GeForce Titan coming end of February

[3DVagabond]

2560x1600 4AA - 16 Games
GTX690 = 167%
HD7970GE = 110%
GTX680 = 100%
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/test-17-grafikkarten-im-vergleich/3/

If the Titan is 50-60% faster than 680, the numbers that make sense based on specs / rumours, that would place it at 150%-160%.

160% / 110% = 45.4% faster than HD7970GE
150% / 110% = 36.4% faster than HD7970GE

Taking the mid-point: 40.9% (or 155% / 110%)

You'd think you were playing a shell game as confused as it's making people.

Actually, I think they're just grasping at straws to try and discredit you, rather than what you are saying. That's getting really common lately. Notice nobody is complaining about you allowing for a 50% to 60% performance increase? I think that's because you are being very generous. We'll see, though.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The only comparable card AMD has is the 6GB GHz 7970, which is $600.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814202005


Right? 3GB 580 vs 3GB 7970, isn't that how it went down?

 

[SolMiester]

Jesus, this forum is a joke!

 

[RussianSensation]

That's what we're discussing now, first to justify the 7970's price increase, which now we've added overclocking of 1.26GHz power guzzling performance to the 7970 vs a laughable 860MHz 580.

It's not about justifying 7970's launch price but putting into context people who complained about 7970's launch price but suddenly they are MIA when it comes to Titan's $900 price. Many just pointed out the double-standard/hypocrisy.

This is all an effort by someone who paid ~$650-700 to justify their purchase.

I am not sure who paid those prices for the 7970 unless you mean for 2 of them.

I expect some nice overclocking from Titan, even 1200Mhz would be a 40% overclock and fall well within 28nm clock thresholds.. Hopefully Nvidia gives it's the voltage needed to hit those clocks, it shouldn't be bandwidth starve like the mid-range 680.

1200mhz from 878mhz? That would be nice. GTX560Ti overclocked much better than the 580 though. I don't think you can just assume the Titan can hit the same clocks as the 680 unless it's voltage unlocked and on water. You think that stock cooler could handle 300W?

 

[notty22]

You'd think you were playing a shell game as confused as it's making people.

Actually, I think they're just grasping at straws to try and discredit you, rather than what you are saying. That's getting really common lately. Notice nobody is complaining about you allowing for a 50% to 60% performance increase? I think that's because you are being very generous. We'll see, though.

Who is trying to discredit him? By answering his posts? He has over a 100 in this thread alone, and I'm sorry he is confusing me. The arguments shift and change, I still don't understand him asking if I was calling out the weight of aftermarket cards?

edit: The Titan is not even out yet. Speculation gone crazy!

 

[BallaTheFeared]

It's not about justifying 7970's launch price but putting into context people who complained about 7970's launch price but suddenly they are MIA when it comes to Titan's $900 price. Many just pointed out the double-standard/hypocrisy.

Nobody here is saying it's a price/performance card, it's a specialty card.

The only reason this is an issue is because people from a year ago are still butthurt.

This isn't even a real card, it's a novelty release. Hence the reference design, hence the 6GB of memory, HENCE THE NAME.


Why does everything have to be a freaking AMD vs Nvidia battle? It's a cool card, too much for me, but whatever I sure as heck won't run around crying about a $1000 2011 processor offering less perf/price than a $200 i5, jesus what is wrong with this forum?

I am not sure who paid those prices for the 7970 unless you mean for 2 of them.

Nope, just one card.

1200mhz from 878mhz? That would be nice. GTX560Ti overclocked much better than the 580 though. I don't think you can just assume the Titan can hit the same clocks as the 680 unless it's voltage unlocked and on water. You think that stock cooler could handle 300W?

No it didn't the 560Ti topped out around 950MHz, the 580 topped around 900MHz. Same with the 570, that's where all the EVGA cards started to pop VRMs.

I don't know what the cooler can handle yet, but at that price my only concern would be what the chip can handle. If I was spending $900 for a single card I'd be looking at water without question.

