GeForce Titan coming end of February

[Tweak155]

Users here, in droves, thought that the only fair comparison between the 7970 and gtx580 was with the 3gb gtx580. The same people saying Titan is raping your mom and stealing from your pantry are the ones who thought the gtx580 1.5gb vs. 7970 comparisons were invalid.

<SNIP>

I WONDER WHY? Now apparently those same people are shifting goalposts to fit their argument so they can maintain their forum cred and rep.

I wonder why the 7950 doesn't make those charts? Seems they would be good perf/$ ratio?

 

[tviceman]

Also, as I said why would you even talk about $600-700 6GB 7970s? The extra VRAM is worthless. Going from 1.5GB to 3GB was not worthless. That comparison is not even valid. Most of us would take a $799 3GB Titan than a $899 6GB one.

It isn't worthless with triple monitor setups and high amounts of AA. But I regress, back in January 2012 it still wasn't a proper comparison with the gtx580 3gb and hd7970 because gtx580 3gb cards were an outlier, very few were made and thus those that were sold for extraordinarily higher prices. Did Nvidia even release a reference 3gb gtx580? But hey, if the comparisons then were fair and now they're not, then I entirely give up. No since in arguing with people who fit or remove criteria from their arguments to attempt to make their points more valid.

When was the last time either AMD or Nvidia had a product >=35% faster than the competition on the same generation? How well did that go over?

 

[OCGuy]

It seems almost certain there that HD7970GE will remain the fastest single AMD desktop chip until the end of the year.

That is actually bad news for all enthusiasts. The 7970GE is a 7970, which was launched 1/2012 or so? Now the next improvement is looking like Q1 2014 at best?

I was expecting at least a re-fresh....

 

[Tweak155]

That is actually bad news for all enthusiasts. The 7970GE is a 7970, which was launched 1/2012 or so? Now the next improvement is looking like Q1 2014 at best?

I was expecting at least a re-fresh....

Ha... you fixed the date The quote caught the update.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Users here, in droves, thought that the only fair comparison between the 7970 and gtx580 was with the 3gb gtx580. The same people saying Titan is raping your mom and stealing from your pantry are the ones who thought the gtx580 1.5gb vs. 7970 comparisons were invalid.

I WONDER WHY? Now apparently those same people are shifting goalposts to fit their argument so they can maintain their forum cred and rep.

:thumbsup:

 

[tviceman]

GTX 580 1.5 GB was still around $450-$500 when the HD 7970 came out so what exactly does that change? It was still a horrible value compared to the HD 7970 regardless of what SKU specifically you compare.

Hmmm, looks about even to me with the GTX 580 having a slight advantage.

I am glad you can admit to that after saying otherwise.

Where do you think Titan will land on that chart?

Titan will not be a value proposition, I'm not arguing that it will be. My argument is that when the hd7970 came out, people on here justified it's price by comparing it to the relatively rare gtx580 3gb card, which was never mass produced in high quantity. Yet now that Nvidia is releasing a 6gb card, the same people who compared the 3gb gtx580 do not think it's valid or fair to use 6gb 7970GE's to compare with Titan. To me it sounds like people are making up the parameters in which to validate their arguments, and are not at all being objective about the situation.

 

[tviceman]

Does the NDA expire at midnight tonight, tomorrow morning, or tomorrow midnight?

 

[RussianSensation]

Wrong, look at my post above with the graphs.

He is right. I remember telling people to wait for HD7970/GTX680 around November-early December 2011 because rumours started that NV will drop the prices of GTX580 1.5GB to $380 to combat the 7970 before the 680 drops. At that time GTX580 1.5GB were going for $440-450, and many at $500.
http://camelegg.com/product/N82E16814130587

I even made a thread on Dec 1, 2011 discussing 580's rumoured price drop to $380. Here is evidence of GTX580's prices at that time:

"Right now [Dec 1, 2011] the cheapest GTX580 on Newegg is $470 after MIR."
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32648506&postcount=6

PNY GTX580 was one of the lowest priced GTX580 1.5GB cards around December 2011. It was going for $459.99, sometimes with a $20 MIR.
http://camelegg.com/product/N82E16814133360

There were cases where the GTX580 would drop to $399.99 with a $50 rebate, but those were not retail prices on Newegg/Amazon around 7970 launch. They were just random sales like HD7970 last year for $299-320. Those crazy sales on 7970 last year shouldn't be used to discuss HD7970's prices today either.

The 580 3GB version was 550.

I have no idea what price TPU used in their price/performance chart. The $380 rumour for GTX580's price drop was a big deal since that was a $70-80 reduction vs. average 580 prices. You can look it up.

 

[tviceman]

He is right. I remember telling people to wait for HD7970/GTX680 around November-December 2011 because rumours started that NV will drop the prices of GTX580 1.5GB to $380 to combat the 7970 before the 680 drops. At that time GTX580 1.5GB were going for $440-450, and many at $500.
http://camelegg.com/product/N82E16814130587

PNY GTX580 was one of the lowest priced GTX580 1.5GB cards around December 2011. It was going for $459.99, sometimes with a $20 MIR.
http://camelegg.com/product/N82E16814133360

There were cases where the GTX580 would drop to $399.99 but those were not retail prices when 7970 launched. There was just random sales like HD7970 last year for $299-320. Those crazy sales on 7970 last year shouldn't be used to discuss HD7970's prices today either.

