GeForce Titan coming end of February

[tviceman]

Die size is being estimated at 513mm^2: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1708214&postcount=900

Smaller than GF100 / GF110 and GT200. Noticeably smaller than the rumored 550mm^2.

Here is a discussion I'd like to have: why the heck did they make this die so big? Why didn't Nvidia just go with a 12 SMX based die, save the space to improve yields and run at higher clocks within a similar TDP, and essentially get the same perfomance?

 

[Jaydip]

Maybe it will be revealed as Gtx 760

 

[wand3r3r]

Agreed.
GTX580 -> 680 (+35-40%) -> Titan (+50-60%). More than 2 years later but a price increase from $499 to $899.

If this is the case, which is appearing more likely, this card will be a failure in my book. The performance would be nice (great), but it's merely a true generational update which should fall in its successors price range.

What a joke. Price/performance will be dismal and probably one of the most overpriced cards to date.

If it's only say 30-40% faster then a 7970 GE (if 50% more than the 680) and costs more than 200% I don't know how the NVidiots will defend this one.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Because higher clocks end to require more power than additional units at lower clocks.

 

[sontin]

Graphics and compute workload is parallel, so more units mean more performance.

Using lower clocks mean with lower voltage decrease the power in a huge way: Linear with lower clocks and ² with lower voltage.

nVidia is one of these few companies which can build such chips.

nVidia is selling GK110 not only in the consumer space but in the Workstation and Tesla business for over $3000.

There is no reason for them not produce these chips.

 

[RussianSensation]

Here is a discussion I'd like to have: why the heck did they make this die so big? Why didn't Nvidia just go with a 12 SMX based die, save the space to improve yields and run at higher clocks within a similar TDP, and essentially get the same perfomance?

K20X with failed/fused off double precision transistors, factory preoverclocked to become gaming cards? Required minimal cost to find 10K of them. Slap on a slick cooler, $900. The R&D on GK110 was already done.

They can't be deaf to feedback and the disappointment enthusiasts had about how locked down GK104 was, especially with a card they are trying to attach such a high premium on.

When NV saw GTX680 Lightning hitting 1350-1400mhz on air, they probably creamed their pants and decided to end this perk quickly. Now a 45-50% Titan at $900 is justifiable against a stock 1058mhz 680. They could lock the voltage on the Titan to make Maxwell parts look better too, and charge $800-1000 for those since a voltage locked Titan would never be able to even come close to them. As long as enthusiasts keep buying NV's voltage locked cards, NV has little incentive to change it. I was hoping the Titan would change it though and just drop the GPU boost entirely. The 837 --> 878 Boost is useless. They should have dropped this altogether for a fixed clock + voltage control.

What a joke. Price/performance will be dismal and probably one of the most overpriced cards to date. If it's only say 30-40% faster then a 7970 GE (if 50% more than the 680) and costs more than 200% I don't know how the NVidiots will defend this one.

It's a Limited Edition, Uber-Special, Benchmarking e-Peen, etc. The price/performance on this part makes HD7970's launch price looks reasonable. At 1180mhz the 7970 is almost 60% faster than the 580 at 1600P. NV is about to bring that level of increase over the 7970Ghz and charge $899 for it, not $549.

 

[boxleitnerb]

To be honest, this Lightning would starve for bandwidth in many cases. I highly doubt you could convert those extra MHz into fps in a directly proportional manner.

 

[Keysplayr]

If this is the case, which is appearing more likely, this card will be a failure in my book. The performance would be nice (great), but it's merely a true generational update which should fall in its successors price range.

What a joke. Price/performance will be dismal and probably one of the most overpriced cards to date.

If it's only say 30-40% faster then a 7970 GE (if 50% more than the 680) and costs more than 200% I don't know how the NVidiots will defend this one.

But you paid a grand for a GTX690. I don't understand your logic in saying price performance would be dismal after you go ahead and buy a GTX690. Unless you got a super deal on the 690. There were plenty of better price/performance options other than a 690. Unless you didn't have an SLI or Xfire mobo. Even 2x680's would have been a better buy at a full 499.00 each with better performance than 690.

 

[sontin]

Yeah, comparing a standard GTX580 to a 27% higher clocked 7970.

Really, you trying so hard to advertise certain products which is not normal...

 

[ShintaiDK]

Die size is being estimated at 513mm^2: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1708214&postcount=900

Smaller than GF100 / GF110 and GT200. Noticeably smaller than the rumored 550mm^2.

Here is a discussion I'd like to have: why the heck did they make this die so big? Why didn't Nvidia just go with a 12 SMX based die, save the space to improve yields and run at higher clocks within a similar TDP, and essentially get the same perfomance?

