GeForce Titan coming end of February

[BallaTheFeared]

Yes, you are confused. GK110 is the next gen replacement for GF110. It's not GTX 780. It's not replacing the 680. The 680 was GK104. Guess which chip that was the next gen for?

GK110 is the same gen as GK104, they're just simply different designs.

High vs Mid as you would; range wise.

Kepler is the generation, 28nm is the process node, GK104 vs GK110 is the target design differences... As I said high end vs low end, but you can think of it as "big vs little".

:whiste:

 

[RussianSensation]

No it's really not. Comparing Titan to the 580 is the same thing, comparing 7970 to Titan is tottally different, Titan doesn't get a full node shrink.

Did NV raise the price from $499-649 to $899 each time they introduced new nodes and huge performance increases? 8800GTX -> GTX280 -> GTX480/580. Also, not sure how you can even call the Titan a GTX580 replacement to be honest if only 10,000 will be made? Maybe NV is ready to replace the 690 with the Titan and discontinue the former.

 

[3DVagabond]

Did NV raise the price from $499-649 to $899 each time they introduced new nodes and huge performance increases? 8800GTX -> GTX280 -> GTX480/580. Also, not sure how you can even call the Titan a GTX580 replacement to be honest if only 10,000 will be made? Maybe NV is ready to replace the 690 with the Titan and discontinue the former.

I'm calling it a replacement for the 580. The limited is either still awful yields, which I doubt, or marketing, which is far more likely.

I don't think it'll replace the 690. The 690 is likely to be enough faster to get ~$100 more for it than Titan, even if it is dual GPU.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Did NV raise the price from $499-649 to $899 each time they introduced new nodes and huge performance increases? 8800GTX -> GTX280 -> GTX480/580. Also, not sure how you can even call the Titan a GTX580 replacement to be honest if only 10,000 will be made? Maybe NV the total allotment of GTX690's is running out and NV is ready to replace it with the Titan.

Nvidia does what the market and their customers will allow, 8800 had a high priced card, 200 series started high but AMD forced it to come down, with 400/500 they didn't have a large performance lead and AMD was already priced low.

I'm not attempting to justify the Titan for you or anyone else on this forum. Merely convey the simple facts that Titan has no equal, it will be priced where it wants to be - exactly where they can sell it.

Now as far as it being a real card, well you can buy it. But if you want to get into a discussion about how terrible this generation has been, and this product just further illustrates how bad it is I wouldn't contest that at all. This is the product I expect last year, except I like you would have thought it would be $500-550.


The only card you can really compare this to is the $600 6GB 7970, and that really isn't even a far comparison because this card will outclass that card in performance by several price tiers.

 

[OCGuy]

I haven't seen this level of pre-damage control in quite a while.

Maybe it is because AMD either is staying quiet about a response or flat out doesn't have one.

I can't imagine why there would be so much hate for a yet-to-be-released product coming on the market. If it doesn't fit your needs or budget, don't buy it. Would you suggest they keep it off the market, just because you don't like it, for whatever that reason may be?

 

[3DVagabond]

I haven't seen this level of pre-damage control in quite a while.

Maybe it is because AMD either is staying quiet about a response or flat out doesn't have one.

I can't imagine why there would be so much hate for a yet-to-be-released product coming on the market. If it doesn't fit your needs or budget, don't buy it. Would you suggest they keep it off the market, just because you don't like it, for whatever that reason may be?

No hate for the product being shown. Just the pricing. I'm confused on what you are chalking up to damage control though? Or what response AMD does or doesn't have matters?

Besides, I would assume by the pricing it means AMD doesn't have a response and nVidia knows it.

 

[2is]

Yeah, I'm not getting the damage control remark either. I absolutely love that there is new and exciting products coming out like Titan, but I too am not happy about the price, so every now and again, when the opportunity presents itself, I'll complain about the price.

Yes, I'm fully aware of my option not to buy the product, I'm also fully aware of my option to complain about it. Other people need to be fully aware of the ignore function of the forum of they only want to hear (read) things pleasant to themselves.

 

[SolMiester]

Well, Ares II is $1500 and there is only 1000 of them, but its not 2 x perf/$ of the 7970 either, and still has to put up with CF issues.....
Prices for these types of cards are always going to be unrealistic....but they are very cool to read about....