 

[blastingcap]

Who is trying to discredit him? By answering his posts? He has over a 100 in this thread alone, and I'm sorry he is confusing me. The arguments shift and change, I still don't understand him asking if I was calling out the weight of aftermarket cards?

edit: The Titan is not even out yet. Speculation gone crazy!

I think your first link was supposed to be: http://forums.anandtech.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=2296980 and can also be accessed by clicking on the number of replies in a thread. It's always interesting to me to see who the most active people are in a thread, like the time keys had way more replies in a thread about AMD drivers than anyone else. :whiste:

 

[3DVagabond]

Who is trying to discredit him? By answering his posts? He has over a 100 in this thread alone, and I'm sorry he is confusing me. The arguments shift and change, I still don't understand him asking if I was calling out the weight of aftermarket cards?

edit: The Titan is not even out yet. Speculation gone crazy!

Not directed at you. Balla and OCGuy seemed to be struggling a bit, though.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Not directed at you. Balla and OCGuy seemed to be struggling a bit, though.

Struggling with what

 

[3DVagabond]

Struggling with what

Russian's numbers.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Russian's numbers.

What about them? They're pointless, AMD doesn't have a comparable card. It's like comparing a 7850 vs a 7970.

Guess which one loses based on this thread? Oh we all already knew that though didn't we?

 

[RussianSensation]

Nope, just one card.

Who paid $650-700 for an HD7970 3GB? $549 was MSRP for reference cards and after-market cards were $599. I personally got mine much less than those prices since I waited for HD7970 vs. GTX680 price wars.

No it didn't the 560Ti topped out around 950MHz, the 580 topped around 900MHz. Same with the 570, that's where all the EVGA cards started to pop VRMs.

560Ti OC exceeded 1Ghz. Smaller chips can often overclock much better than larger more complex ones. Same story with GTX460 OC vs. GTX480 OC.

Who is trying to discredit him? By answering his posts? He has over a 100 in this thread alone, and I'm sorry he is confusing me. The arguments shift and change, I still don't understand him asking if I was calling out the weight of aftermarket cards?

Ya, all those replies were unnecessary but some people couldn't grasp the points for some reason, which means I had to explain myself 10x over:

1) Reference 690 cooler design has nothing to do with reference HD7000/GTX500/600 cards. People for some reason assumed that the Titan would run hot and loud if it uses a reference cooler. I responded to the claim suggesting that if Titan goes with a GTX690 style "reference" design, which it is doing based on today's information, it does not necessarily have to run hot and loud. This is because GTX690's cooler is probably 2x more expensive than the cheap coolers on the 580/7970/680 cards and the heatsink/fan combo is of much higher quality.

2) Despite how great the GTX690-style Tital cooler is, something like the cooler on the Zotac AMP! GTX480 would still vastly outperform it because open air coolers are superior in most cases for single GPU use wrt to noise levels, temperatures and overclocking. From an aesthetic point of view and to allow for 3-way SLI, NV of course went with the elegant and still good GTX690 style cooler.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

560Ti OC exceeded 1Ghz.

580 exceeding 1GHz

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...ightning-xtreme-edition-xe-3gb-review-18.html


I was speaking in general, lightning 680s can do 1400+ as you well know, I was aiming for something more realistic

 

[3DVagabond]

What about them? They're pointless, AMD doesn't have a comparable card. It's like comparing a 7850 vs a 7970.

Guess which one loses based on this thread? Oh we all already knew that though didn't we?

They aren't pointless. You are just missing the point. 7850 to 7970 are the same generation. So, no it's not the same at all. Russian is talking about the generational perf/$ increase being charged for the Titan. It's huge!

The 7970 was more expensive than the 6970 and had a larger chip to match. Add to that it was on an immature process. Everyone went mad then. Titan is not as big, from what we are told, as the 580 and is on a mature 28nm process and the price increase seems to be justified with it's fans.

You, Balla, who championed the perf/$ of your 2 generation old SLI setup compared to Tahiti so much that it actually became a joke around here, are now completely on the other side of the fence with Titan.

