Rollo that's your choice to have taken the course of action you did, which was nothing. You don't hear me or any on else criticizing you for rollo-ing over (ha!) but yet, here you are, doing exactly that to people of a different mindset. It's strange because you're not even affected by it and as far as taking it personally (which you and others unequivocally are for some reason) the fight you've chosen is simply idiotic. If you've got that much pent up aggression that you feel the need to vent your angst on a internet forum thread about people being upset by a company's improper conduct than I highly suggest you take up a more constructive crusade like politics or something. It's right up your alley. See you in P&N hopefully.
I'm sueing the bitboys, because their product wasnt delivered "as advertised".
They advertised me a kick ass video card that was to topple all others.
So we need a "bring down the bitboys" thread, and a "lets sue ATI for rollo" thread.
Theres two pointless quests assigned to you, the vocal minority.
They advertised me a kick ass video card that was to topple all others.
So we need a "bring down the bitboys" thread, and a "lets sue ATI for rollo" thread.
Theres two pointless quests assigned to you, the vocal minority.
I'd have to look at when the cards were released, but were Win2K/XP even out when that card was introduced? Did they say for months (even after the card was on the market) that it would work with Win2K/XP and *then* decide not to provide drivers? Was the card unusable with Win98?
Edit:
link describing the Win2K thing in more detail. This appears to be at least not totally ATI's fault; NT was apparently not capable of dealing with a video card with multiple GPUs without special hardware support on the card. I'm not certain they could have reasonably known about this months or years in advance when developing the hardware for the MAXX.
That the vast majority of the cards out there worked perfectly fine at stock?
Again, this is something wrong with the particular card (maybe a number of them, but certainly not all of them).
By a) not delivering the product they promised, then b) continuing to say they *would* deliver the product they promised, and then c) essentially saying 'screw you, it pretty much works and you should be happy with what you have'.
Obviously, many people don't care in the least about WMV decode, potentially better MPEG2 decode, or MPEG/WMV/DivX/whatever encode. That doesn't make the concerns of the people who do care about it (and I would guess there are more than 10) less valid. And a lot more people might care about WMV decode once HD-DVDs start becoming available.
I'm not denying that there have been issues with 1st-gen hardware on both sides (and in fields other than graphics cards) -- but with the 8500s and 9700s, it was clearly a case of some cards being defective, not a design flaw that affected every GPU. Even "hundreds" of people is a very small minority considering the number of these things sold.
jjzelinski- reread, there was much sarcasm "invested" in that post about sueing. I'm saying that its just like you guys who are ridiculously beating this dead horse of an issue.
Ponder this. Think about Nvidia. Realize that we are all pawns in a lifelong game of Everquest, striving for that next carrot in front of your nose..
and realize your own simple, yet irrelevant mortality.
that is all.
Ponder this. Think about Nvidia. Realize that we are all pawns in a lifelong game of Everquest, striving for that next carrot in front of your nose..
and realize your own simple, yet irrelevant mortality.
that is all.
Originally posted by: housecat
Thats what I said they did.. they probably worked on the software for it, found out about 6months after that it didnt work and then "dropped it".
Now, neither I, nor you or anyoen else knows if this is how it went.
But why assume the worst? Why not at least be fair and leave it up for reasonable doubt.
The WORST case scenario, is that Nvidia had AN IDEA that it wouldnt work during the 6months AFTER launch as they were working on the software.. but didnt tell us.
Thats the absolute worst this situation shows on Nvidia's "morality".
And then theres that small fact that there is no morality in business. Find me a moral business.. thats still in business.
Businesses are soley created and designed to turn profits, thats it.
You'd feel the same way about it if you were a major shareholder (5% or more of the company).. I dont really fault them for their actions.. like I said, even if you want to look at this situation "morally"...-
-at WORST CASE SCENARIO on the sequence of events, they simply didnt say anything for 6 months.. but you gotta give them, like anyone deserves, the benefit of the doubt that they really didnt know if it could be fixed.
I suppose if everyone was so hard on you, or anyone for that matter.. that if you got falsely accused of murder, instead of "innocent until proven guilty", it was "guilty until proven innocent".
We dont know how it happened at Nvidia. Its pointless to sit here and bash on them for that.
Its not going to change anything anyway. All final statements about PVP have been released by Nvidia.
So I the only solution, is to fix the silicon yourselves.. since none of the other options given by many in the course of this thread (and two others) do not suit you.
Maybe you can do it better than Nvidia.. since they suck so bad.
I think this is the final post on this issue, without dragging it out into oblivian.
What happened here? Is Nvidia really an "evil" corporation set out to sell us PVP that DOESNT WORK???