 

[badb0y]

I haven't seen this level of pre-damage control in quite a while.

Maybe it is because AMD either is staying quiet about a response or flat out doesn't have one.

I can't imagine why there would be so much hate for a yet-to-be-released product coming on the market. If it doesn't fit your needs or budget, don't buy it. Would you suggest they keep it off the market, just because you don't like it, for whatever that reason may be?

lol...what an idiotic statement.

 

[tviceman]

I *love* how the comparisons in this thread are OC'd 7970GE vs. stock Titan's supposed performance. Wouldn't it be more prudent to compare OC'd cards vs. OC'd cards?

And I *love* how when the hd7970 came out, everyone had to compare gtx580 3gb cards with the hd7970, but right now the standard comparison between Titan and 7970GE is hd7970GE 3gb vs. Titan 6gb.

Nobody is arging that Titan is a value play, but so many posts have attempted to make the comparison as uneven as possible. Do reviews hit at midnight tonight, in the morning tomorrow, or tomorrow midnight?

 

[RussianSensation]

Maybe it is because AMD either is staying quiet about a response or flat out doesn't have one.

AMD already disclosed their entire roadmap for 2013. HD7970GE will be the fastest desktop card until end of the year. The cost-benefit analysis just isn't there. NV already sells K20X chips, which means selling some excess K20X cards to boost their brand image is very logical. We are just discussing the price of the Titan. The 50% increase in performance or faster over the 680 is impressive. No one is denying that. I love that the Titan is moving the industry forward in 2013, which means 20nm GPUs would have to be that much better to make them worthwhile. With NV raising the bar 50-60%, that puts even more pressure on Volcanic Islands / Maxwell to deliver amazing performance in 2014.

I *love* how the comparisons in this thread are OC'd 7970GE vs. stock Titan's supposed performance. Wouldn't it be more prudent to compare OC'd cards vs. OC'd cards?

Please read the thread again. All cases were discussed from all angles equally to arrive at the same conclusion.

HD7970 stock vs. 580 stock (Titan stock vs. 1Ghz 7970 stock)
HD7970 OC vs. 580 stock (Titan OC vs. 1Ghz 7970 stock)
HD7970 OC vs. 580 OC (Titan OC vs. 7970 OC)

In all those cases the Titan appears to lose on price/performance compared to any of the 3 cases of 7970 vs. 580. Therefore people who complained about 7970's launch price (like me) are consistent regarding Titan's high price. Yet certain people who complained about 7970's launch price are giving Titan a pass. You can read the thread to see who those people are. If people just admitted a long time ago that Titan is even more overpriced than 7970 was relative to the 580, then none of this would have needed to be reiterated; and we would just continue to focus on performance only.

Well, Ares II is $1500 and there is only 1000 of them, but its not 2 x perf/$ of the 7970 either, and still has to put up with CF issues.....

Ya, and the ARES is an overpriced turd. You can buy 3x GTX680 Lightnings or almost 4x 1Ghz HD7970s. Only the most hardcore AMD fanboys or people with a money tree/e-Peen swinging complex/GPU collectors would buy the ARES 2. Asus releases such cards as a marketing exercise to showcase what they can do. If the Titan is viewed from a perspective of a limited edition card, there is absolutely nothing wrong with its price. It could have been $1,500 at that point. If the Titan is viewed as a true successor to the 580, then it's price is out to lunch.

And I *love* how when the hd7970 came out, everyone had to compare gtx580 3gb cards with the hd7970, but right now the standard comparison between Titan and 7970GE is hd7970GE 3gb vs. Titan 6gb.

The comparison here was made to a $440-450 GTX580 1.5GB. There is a difference though because moving from 3GB to 6GB is worthless, as was already proven by HD7970 3GB vs. 6GB versions. The extra 6GB on 7970 or Titan is meaningless over 3GB cards. GTX580's 1.5GB of VRAM is a liability in games with mods now though.

 

[tviceman]

When has the highest end card ever been the best bang for the buck Russian? When has the highest end card outperformed the competition's comparable generation by >35% and been a "great investment"?