Yield aint that much affected, when you can just disable parts of it. Plus looking at wafer price, its not that costly to make either.

 

[RussianSensation]

Yeah, comparing a standard GTX580 to a 27% higher clocked 7970.

Really, you trying so hard to advertise certain products which is not normal...

Overclocking is part of the game on the enthusiast forum. HD7970 OC delivered 50-60% more performance over the 580 for a $100 price increase. If the stock Titan is just 50% faster than a 680, it will be just 40% faster than HD7970Ghz at higher resolutions. The Titan OC may be 60% faster than the 1Ghz 7970 for a price hike of $500! The price increase for a similar level of performance HD7970 OC brought over the 580 is much worse.

I am looking forward to Titan's benches at 1600P and in 3-monitor setup on this graph:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/test-17-grafikkarten-im-vergleich/3/

No doubt this car will sell out since even people/students who run Adobe CS6 will want to get this before they enter the professional field and start paying Quadro prices. There will be 10,000 people who will find this card interesting. It doesn't change the idea that it's overpriced way worse than 7970 was. You attacked the 7970's price as crazy overpriced but aren't saying anything of the sort regarding the $900 Titan price.

 

[iMacmatician]

Anyways, the overhyping goes both ways equally. Sliverforce's prophetic appearance here at vc&g with numerous 6970 performance claims that it would be 30% faster than the gtx480 is still fresh in mind.

Don't forget the 1920 SP rumors that were sweeping various places right up until the launch.

 

[Grooveriding]

Is it too optimistic to think that this card will be $600 in the near future? I'd love to pick one of these up, but I would consider $600 toward the limit of what I would spend on a graphics card.

Maybe how many buyers there are like us who think $600 is reasonable for a single GPU but $900 is nutso could have an effect, but I doubt it. They already got us to pay $500 for GK104 and will keep doing that. They're trying to upsell us to $900 for what we paid $500 for in the past. Titan is going to be the worst price/perf card ever released, but after the performance drought imposed by lacklustre 28nm flagships, now a standard node change performance increase is being passed off as worth $900.

 

[sontin]

Overclocking is part of the game on the enthusiast forum. .

And nobody overclocked their GTX580 cards?

 

[RussianSensation]

Maybe how many buyers there are like us who think $600 is reasonable for a single GPU but $900 is nutso could have an effect, but I doubt it. They already got us to pay $500 for GK104 and will keep doing that. They're trying to upsell us to $900 for what we paid $500 for in the past. Titan is going to be the worst price/perf card ever released, but after the performance drought imposed by lacklustre 28nm flagships, now a standard node change performance increase is being passed off as worth $900.

I wouldn't say ever. 6800 UE was really bad and 7800GTX 512MB was pretty bad too. Since a $549 7970 delivered 40% over 6970 with immature drivers and a $499 680 brought 35% over the 580, it's very likely that $499-549 20nm chips will match or come very close to the Titan next year. For GTX680 SLI / 7970GE CF owners to upgrade for real would mean buying two or more Titans. So you have to pay nearly 2 grand with taxes in Canada and then by possibly summer next year risk those GPUs losing 50% of their value once Volcanic Islands and Maxwell come out. :biggrin:

And nobody overclocked their GTX580 cards?

My comparison is apples to apples:

HD7970 OC vs. stock 580
Titan OC vs. stock 7970Ghz.

Price/performance on the Titan is going to be much worse.

Either way you aren't making your case stronger. At 1328mhz the $500 Asus Matrix 7970 is often 30% faster than the 680. If Titan is just 50-60% faster than the 680, and if it is voltage locked, the last thing you'll want to talk bring up are HD7970 OC. That would actually make the Titan's price/performance look even worse.

The Titan's price/performance against an HD7970 OC to 1300mhz+ is not going to be pretty in some games. You'll be paying $900 to barely beat the Asus Matrix in those titles. You aren't exactly making a case for the Titan's superior price/performance here.

And I mean if you really want to get realistic, care to guess what would happen if $1000 Asus Matrix 7970 1330mhz CF / $1000 GTX680 Lightning @ 1400mhz SLI / GTX670 Tri-SLI would do to 1 Titan? They would cream it. What NV is doing here is taking a GTX280/480/580 and raising the price to $900 by making this a Limited Edition card.