We
simply
don't
know
.
No sh1t buddy 
but the two are not comperable. What have you *lost* on account of bitboys?
And thank you for your wise interpreation fo the meaning of life and it's relationship with nvidia.
but the two are not comperable. What have you *lost* on account of bitboys?And thank you for your wise interpreation fo the meaning of life and it's relationship with nvidia.
Because our problem is not with ATi here. If you want to sue ATi that is your business.
Stop the diversion attacks, please.
But for 12 months before that, they swore up and down that it would work. That's a really, really bad way to do business, which is my point. If we did that to our customers, they would never buy from us again.
No... the worst-case is still that they knew (potentially months before launch, when the hardware was frozen) that it didn't work, and they kept saying it would. I'm not sure why you're ruling this possibility out.
And then theres that small fact that there is no morality in business. Find me a moral business.. thats still in business.
Businesses are soley created and designed to turn profits, thats it.
Not an excuse. Plenty of businesses manage to succeed in business while not screwing their customers or using shady marketing.
In which case they should not have been advertising it as a major feature before launch, and after launch should have said "we don't know if it can be fixed", not "everything is fine; it'll be working any day now" until they turned around and said "whoops -- it's borked and will never work on these cards." If I was a major shareholder, I would be pissed, and would be filing a lawsuit right about now over how badly they handled this. As-is I'm just kind of annoyed and disgusted -- and I didn't even buy one of these things.
Reductio ad absurdum. This is not a murder trial, and I did not say that NVIDIA purposefully misled its customers. You must admit that it is possible this happened, though -- and even if they had the best of intentions, they handled the situation very poorly.
So... because NVIDIA has declared this issue over, everyone should ignore it and just be happy that the 3D part of the card works?
HardWarrior
Diamond Member
- Jan 26, 2004
- 4,400
- 23
- 81
Again, why do the actions and emotions of people who feel that they've been cheated affect you so profoundly? Why not just go back to hawking PCI-e video cards to amuse yourself and save the sarcasm for those who can appreciate it? "Dead horse" this subject may be, but it's obviously alive and well for you.
Not really. I didnt do the repost (for the 3rd time). I say, lock this thread. and ban anyone who creates a new one on the subject.
we have a search function. its got all the pertinent answers.
Alright, It appears that a few other trolls also showed up to join the diversion effort.
I guess I am here to offer something actually constructive.
I got this from a Taiwanese forum, and I am not sure if the information is accurate, and that thread starter did give a fair warning. If you already know this, shoot me for not reading all the threads. Kind of hard to keep track in thousands of posts surrounding this issue.
I am not sure if you already know this, but there is a new function called VPEEnable in RivaTuner 2.0
It is located under the third tab "Power User" then choose nVidia Forceware xx.xx W2K System Advanced.
However, there are risks involved. Some say after enabling that, WMV-HD decoder CPU utilization dropped 5~10%. A few reported that they couldn't enter Windows after rebooting, that they had to go into XP Safe Mode to remove Riva Tuner altogether or reinstall Windows (so don't try this unless you've got lots of time) Two rather extreme cases reported permanent hardware damage resulting in a dead videocard. R.I.P.
I am not quite an adventurous person when it comes to something that says permanent hardware damage possible. I will wait for more reports or other sources that either confirm or deny the story.
Good luck to everyone. Yeah, I know my BFG 6800GT /OC is covered by a lifetime warranty, but I am not sure if it covers stuff like this.
I guess I am here to offer something actually constructive.
I got this from a Taiwanese forum, and I am not sure if the information is accurate, and that thread starter did give a fair warning. If you already know this, shoot me for not reading all the threads. Kind of hard to keep track in thousands of posts surrounding this issue.
I am not sure if you already know this, but there is a new function called VPEEnable in RivaTuner 2.0
It is located under the third tab "Power User" then choose nVidia Forceware xx.xx W2K System Advanced.
However, there are risks involved. Some say after enabling that, WMV-HD decoder CPU utilization dropped 5~10%. A few reported that they couldn't enter Windows after rebooting, that they had to go into XP Safe Mode to remove Riva Tuner altogether or reinstall Windows (so don't try this unless you've got lots of time) Two rather extreme cases reported permanent hardware damage resulting in a dead videocard. R.I.P.
I am not quite an adventurous person when it comes to something that says permanent hardware damage possible. I will wait for more reports or other sources that either confirm or deny the story.
Good luck to everyone. Yeah, I know my BFG 6800GT /OC is covered by a lifetime warranty, but I am not sure if it covers stuff like this.