Why has there been no comparisons of 7970GE 6gb cards to Titan in the price / performance aspect in this thread from those exremely critical of this launch? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814202005

EDIT: Hmmmmmm, Titan is rumored to be 33% more expensive than this card, and is expected to be >=35% faster. WEIRD.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

When has the highest end card ever been the best bang for the buck Russian? When has the highest end card outperformed the competition's comparable generation by >35% and been a "great investment"?

Why has there been no comparisons of 7970GE 6gb cards to Titan in the price / performance aspect in this thread from those exremely critical of this launch? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814202005

EDIT: Hmmmmmm, Titan is rumored to be 33% more expensive than this card, and is expected to be >=35% faster. WEIRD.

I brought it up, but it was ignored - I imagine this will be too.

 

[tviceman]

It was how everyone compared the gtx580 to the hd7970 when it came out, despite the fact that the gtx580 was sold 95% of the time as a 1.5gb card. It's only fair to treat each release the same. Titan is overpriced, just like the hd7970 was when it first came out. The difference is that there will be no equal to Titan from AMD for the entire year, whereas Nvidia responded to the hd7970 in a scant 10 weeks.

 

[Keysplayr]

When has the highest end card ever been the best bang for the buck Russian? When has the highest end card outperformed the competition's comparable generation by >35% and been a "great investment"?

Why has there been no comparisons of 7970GE 6gb cards to Titan in the price / performance aspect in this thread from those exremely critical of this launch? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814202005

EDIT: Hmmmmmm, Titan is rumored to be 33% more expensive than this card, and is expected to be >=35% faster. WEIRD.

Man, your EDIT was funnier than hell. Stitch in my side even.

 

[3DVagabond]

AMD already disclosed their entire roadmap for 2013. HD7970GE will be the fastest desktop card until end of the year.

Is that so?

LINK
TR: Let me make sure that I get this, because I'm still not clear and I don't want to write the wrong thing. You're telling me that the 7000 series is going to remain stable throughout the year, and that there will be new products in the 7000 series, and that there will be new chips in Sea Islands in addition to Mars and Oland that come out during that span of time? Is that correct? Including larger chips than Mars and Oland? But they'll be under the 7000 branding?

Darren McPhee: With the exception of not giving you details on that last question regarding size, yes, yes, and yes.

TR: So it's possible that the only thing we'll see is smaller chips than Mars and Oland?

Darren McPhee: I can't comment on the size. It doesn't . . . [trails off]

TR: Will Tahiti remain your high-end product throughout this span?

Darren McPhee: [pause] The 7900 series will be a focus for the rest of 2013.

Roy Taylor: Why don't we have another one of these calls in a couple of weeks and we can tell you some more.

All they've really said is that new desktop cards released will be HD 7***. He distinctly does not say that Tahiti will remain their high end product He also said he can say more in a couple of weeks. What will change?

Console announcements? Not sure why that would matter to the discussion about discrete graphics.

Titan release? Could be what they are waiting for.

 

[tviceman]

Ya and then I said if the Titan is 50% faster than 680, it would be just 40% faster than 7970Ghz at 1600P, which means Titan OC would likely be 60% faster than the stock HD7970Ghz. Hence the comparison of 60% faster HD7970 OC vs. stock 580 and 60% faster Titan OC vs. a stock 7970 Ghz. HD7970 carried a $100 premium for that 60% and Titan is carrying a $500 one over the 1Ghz 7970.

A 21% overclock on Titan would make it 70% faster - not 60% faster - than a stock 7970GE according to your performance expectations

 

[sensiballfeel]

Watching this one! Right now not seem like will replace my 690 and waiting for store pricing, so up in the air! these leaks pricing are scary and too expensive if it is not faster! Maybe next week ?

 

[RussianSensation]

A 21% overclock on Titan would make it 70% faster - not 60% faster - than a stock 7970GE according to your performance expectations

Ya what about it. Calculate the cost per % increase to get the price/performance. HD7970 @ 1180mhz was 60% faster than 580 for a $150 price increase. The Titan OC might be 70% faster for a $400 price increase. The Titan is still more overpriced than 7970 was vs. 580. Stock vs. stock, OC vs. stock, OC vs. OC. The Titan always delivers worse price/performance than the case of 7970 vs. 580. Why did the same people who ripped 7970 apart as I did are keeping quiet this time?

Also, as I said why would you even talk about $600-700 6GB 7970s? The extra VRAM is worthless. Going from 1.5GB to 3GB was not worthless. That comparison is not even valid. Most of us would take a $799 3GB Titan than a $899 6GB one.

