peachy, cause it's not. But to say that there isn't anything good coming out of the surge is just ridiculous.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well at least we can all agree that there will be a Patraeus report on 9/15/2007. Although I think GWB&co. would prefer delaying it until 1/20/2009.

No, there will be a report writtten by the Whitehouse staff that they will claim was based on whatever they want us to believe Gen. Patraeus reported to them. The Bushwhackos' credibility is so far south of zero that, regardless of what it says, or how accurate it may be, we'll have no reason to believe it'll be anything more than yet another fraud.

Well then perhaps your Democrat Congress should have written to the law to force the DoD to write the report themselves... As it stands, the reason the WH is authoring the report is because "your heroes" made that a legal requirement.

GG!

Doesn't the DoD serve at the pleasure of the President?

What does that have to do with the reports being authored properly, and in complete accordance with the law passed by Congress?

You suggested it and I'm asking you a simple question?

The answer to your question is actually "no."

Hmmm, this is what Keird wrote in another thread defending you:

Originally posted by: keird

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Then do it on your own dime, because you work for me and that's not what I'm paying you for.

Service != subservience, hotshot.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Get elected, then we'll listen.

Is he lying or are you lying?

neither. The key phrase that you misused was "at the pleasure of" - which, in most cases, is only applicable to appointees.

Now, can members of "the DoD" take orders from the President? Sure.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Genx87
Good to see the libs are prempting this report just in case it turns out to not paint the dire picture they so hope.

Believe whatever you want but the picture looks worse than you think. Tell me one absolute good news that came out of this surge and I will admit that you are right. By absolute I mean that it is something that is good for Iraqi sovereignty, the Iraqi people, and the Iraqi government. Just one.

One good thing? The people in Muhallahs 895, 893, 891, 889, 887, 885, and 883 are now safer. EJK's are down (haven't had one in over a month, whereas before we arrived they were 10+ a month), schools are being built, two clinics have opened and a hospital (to be open to both shia and sunni) is nearing completion. Two local kidnapping cells (the only two) have been shut down. Local VBIED factory, found out and shut down. The Iraqi Army now patrolling the streets (nobody but US troops were patrolling two months ago). The list goes on...

Why don't you hear about this?

Number of reporters seen in my sector = 2

One History Channel guy (so he doesn't report news, only documentary type stuff)
One AP Photojournalist (who came in early March to report on the start of the surge).

No journalists/reporters of any type seen since March.

I'm not trying to say that everything is peachy, cause it's not. But to say that there isn't anything good coming out of the surge is just ridiculous.

The sad thing is that none of the anti-war lunatics here at ATP&N will believe a single word you just wrote; and your sector won't likely see another reporter anytime in the near future.

Remember, war-time reporters follow the blood... sad, but true.

The key is to ignore them as you keep up the good fight and remain safe!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well at least we can all agree that there will be a Patraeus report on 9/15/2007. Although I think GWB&co. would prefer delaying it until 1/20/2009.

No, there will be a report writtten by the Whitehouse staff that they will claim was based on whatever they want us to believe Gen. Patraeus reported to them. The Bushwhackos' credibility is so far south of zero that, regardless of what it says, or how accurate it may be, we'll have no reason to believe it'll be anything more than yet another fraud.

Well then perhaps your Democrat Congress should have written to the law to force the DoD to write the report themselves... As it stands, the reason the WH is authoring the report is because "your heroes" made that a legal requirement.

GG!

Doesn't the DoD serve at the pleasure of the President?

What does that have to do with the reports being authored properly, and in complete accordance with the law passed by Congress?

Come on man there isn't an argument that what the WH is doing is legal or not, just that it's scummy. They were/are being extremely misleading by promoting this upcoming report as General Patraeus' report and using his credibility to lend weight to it. This is happening at the same time that we are learning that he isn't even writing the report. No matter what your opinion on the war and the report, this is not a very professional or responsible way to issue something.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Well at least we can all agree that there will be a Patraeus report on 9/15/2007. Although I think GWB&co. would prefer delaying it until 1/20/2009.

No, there will be a report writtten by the Whitehouse staff that they will claim was based on whatever they want us to believe Gen. Patraeus reported to them. The Bushwhackos' credibility is so far south of zero that, regardless of what it says, or how accurate it may be, we'll have no reason to believe it'll be anything more than yet another fraud.

Well then perhaps your Democrat Congress should have written to the law to force the DoD to write the report themselves... As it stands, the reason the WH is authoring the report is because "your heroes" made that a legal requirement.

GG!

Doesn't the DoD serve at the pleasure of the President?

What does that have to do with the reports being authored properly, and in complete accordance with the law passed by Congress?

You suggested it and I'm asking you a simple question?

The answer to your question is actually "no."

Hmmm, this is what Keird wrote in another thread defending you:

Originally posted by: keird

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Then do it on your own dime, because you work for me and that's not what I'm paying you for.

Service != subservience, hotshot.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Get elected, then we'll listen.