 

[boxleitnerb]

Maybe how many buyers there are like us who think $600 is reasonable for a single GPU but $900 is nutso could have an effect, but I doubt it. They already got us to pay $500 for GK104 and will keep doing that. They're trying to upsell us to $900 for what we paid $500 for in the past. Titan is going to be the worst price/perf card ever released, but after the performance drought imposed by lacklustre 28nm flagships, now a standard node change performance increase is being passed off as worth $900.

Do you guys ever think about what will happen to the first 20nm GPUs in this regard? I mean AMD and Nvidia cannot raise prices AGAIN, can they?
If HD9970 and GTX 880 (GM104-ish) only increase performance over the 28nm refresh by 30-40% for the same prices or even higher ones, I'm gonna get mad :twisted:

 

[MrK6]

And nobody overclocked their GTX580 cards?

Yes, let's only overclock nvidia cards in our comparisons. He compared Titan's performance to the 7970 GHz at stock as well.

If Titan is only 40% faster than a 7970GHz then it will be ~10% faster than my card. That's rather laughable considering the price will reportedly be three times higher. Whether or not this card is a joke or not will probably come right down to the wire when we have concrete performance and price numbers. I don't think power usage is going to be terribly out of line as I'd imagine nvidia learned from the backlash over Fermi parts.

 

[f1sherman]

Yield aint that much affected, when you can just disable parts of it. Plus looking at wafer price, its not that costly to make either.

NRE ftw!

Probably it's much better doing everything to return investment in GK110 ASAP, then designing new chip and trying to cut the production cost.

 

[badb0y]

And nobody overclocked their GTX580 cards?

So your trying advocate a GTX 580 at 450$~ over a AMD 7970 at 550$? Because that's exactly what the prices were when the HD 7970 launched.

It wouldn't matter what the GTX 580 overclocked to because it's value was shit compared to the next option regardless. That's not so with the Titan we are talking about a $400-$500 difference here with a performance gap of 40%.

 

[Grooveriding]

Do you guys ever think about what will happen to the first 20nm GPUs in this regard? I mean AMD and Nvidia cannot raise prices AGAIN, can they?
If HD9970 and GTX 880 (GM104-ish) only increase performance over the 28nm refresh by 30-40% for the same prices or even higher ones, I'm gonna get mad :twisted:

Haha, wouldn't surprise me at this rate. A pair of Titans is probably going to be good enough for a 2560x1600 monitor for the next two years or more with the stagnation of game graphics.

Next gen we'll have a single GPU card that is overkill for 2560x1600... and probably cost $1500 :awe:

 

[tviceman]

K20X with failed/fused off double precision transistors, factory preoverclocked to become gaming cards? Required minimal cost to find 10K of them. Slap on a slick cooler, $900. The R&D on GK110 was already done.

There is way more to it than that. If they were to aim for 430-450 mm^2 dies, they can most likely get it to market sooner since the chip would be a little less complex. Getting to market sooner equals more sales. Even if it's maxed out at 12 SMX's, it will be able to run at higher clocks and essentially match (or nearly so) the throughput it has now. Plus, they'd be getting more chips per wafer, lower costs, better yields....

 

[tviceman]

Yes, let's only overclock nvidia cards in our comparisons. He compared Titan's performance to the 7970 GHz at stock as well.

If Titan is only 40% faster than a 7970GHz then it will be ~10% faster than my card.

Or, in your case, lets only overclock AMD cards. Because we all know you're impartial!

 

[sontin]

Yes, let's only overclock nvidia cards in our comparisons. He compared Titan's performance to the 7970 GHz at stock as well.

Sure he did:

The price/performance on this part makes HD7970's launch price looks reasonable. At 1180mhz the 7970 is almost 60% faster than the 580 at 1600P.

 

[tviceman]

Do you guys ever think about what will happen to the first 20nm GPUs in this regard? I mean AMD and Nvidia cannot raise prices AGAIN, can they?
If HD9970 and GTX 880 (GM104-ish) only increase performance over the 28nm refresh by 30-40% for the same prices or even higher ones, I'm gonna get mad :twisted:

If GM104 only improves performance over GK104 by 40% it will be a failure. GK104 is 80-100% faster than than GF114.

 

[OCGuy]

lol..7970GE is a gimmick by AMD to make more money off of people who can't OC by themselves. I was able to get to 1GHZ with no manual voltage increase. Why didnt AMD just sell the original 7970 at a 1ghz clock? It is the same as a EVGA FTWOMGWTF card.....except for some reason it is acceptable to include it against true stock cards.

Anyway it is funny to see the arugments that crop up...performance per watt. Haha. Yet those same people will complain if they can't increase the voltage.....

The people who buy this card will not be worrying about made-up goal posts like performance per watt, and certainly money will not be an issue.