The 580 3GB version was 550.

I have no idea what price TPU used in their price/performance chart. The $380 rumour for GTX580's price drop was a big deal since that was a $70-80 reduction vs. average 580 prices. You can look it up.

No, he wasn't right. Techpowerup

looked up the current USD price of each card on the popular online shop Newegg and used it and the relative performance numbers to calculate the Performance per Dollar Index.

That was the price value of the gtx580 1.5gb at the launch of hd7970. On Jan. 30th when the 7950 came out, the graphs were still relatively the same in the value department in the 7970-gtx580 comparison. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7950/29.html

 

[RussianSensation]

No, he wasn't right. Techpowerup

That was the price of the gtx580 1.5gb at the launch of hd7970.

Ya, he was right. He is talking about the general prices of GTX580 cards leading up to HD7970's launch. The day 580 launched, some NV's AIBs dropped the prices of 580, some including $50 rebates, which effectively brought the prices way down on the 580. Before 7970 launched, even 2-3 days before, 580s were going for $440-470. Also, when 7970 launched, its price was not $549 on the Egg. There was initial price gouging with prices going at $569.99-599.99 level in the first week.

Dec 22, 2011.
"Currently, GeForce GTX 580's can be found as low as $469 with rebates." ~ HardOCP

HD7970 OC delivered 40-50% more performance than 580 on launch date for about $150 more. The Titan will bring more performance when OC but it would cost $500 to get there, which still makes it much more overpriced. It will make no difference to the Titan's target market. They'll buy the card at $900, $1,000 or $1,200.

 

[SolMiester]

If you read this thread the comparison was fairly made to $440-450 GTX580 versions not > $500 ones. But as I said 1.5GB --> 3GB actually mattered. 3GB --> 6GB makes no tangible difference.



AMD has been very careful with their words here, but the gist of matters is that the 7900 series will remain the mainstay of AMD&#8217;s enthusiast product line until the end of 2013.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6751/amd-reiterates-2013-gpu-plans-sea-islands-beyond

Sounds like AMD will launch some HD7000 desktop cards, like lower end 384 SP ones or close some gaps in the line-up between 7770 and 7970GE. It seems almost certain there that HD7970GE will remain the fastest single AMD desktop chip until the end of the year.



HD7970 OC. Outperformed the 580 > 35%, paid for itself. The only time in GPU history.

No one is making a claim that high end cards should have amazing price/performance. It's understood that they don't. Again, I think you didn't read the thread in detail to get the context. If the Titan is viewed as a limited edition card, $900, $1000, $1,500, $2,000 are all justified. If the Titan is viewed as a GTX580's real replacement, its $900 price is laughable because that essentially means NV is establishing new price levels of $500 for mid-range chips like GK104/GM104 and $900-$1000 for flagships. See my point now?

If it truly was the replacement, I 1), dont think they would have a limited run for the flagship replacement, 2), wouldnt call it buy a different name, 3) wouldnt have release another GPU prior to it with the 580 replacement name.....So we can now all rest easy knowing the Titan isnt a replacement for the 580, and therefore dont need to worry about the perf/$, perf/w or whatever....Just a very powerful card for the lucky few!

 

[tviceman]

Ya, he was right. He is talking about the general prices of GTX580 cards leading up to HD7970's launch. The day 580 launched, some NV's AIBs dropped the prices of 580, some including $50 rebates, which effectively brought the prices way down on the 580. Before 7970 launched, even 2-3 days before, 580s were going for $440-470. Also, when 7970 launched, its price was not $549 on the Egg. There was initial price gouging with prices going at $569.99-599.99 level in the first week.

Dec 22, 2011.
"Currently, GeForce GTX 580's can be found as low as $469 with rebates." ~ HardOCP

What exactly are you arguing with here? Badboy said very specifically, AND I QUOTE,

It was still a horrible value compared to the HD 7970 regardless of what SKU specifically you compare.

IT refering to the gtx580. And as I showed at two different time periods, both Dec. 22nd before the hd7970 was even available to buy, and Jan 30th's 7950 release, the gtx580 was not a "horrible" value compared to the hd7970.

 

[Grooveriding]

Why is all this crap here about old cards. This is just forum drama. We were all here when 7970 launched and a few select nvidia partials wet their diapers because AMD had the lead and went on about the price endlessly. Now there is silence in the face of a massively overpriced Titan and hypocrisy is getting called out.

There is zero consistency from the die hards in what metrics matter depending on which way the see-saw is bending. Launch thread will be an epic disaster...7970 launch thread with the same arguments being made by the people who took the opposite position then. :ninja:

And maybe five people involved will actually buy one, lol.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Why is all this crap here about old cards. This is just forum drama. We were all here when 7970 launched and a few select nvidia partials wet their diapers because AMD had the lead and went on about the price endlessly. Now there is silence in the face of a massively overpriced Titan and hypocrisy is getting called out.