 

[tviceman]

The comparison here was made to a $440-450 GTX580 1.5GB. There is a difference though because moving from 3GB to 6GB is worthless, as was already proven by HD7970 3GB vs. 6GB versions. The extra 6GB on 7970 or Titan is meaningless over 3GB cards. GTX580's 1.5GB of VRAM is a liability in games with mods now though.

Nonononoonono I specifically remember people, a great many people who are involved in this very thread at one point or many, only thought it was valid and fair to compare the scant few 3gb gtx580's the hd7970's. Because those same people did not want to face reality that AMD's best and newest card didn't offer a noticeable, if any, increased perf/$$ over the previous generation's best card. Do not even begin to start twisting reality with what happened a year ago.

 

[badb0y]

It was how everyone compared the gtx580 to the hd7970 when it came out, despite the fact that the gtx580 was sold 95% of the time as a 1.5gb card. It's only fair to treat each release the same. Titan is overpriced, just like the hd7970 was when it first came out. The difference is that there will be no equal to Titan from AMD for the entire year, whereas Nvidia responded to the hd7970 in a scant 10 weeks.

GTX 580 1.5 GB was still around $450-$500 when the HD 7970 came out so what exactly does that change? It was still a horrible value compared to the HD 7970 regardless of what SKU specifically you compare.

I'm not going to comment on Titan or it's price vs. performance until I have some cold hard data to look at but at the rumored $900 price tag they have already lost me as a customer now I am just curious to see how the card will perform.

 

[tviceman]

Also, as I said why would you even talk about $600-700 6GB 7970s? The extra VRAM is worthless. Going from 1.5GB to 3GB was not worthless. That comparison is not even valid. Most of us would take a $799 3GB Titan than a $899 6GB one.

Users here, in droves, thought that the only fair comparison between the 7970 and gtx580 was with the 3gb gtx580. The same people saying Titan is raping your mom and stealing from your pantry are the ones who thought the gtx580 1.5gb vs. 7970 comparisons were invalid.

I WONDER WHY? Now apparently those same people are shifting goalposts to fit their argument so they can maintain their forum cred and rep.

 

[RussianSensation]

Users here, in droves, thought that the only fair comparison between the 7970 and gtx580 was with the 3gb gtx580. The same people saying Titan is raping your mom and stealing from your pantry are the ones who thought the gtx580 1.5gb vs. 7970 comparisons were invalid.

If you read this thread the comparison was fairly made to $440-450 GTX580 versions not > $500 ones. But as I said 1.5GB --> 3GB actually mattered. 3GB --> 6GB makes no tangible difference.

Is that so?

AMD has been very careful with their words here, but the gist of matters is that the 7900 series will remain the mainstay of AMD’s enthusiast product line until the end of 2013.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6751/amd-reiterates-2013-gpu-plans-sea-islands-beyond

Sounds like AMD will launch some HD7000 desktop cards, like lower end 384 SP ones or close some gaps in the line-up between 7770 and 7970GE. It seems almost certain there that HD7970GE will remain the fastest single AMD desktop chip until the end of the year.

When has the highest end card ever been the best bang for the buck Russian? When has the highest end card outperformed the competition's comparable generation by >35% and been a "great investment"?

HD7970 OC. Outperformed the 580 > 35%, paid for itself. The only time in GPU history.

No one is making a claim that high end cards should have amazing price/performance. It's understood that they don't. Again, I think you didn't read the thread in detail to get the context. If the Titan is viewed as a limited edition card, $900, $1000, $1,500, $2,000 are all justified. If the Titan is viewed as a GTX580's real replacement, its $900 price is laughable because that essentially means NV is establishing new price levels of $500 for mid-range chips like GK104/GM104 and $900-$1000 for flagships. See my point now?

 

[tviceman]

GTX 580 1.5 GB was still around $450-$500 when the HD 7970 came out so what exactly does that change? It was still a horrible value compared to the HD 7970 regardless of what SKU specifically you compare.

Wrong, look at my post above with the graphs.

 

[badb0y]

Wrong, look at my post above with the graphs.

Hmmm, looks about even to me with the GTX 580 having a slight advantage. Where do you think Titan will land on that chart?