Is he lying or are you lying?

neither. The key phrase that you misused was "at the pleasure of" - which, in most cases, is only applicable to appointees.

Now, can members of "the DoD" take orders from the President? Sure.

:laugh: Now you're focusing on semantics. That's a sure sign of a losing argument.

 

[Narmer]

^

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Narmer
^

Your question was a legal question. In dealing with legalities, symantics are very important.

The answer to your original question is still "no"... not that i have a clue what your point was to begin with, as you tend to leave that part out of your posts...

 

[Narmer]

^

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
500k soldiers is the minimum limit to resolve this situation...

Maybe, except that we don't have 500,000 spare trained, equipped troops to send anywhere, right now. The Bushwhackos saw to that.

Yer doin' a heck of a job, Bushie. :roll:

You do if you ask for it, a wise man would eliminate all contracts given and go to the UN to ask for help, i'm not saying it it has to be under UN flag but as a forum for these kinds of things the UN can work to get the other NATO forces on board, 500K is nothing when you consider the tenths of millions of troops that could be deployed in a week or so.

It would take a bit of humility but at this point i think that would only do the US good.

It's never too late to call upon NATO troops, heck, if there was a genuine effort even i would sign up again in February and i know i'm not alone in thinking like that.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Narmer
^

Your question was a legal question. In dealing with legalities, symantics are very important.

The answer to your original question is still "no"... not that i have a clue what your point was to begin with, as you tend to leave that part out of your posts...

I think that what you are trying to say is that if there is a requirement for a DoD employee to break the law to follow his orders then that order in itself is unlawful and should not be carried out?

That is assuming that they have the same rules to play by that i do.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

Narner, does that answer your question?

 

[Lemon law]

To sum up the thread progress so far, we are left with the contention that Gen. Patraeus may be a somewhat honest man but GWB&co. is totally not to be trusted.

Therefore, when congress in all its non-wisdom asks the white house to actually author the Patraeus report, the GWB&co. lies mantra will be the dominant metric
and all conclusions rest on highly dubious assumptions.

Given the stakes are rather high, and go no go decisions will rest on the report, we are not in a very logically pleasant position. What is new? The GWB&co. position is that its what you hire a President to do in making the tough calls. But given the GWB&co. track record on the tough calls, we are talking consistently wrong here.

And are finally left with a possible boil down conclusion. Whatever GWB&co. advocates, do the opposite and we will almost certainly be logically correct.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I'm one of those who hangs my ass on the line, nearly every day

That is a shame. My commute is ok. Is DC traffic that dangerous or is it your driving? Maybe you meant bathroom accidents. You can get traction strips for your shower so you do not fall so much. Or wear a bicycle helmet. Maybe you are blowing hot air. I can not help with that.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I'm one of those who hangs my ass on the line, nearly every day

That is a shame. My commute is ok. Is DC traffic that dangerous or is it your driving? Maybe you meant bathroom accidents. You can get traction strips for your shower so you do not fall so much. Or wear a bicycle helmet. Maybe you are blowing hot air. I can not help with that.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I don't get that guy. Does he think we're dumb blondes who he can play the sympathy-hero card to on the internet?

Hey Palehorse, show us your battlescars, but keep out the ones made by your boyfriend:laugh:


-----------------------------------------------
Uncalled for.

Please come back in a week.

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

 

[Fern]

^ Unnecessary personal insult IMO. :frown:

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Fern
^ Unnecessary personal insult IMO. :frown:

Where's the insult? A bit sensitive are we?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To sum up the thread progress so far, we are left with the contention that Gen. Patraeus may be a somewhat honest man but GWB&co. is totally not to be trusted.

Therefore, when congress in all its non-wisdom asks the white house to actually author the Patraeus report, the GWB&co. lies mantra will be the dominant metric
and all conclusions rest on highly dubious assumptions.

Given the stakes are rather high, and go no go decisions will rest on the report, we are not in a very logically pleasant position. What is new? The GWB&co. position is that its what you hire a President to do in making the tough calls. But given the GWB&co. track record on the tough calls, we are talking consistently wrong here.

And are finally left with a possible boil down conclusion. Whatever GWB&co. advocates, do the opposite and we will almost certainly be logically correct.

We've got a couple of weeks at least before the Patraeus report is due.

Why doesn't Congress just pass a law saying that they get direct access to Patraeus's unedited information, the information that the Admin will get?

I mean, if everybody's so worried about it, how freakin hard can it be to put that in writing and get a quick vote on it?

Fern

 

[Lemon law]

As I recall palehorse74 got rotated stateside and hence is not currently putting his life on the line in foreign lands. It also may explain why, in the battle to win hearts and minds, the mini surge is doing better than expected without palehorse74's arrogant attitude losing us the battle. And palehorse74 is currently only alienating people who are on line at P&N.

In the grand scheme of things, I can live with that.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
As I recall palehorse74 got rotated stateside and hence is not currently putting his life on the line in foreign lands.