There is zero consistency from the die hards in what metrics matter depending on which way the see-saw is bending. Launch thread will be an epic disaster...7970 launch thread with the same arguments being made by the people who took the opposite position then. :ninja:

lol Grooveriding, great story.

 

[rgallant]

It isn't worthless with triple monitor setups and high amounts of AA. But I regress, back in January 2012 it still wasn't a proper comparison with the gtx580 3gb and hd7970 because gtx580 3gb cards were an outlier, very few were made and thus those that were sold for extraordinarily higher prices. Did Nvidia even release a reference 3gb gtx580? But hey, if the comparisons then were fair and now they're not, then I entirely give up. No since in arguing with people who fit or remove criteria from their arguments to attempt to make their points more valid.

When was the last time either AMD or Nvidia had a product >=35% faster than the competition on the same generation? How well did that go over?

just saying , no hate for titan but
-@ 10k is the titan a real product if I can't buy 2 in july 2013. more like a paper launch to win back the flag.

 

[RussianSensation]

It isn't worthless with triple monitor setups and high amounts of AA.

Do you have a link to support this? HD7970 6GB vastly outperforming HD7970 3GB with 3 monitors and AA at playable settings? I want to see the Titan deliver playable framerates that are worthy of its $900 price on 3 monitors with AA. HD7970GE outperforms the 680 by 28% already with high amount of AA.

But I regress, back in January 2012 it still wasn't a proper comparison with the gtx580 3gb and hd7970 because gtx580 3gb cards were an outlier

I don't disagree. How is this related to this thread though? The comparison here was fairly made to a 1.5GB $440-450 580.

When was the last time either AMD or Nvidia had a product >=35% faster than the competition on the same generation? How well did that go over?

GTX280 launched at $649. 7 months later GTX285 delivered faster performance at $399, 2 more months after HD4890 delivered GTX280 level of performance at $259. That went terribly for the 280 then. $900 Titan is unlikely to suffer this fate since we know AMD has no counter. I do expect 20nm $499-549 parts to come very close or even best the Titan in 2014.

That is actually bad news for all enthusiasts. The 7970GE is a 7970, which was launched 1/2012 or so? Now the next improvement is looking like Q1 2014 at best?

Yup. AMD may not release anything much better until 20nm kicks in 2014. This is why GTX680/7970 owners have little to upgrade to besides going dual-GPU route or getting the Titan. The only hope rests with GK114 or lower-priced GK110s. Otherwise 2013 is a not an upgrade year for those users.

 

[videogames101]

Why is all this crap here about old cards. This is just forum drama. We were all here when 7970 launched and a few select nvidia partials wet their diapers because AMD had the lead and went on about the price endlessly. Now there is silence in the face of a massively overpriced Titan and hypocrisy is getting called out.

There is zero consistency from the die hards in what metrics matter depending on which way the see-saw is bending. Launch thread will be an epic disaster...7970 launch thread with the same arguments being made by the people who took the opposite position then. :ninja:

And maybe five people involved will actually buy one, lol.

welcome to the internet

:|

 

[RussianSensation]

And maybe five people involved will actually buy one, lol.

I hope AdamAK47 does a 3 Titans vs. Quad-SLI GTX690 comparison and explores CPU bottlenecking too.

--

Is that a chip for controlling voltage on the Titan?

A 680 does not have this.

Looking at the pics more closely, is there even enough room to fit the 6+8 pin power connector fit with a heatsink at rear end of the fan?

 

[SolMiester]

Do you have a link to support this? HD7970 6GB vastly outperforming HD7970 3GB with 3 monitors and AA at playable settings? I want to see the Titan deliver playable framerates that are worthy of its $900 price on 3 monitors with AA. HD7970GE outperforms the 680 by 28% already with high amount of AA.

.

I think we was talking about the 3Gb 580 version being better for surround. Remember it was the perf/$ and comparison of 1.5Gb version v 7970 3Gb

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I'm just glad we're finally seeing a high end 28nm chip, instead of mid-range products launched at $500-$600.

On the plus side, poor sales for AMD have given a proper adjustment to their once inflated launch prices, hopefully this forces Nvidia to do something other than release a single signature series card for a select few people.

The only way we'll see a respectable price on Titan is if AMD can find themselves someplace close to it's performance bracket, which as RS pointed out is highly unlikely.

 

[SolMiester]

I hope AdamAK47 does a 3 Titans vs. Quad-SLI GTX690 comparison and explores CPU bottlenecking too.

wow...mar 2013 for 7xx series?...I see they call the Titan 780 Ti?.....though the perf # dont look much cop...140% of 680?

 

[f1sherman]

Does the NDA expire at midnight tonight, tomorrow morning, or tomorrow midnight?

bump!

 

[SolMiester]

Hey RS, what happen to the chart you embedded?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

bump!

I can see why 3DVagabond was confused, compared to the 7970, Titan does look like a next gen product.

 

[f1sherman]

I can see why 3DVagabond was confused, compared to the 7970, Titan does look like a next gen product.

That's nothing.

Over at Semi there will be bloody murders