 

[RussianSensation]

They aren't pointless. You are just missing the point. 7850 to 7970 are the same generation. So, no it's not the same at all. Russian is talking about the generational perf/$ increase being charged for the Titan. It's huge!

You, Balla, who championed the perf/$ of your 2 generation old SLI setup compared to Tahiti so much that it actually became a joke around here, are now completely on the other side of the fence with Titan.

Replace NV Titan at $900 with the same card called AMD HD8970 and see what happens. I'll tell you what if we see reviews testing 2 to 3-way Titan in SLI, then this entire launch smells like NV flexing its e-Peen ahead of PS4's possible announcement. It's not AMD vs. NV. It's PC gaming vs. next gen console gaming. This smells way bigger than Titan taking the performance crown from the 7970GE. Who was doing GTX680 SLI or Tri-SLI on launch date? NV had shortages of 680s for the first month but Titan is even more scarce. NV would never send reviewers more than 1 Titan card when there is a limited run of just 10K such GPUs unless they have other motives/underlying reasons that are much greater than NV vs. AMD performance crown. :ninja:

 

[rgallant]

No it didn't the 560Ti topped out around 950MHz, the 580 topped around 900MHz. Same with the 570, that's where all the EVGA cards started to pop VRMs.

-my 580's [sli] can run @ 900 for 7/24 if needed but they never pass 40c , can run @ 950 if needed , but I have not hit a game that needs it for only 2560x1440.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

They aren't pointless. You are just missing the point. 7850 to 7970 are the same generation. So, no it's not the same at all. Russian is talking about the generational perf/$ increase being charged for the Titan. It's huge!

The 7970 was more expensive than the 6970 and had a larger chip to match. Add to that it was on an immature process. Everyone went mad then. Titan is not as big, from what we are told, as the 580 and is on a mature 28nm process and the price increase seems to be justified with it's fans.

You, Balla, who championed the perf/$ of your 2 generation old SLI setup compared to Tahiti so much that it actually became a joke around here, are now completely on the other side of the fence with Titan.

Titan is the same generation, lol..............

"Everyone" went mad because it's performance was lackluster at release. 30-20% faster than two year old tech after a full node shrink.

If we keep bring up the 580 for your comparisons, why are we not comparing Titan to the 580? Why are we comparing Titan to the 7970? Does Titan get a year of driver updates as well as newer games price reductions and a refresh before we make this comparison?

I don't know how you're comming to that conclusion. Please locate the post where I said "Wow $900, this card is amazing and totally worth the money!".

-my 580's [sli] can run @ 900 for 7/24 if needed but they never past 40c , can run @ 950 if needed , but I have not hit a game that needs it for only 2560x1440.

Yep, I knew a lot of guys who could hit 950+ on their 580s but I wanted to be a bit more reserved in my numbers.

 

[Keysplayr]

I think your first link was supposed to be: http://forums.anandtech.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=2296980 and can also be accessed by clicking on the number of replies in a thread. It's always interesting to me to see who the most active people are in a thread, like the time keys had way more replies in a thread about AMD drivers than anyone else. :whiste:

What's the tally in this thread brudda? Since you're keeping score and all.

 

[3DVagabond]

Titan is the same generation, lol..............

"Everyone" went mad because it's performance was lackluster at release. 30-20% faster than two year old tech after a full node shrink.

If we keep bring up the 580 for your comparisons, why are we not comparing Titan to the 580? Why are we comparing Titan to the 7970? Does Titan get a year of driver updates as well as newer games price reductions and a refresh before we make this comparison?

I don't know how you're comming to that conclusion. Please locate the post where I said "Wow $900, this card is amazing and totally worth the money!".



Yep, I knew a lot of guys who could hit 950+ on their 580s but I wanted to be a bit more reserved in my numbers.

Again, you are confused. Reread Russian's posts. No point in me trying to explain it to you if you can't understand what he said, like 10 times.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Again, you are confused. Reread Russian's posts. No point in me trying to explain it to you if you can't understand what he said, like 10 times.