He admitted he is in DC or near it.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Fern
^ Unnecessary personal insult IMO. :frown:

Where's the insult? A bit sensitive are we?

Originally posted by: Narmer

Hey Palehorse, show us your battlescars, but keep out the ones made by your boyfriend:laugh:

Looks like a snide way to call him a homosexual. And he's in the military, that would be grounds for a discharge.

Fern

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I'm one of those who hangs my ass on the line, nearly every day

That is a shame. My commute is ok. Is DC traffic that dangerous or is it your driving? Maybe you meant bathroom accidents. You can get traction strips for your shower so you do not fall so much. Or wear a bicycle helmet. Maybe you are blowing hot air. I can not help with that.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I don't get that guy. Does he think we're dumb blondes who he can play the sympathy-hero card to on the internet?

Hey Palehorse, show us your battlescars, but keep out the ones made by your boyfriend:laugh:

Personal attack?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Narmer has been notified that he stepped way over the line.

Senior Anandtech Moderator
Common Courtesy

 

[trenchfoot]

as of this afternoon, an msnbc reporter is still saying that the president is anxiously awaiting patreaus' report on the situation in iraq. i can see why.

and once again, millions of sheeple get led by the nose down the gilded primrose path of misinformation. what do we do? what do we do?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: tweaker2
and once again, millions of sheeple get led by the nose down the gilded primrose path of misinformation. what do we do? what do we do?

See the second half of the third verse of my song. If you're interested, click the title.

Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?

Verse 3:

I see men who are trying to squeeze us,
And taking whatever they can,
While they buy those who try to appease us with scraps from their table.

It gets harder each day to break even.
This wasn't a part of my plan.
Time is right to be fighting or leaving this tower of Babel.

And who's watching over who's watching over you?
Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

 

[OokiiNeko]

For those folks who have recently returned from Iraq or are currently there, some more questions.

#1 How is the infrastructure building going? Iraqis in areas that had electricity before the war have it 24/7 now? Sewers working? Schools and hospitals open?

#2 Saw a scary thing on the Internet about how the water treatment facilities are not getting rid of all, or even most, of the bugs in the water. If you just came back, have you gotten tested for bad stuff in your system? (the guy on the vid lists the stuff to look out for)
Or do you think that guy is full of BS?

#3 Curious enough to repeat this from my last post in this thread. Have they started sandbagging the outsides of some of those cheap looking aluminum sided buildings in the camps to prevent shrapnel hits from mortars? This one really seems a no-brainer to me.

Hopefully I can get some answers from people who are first hand witnesses.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: OokiiNeko

For those folks who have recently returned from Iraq or are currently there, some more questions.

#1 How is the infrastructure building going? Iraqis in areas that had electricity before the war have it 24/7 now? Sewers working? Schools and hospitals open?

#2 Saw a scary thing on the Internet about how the water treatment facilities are not getting rid of all, or even most, of the bugs in the water. If you just came back, have you gotten tested for bad stuff in your system? (the guy on the vid lists the stuff to look out for)
Or do you think that guy is full of BS?

#3 Curious enough to repeat this from my last post in this thread. Have they started sandbagging the outsides of some of those cheap looking aluminum sided buildings in the camps to prevent shrapnel hits from mortars? This one really seems a no-brainer to me.

Hopefully I can get some answers from people who are first hand witnesses.

I've been in country since Feb. And I'm actually on the streets (in the Infantry), not on a big base or in the Green Zone.

Note that I can only speak to my sector. I concentrate pretty much only on where I operate. I don't get Internet or TV or Newspaper out at my COP (Company Outpost) so I don't really know what is going on outside my sector (only time I get Internet is when I get back to the FOB for a resupply run or some other thing (I'm here now because I have to testify in Iraqi court on some guys I arrested about a month ago)).

1. First my unit had to concentrate on getting security in place. As one of the first "Surge" units, we were going into a sector that hadn't had a lot (though it had some) US presense before our arrival. Now that we have gotten a lot of our security objectives in place, we are starting projects.

We've opened two clinics.
We are working on a Hospital.
We have started supplying local schools with school supplies.
We have started contracts for the building of two new schools.
Other projects are in the works/discussion phase depending on what local leadership wants

Most people have some sort of electricity though it isn't off the main power grid. Some areas haven't had city electricity for a year, but there are community generators everywhere (some supplied by the US) so it isn't like people haven't had electricity for a year.

When we first got here there were some areas that were flooded with sewage (sucked to live in, sucked to patrol in). Literally some areas it was splashing over the hood of the vehicles. But we fixed the pump station and that problem has gone away.

Water works. Even when the media reported "no water in baghdad" it seemed to be working to us. We use the local water for showers and so we would know if it wasn't working.

2. Don't know anything about that... but we don't get any news so...

3. Well, I don't live in aluminum buildings. I live in a tent. So I guess no. We have placed concrete barriers between the tents to help with shapnel but of course it wouldn't do anything if it landed right on top of us.