Originally posted by: Matthias99
But for 12 months before that, they swore up and down that it would work. That's a really, really bad way to do business, which is my point. If we did that to our customers, they would never buy from us again.
No... the worst-case is still that they knew (potentially months before launch, when the hardware was frozen) that it didn't work, and they kept saying it would. I'm not sure why you're ruling this possibility out.
And then theres that small fact that there is no morality in business. Find me a moral business.. thats still in business.
Businesses are soley created and designed to turn profits, thats it.
Not an excuse. Plenty of businesses manage to succeed in business while not screwing their customers or using shady marketing.
In which case they should not have been advertising it as a major feature before launch, and after launch should have said "we don't know if it can be fixed", not "everything is fine; it'll be working any day now" until they turned around and said "whoops -- it's borked and will never work on these cards." If I was a major shareholder, I would be pissed, and would be filing a lawsuit right about now over how badly they handled this. As-is I'm just kind of annoyed and disgusted -- and I didn't even buy one of these things.
Reductio ad absurdum. This is not a murder trial, and I did not say that NVIDIA purposefully misled its customers. You must admit that it is possible this happened, though -- and even if they had the best of intentions, they handled the situation very poorly.
So... because NVIDIA has declared this issue over, everyone should ignore it and just be happy that the 3D part of the card works?
Your answers seem feasible. But I really dont understand what your goal is here.
I'm pretty much down with the "5 option plan".. and I wish someone could outline what new is goign to arise from this "3rd" investigation on the subject.
If Nvidia is wrong about their hardware, and a miracle fix is available someday.. create a new thread on it.
It'd be highly much more likely someone checks it, than some 25page beast like this thread is going to be.
This is the ANSWER.
You don't know how much I would like those of you who think the fate of the world hangs on WMV decode to try this- I know there are big laughs waiting for Rollo when you do.
LOL- this is the kind of quality new info I like to see posted on this topic- a hacked workaround that frys cards!
BTW- please don't construe my sarcasm here as a recommendation anyone should try this. The Rivatuner guy does good work, maybe he'll refine the process.
am i the only one who finds this really funny? i mean god, WHAT HD MATERIAL IS THERE TO EVEN WATCH RIGHT NOW? HOW MUCH WILL THERE BE IN 3 YEARS? stop CRYING and get on with your lives...if you are pissed, then go do something about it and stop CLOGGING up the AnandTech forums!!
Do you REALLY think nvidia is just going to say "doh, we are retarded so heres your bigilion dollars back for all of the defective 6800 cards. just send them to us and we will...throw them away and send you.....6600gts?" even if you sued the piss out of them for false advertising, thats not going to give you a working video processor... and good luck with that lawsuit btw
its a fact that nvidia is RETARDED to let something like this happen, LET ALONE let it carry on for 6 months without even saying anything about it! they STILL havent admitted that they lied about the 6800's video processors, and they are never going to!
Do you REALLY think nvidia is just going to say "doh, we are retarded so heres your bigilion dollars back for all of the defective 6800 cards. just send them to us and we will...throw them away and send you.....6600gts?" even if you sued the piss out of them for false advertising, thats not going to give you a working video processor... and good luck with that lawsuit btw
its a fact that nvidia is RETARDED to let something like this happen, LET ALONE let it carry on for 6 months without even saying anything about it! they STILL havent admitted that they lied about the 6800's video processors, and they are never going to!
Whatever. Nvidia has had a string of blunders the last few years and it's not slowing down. Dustbuster "Badge of Honor" anybody? Or how about the benchmark driver cheats? And now the mysterious "advertised-features-disappearing-from-our-cards-without-informing-anybody" trick?
Say whatever you like. But the way a company does business matters to me. I'll pay a few extra dollars or drive a couple extra miles to buy a product from a reputable company or the company that treats me right rather than give it to someone who tries to cover up their blunders or pretends it doesn't even exist.
ATi isnt exactly clean either, though they have been better then Nvidia. ATi has been worse about "paper launches" though, i would say.
nvidias faults in the last few years:
1. Purevideo fiasco (love that word)
2. Paper lauches of 6800gt/ultra PCIe (not impossible, but very hard to find) and Ultra Extreme
3. FX series horrible shader performance, and IQ issues
someone else can add to it
ATI is no den of angels, either. Neither of them seem to be able to get cards out in any decent numbers and they've both had issues over the years. I'm just saying that lately Nvidia seems to be more concerned with PR Damage Control than Product Quality Control. And that's no way to do business.