I'm confused? But 28nm Kepler is a different generation than 28nm Kepler? :whiste:

 

[rgallant]

Does Titan get a year of driver updates as well as newer games

-that's what I wonder for a while for ten k of one of the kind cards, like in year 2 & 3

 

[RussianSensation]

Yep, I knew a lot of guys who could hit 950+ on their 580s but I wanted to be a bit more reserved in my numbers.

- The 580 also had plenty of time and performance increase from driver updates. Comparing Titan to HD7970's more mature drivers is the same thing.

- Regardless, GTX500 had voltage control. What if to get the power consumption down and clock speeds to 878mhz the Titan has GPU clocks lower than GTX680's 1.175V?

- If you read HardOCP or other forums online, there are comments being made that Titan's GPU Boost isn't even working correctly. What if it has a built in TDP limiter in software like the 680? A lot of 680s perform slower with max OC than a more balanced lower overclock due to how the GPU Boost / TDP are tied on Kepler. This was discussed in great detail when Kepler still launched. If EVGA Precision has +50-75% power increase slider, then it might hit those clocks. We just don't have any info.

I'm confused? But 28nm Kepler is a different generation than 28nm Kepler? :whiste:

It has nothing to do with nodes or generations. It's about Card A being upstaged by Card B at a certain price (looking at its price/performance + OC) and then Card B is being upstaged by Card C at a certain price (looking at their respective price/performance + OC). People complained that Card B offered terrible price/performance over Card A but Card C in this case seems to be even worse, much worse and the same people aren't up in arms. It's not consistent at all. Their cop-out is that Card C is a limited edition run, so it's price is justified. Sounds like a Romney loop-hole to avoid talking about the main topic.

What's the tally in this thread brudda? Since you're keeping score and all.

Since you have 680s in SLI in your sig and not a 690 (or 690x2), I am guessing the limited run of the Titan means you won't get 2 to play with? Could you post benchmarks of Titan vs. 680 SLI if you get a single Titan?

 

[SolMiester]

Its amazing what some people will bring up to discredit a halo card that isn't even released....I dont care what anyone says, but if there isn't externally interested parties at work in this thread, then they would have to be the most die hard fanbois.....perf/$, perf/w scenarios!?, none of which the owner of such a card would care about....

 

[BallaTheFeared]

- The 580 also had plenty of time and performance increase from driver updates. Comparing Titan to HD7970's more mature drivers is the same thing.

No it's really not. Comparing Titan to the 580 is the same thing, comparing 7970 to Titan is tottally different, Titan doesn't get a full node shrink.

- Regardless, GTX500 had voltage control. What if to get the power consumption down and clock speeds to 878mhz the Titan has GPU clocks lower than GTX680's 1.175V?

I'm sure it has lower voltage, the question is what's the max allowed voltage. The 680 has voltage control, it's just limited. The card even overvolts itself based on turbo core clock speeds.

- If you read HardOCP or other forums online, there are comments being made that Titan's GPU Boost isn't even working correctly. What if it has a built in TDP limiter in software like the 680? A lot of 680s perform slower with max OC than a more balanced lower overclock due to how the GPU Boost / TDP are tied on Kepler. This was discussed in great detail when Kepler still launched. If EVGA Precision has +50-75% power increase slider, then it might hit those clocks. We just don't have any info.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens! GF114 didn't have a lower voltage table than GF110, they had the same limit and GF114 because of higher stock clocks typically had higher stock voltage.

 

[3DVagabond]

I'm confused? But 28nm Kepler is a different generation than 28nm Kepler? :whiste:

Yes, you are confused. GK110 is the next gen replacement for GF110. It's not GTX 780. It's not replacing the 680. The 680 was GK104. Guess which chip that was the next gen for?

-that's what I wonder for a while for ten k of one of the kind cards, like in year 2 & 3

Well, if GK104 is any kind of an example...

...nothing dramatic will come from drivers.