My goal here is just to point out that the people saying "So what? This isn't a big deal." are missing the bigger picture, which is that NVIDIA was at best ignorant of the state of their own hardware development, and at worst was intentionally misleading their customers. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle, which is not exactly reassuring.
In terms of things that will happen besides discussion? Probably very little. Had I actually purchased one of these cards, I would definitely consider at least *filing* a class-action lawsuit (I don't know how much effort is required to do so), but since I did not buy one before this whole thing became public, I could probably not be part of such a suit.
Also, the "5 option plan" presented above is pretty lacking.
Note that, to me, the point of such a suit would not be to get some sort of monetary compensation or a new video card (which, I admit, is unlikely to happen), but to draw attention to this whole fiasco in a more public forum, and to force NVIDIA to deal with the issue in some way, and hopefully to change their future behavior. At some point, computer hardware companies have to stop making their paying customers unwilling participants in a public beta-testing program.
Except that it's a downgrade in terms of the rest of the functionality of the card (and if going from a 6800GT or Ultra to a 6600GT, it's a pretty significant one).
Part of the issue is that, practically, there is nothing else with the same capabilities out there (at least within a comparable price range). The Plextor product described above only works for MPEG2 decode (not WMV or DivX/MPEG4 or anything else that might be developed). Sure, you could buy a system with a very fast CPU, but that costs even more money, and for an HTPC, it often does other undesirable things, like requiring much noisier cooling -- and still doesn't work all that well for decoding HD video in real time. If there was a simple drop-in hardware solution that did all the same things NVIDIA said their cards would do, this would be much less of an issue.
Not really a very appealing option, I have to admit.
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
Yes the pure video/ VPU is a fault of Nvidias.
Paper launches are becoming more of a problem as technology increases so it is hard to say that is a fault when it is happening to all companies.
Horrible shader performance and poor IQ is not a fault. Nvidia never promised the best of everything, nor did ATI. ATI had there share of downsides to the R3xx series. Yes Nvidias outweighed them but it can hardly be classified as a fault. It is just bad/glaring downside to the NV3x architecture.
This thread needs to end. We aren't even discussing the video processor anymore. It is simply a huge flamefest.
-Kevin
was it ever goign to be anythign else?
like i said, if something new occurs.. like a magical fix. or a lawsuit, or wahtever.. it will be posted in a new thread.. as it should be.
becuase we know theres nothing happening here. and way more people will read a single new thread and single post than some 25 page beast like this, and the two before it became.
like i said, if something new occurs.. like a magical fix. or a lawsuit, or wahtever.. it will be posted in a new thread.. as it should be.
becuase we know theres nothing happening here. and way more people will read a single new thread and single post than some 25 page beast like this, and the two before it became.
HardWarrior
Diamond Member
- Jan 26, 2004
- 4,400
- 23
- 81
Whether this thread is locked, whether those who got burned continue to be angry about it isn't really your call, HC. You're not a moderator, you aren't paying for bandwidth and you can easily ignore this thread and any others like it. The emotional intensity that people like you and Rollo toss into this just mystifies me. I bought a card that plainly stated that it had features that it doesn't have. Why does it bother you so much that I dislike this turn of events that you feel the need to ridicule and otherwise make sport?
I'm sure that you wouldn't want to hear that YOU should just go spin on your thumb if a company punked you and you weren't happy about it. Why not just leave us to "cry and moan and threaten" in peace?
I dont consider my view to be emotional at all. As I've said, I think its the only rational and logical view.
I think that if you want to 'cry/moan/threaten' in peace then why dont you just say that? But you are the only one who has. Because right now, its intended purpose is to "have a central place for this issue", or so stated the OP. Moaning some is OK.. you have a right too.. but dude, its been 3 threads now.
Ridiculous.
Its bordering on Nvidia hatred, three threads out.. and eating bandwidth that you dont pay for as well. Which is prob why (among other things) the other two got locked.
I think that if you want to 'cry/moan/threaten' in peace then why dont you just say that? But you are the only one who has. Because right now, its intended purpose is to "have a central place for this issue", or so stated the OP. Moaning some is OK.. you have a right too.. but dude, its been 3 threads now.
Ridiculous.
Its bordering on Nvidia hatred, three threads out.. and eating bandwidth that you dont pay for as well. Which is prob why (among other things) the other two got locked.
The 6600GT is a decent alternative to a 6800GT if you buy two and SLI, or get on of the two 6600GT cards.
The only thing you trade off is 16X12 4X8X, and as much as some of you seem to care about PVP functionality, I'd think that would be a trade you'd make.
The only thing you trade off is 16X12 4X8X, and as much as some of you seem to care about PVP functionality, I'd think that would be a trade you'd make.
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