Future problem in the country

[jjones]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: jjones

Nothing emotional about my response, just pointing out a simple fact. I'm 48, traveled extensively and have met and interacted with a great deal of people covering a wide spectrum of the social strata, so I'll hazard a guess and say I've a bit more experience than you.

Oh ok, you're a grumpy old man, I get it.

Well, it just seems to me that the wealthy have done quite their share of ruining America as have the poor, perhaps more so. The economic messes, not to mention foreign entanglements, this country has been in have not been the result of the poor, but the rich.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: zinfamous
there is no "poor gene," dumbass.

Hello, dumbass. You are so woefully mislead.

...

But thanks for making yourself look like a fool on a public forum.

Come on guys, you can debate without name calling.

 

[huberm]

you have some flaws in your thinking. Just because someone is poor does not mean they are not as intelligent. It also does not mean they are lazy. Nor does it mean they will grow up and be on welfare.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Hitler already found a solution for this.

A 'final solution'.

The OP would be surprised to hear that he isn't the first person in history to attribute the economic struggles of a society on a particular class or people.

hey, i think you missed the part where the OP pre-empted anyone using the Nazi example as sounding "like a high school kid" 😉

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law

Seriously, relying on that lame tactic doesn't lend any credibility to an argument and is only used to dig up strong emotions instead of what the discussion really needs- rational thinking and reason.

Interesting reading. Check this one out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

Eugenics is just the term given for improving the human race by active genetic screening/manipulation. The term "Eugenics" nowadays usually carries with it a negative connotation and therefore most people think it must be "False" or "wrong".

However it is something which is practiced every day, just in less publicized ways (and they're careful to distance themselves from that term even though it's the same thing) . In much the same way that most people avoid breeding with someone with obvious physical deformities, doctors testing pregnant women for signs of downs (they'll abort the fetus if it has it) or Jewish couples being tested for Tay Sachs, Eugenics sought to improve the human race from a genetic standpoint.

We never abandoned the idea, we just quit using a term whose name was spoiled.

 

[Sumguy]

Idiots sappin' my gene pool!





According to 91TTZ, at least. Meh, hes just fishing for attention.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: huberm
you have some flaws in your thinking. Just because someone is poor does not mean they are not as intelligent. It also does not mean they are lazy. Nor does it mean they will grow up and be on welfare.

Nobody every said that. Just because group x is more likely to do y doesn't necessarily mean that group x always does y or that those that do y are from group x. It only means what was stated.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Sumguy
Idiots sappin' my gene pool!





According to 91TTZ, at least. Meh, hes just fishing for attention.

I've never claimed to be the smartest guy, but seeing most of the responses in this thread helps me understand why I scored above average.

 

[Capt Caveman]

If all poor people have 'poor genes', how do some of them make it out of poverty, go to college, become successful business people, become leader's of our society, etc?

How about creating more opportunities and provide better education to the poor?

Sounds like the OP's mother should have been neutered.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
I was born in a middle class family and was taught to pay attention, learn, stay out of trouble, and work for what I wanted.

The poorest of kids can also be taught. Thats why good public education is so important. Its one of the few things I agree with from the democratic party.


Your argument about genetic selection has some validity, but I think you're applying it wrong. Some of the stupidest people are extremely wealthy. Some of the smartest people who are wealthy, did not start out wealthy, but rather lower middle class who had great business sense and ambitions. So this is not a question of socio-economic status, but rather intelligence and/or instinctive personal productivity.

If we give people of unfortunate socio-economic status an incentive to make as many children as possible as a source of income, who is being smart and who is being stupid? I argue that the reproducers are smart because they know how to use the system, and the bureaucratic givers are stupid because they refuse to address it. So what you're saying is that politicians and the majority of the voters should stop reproducing. 😉

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: txrandom
Poor people have been reproducing more often than the rich since the beginning of time.

True, but the only reason their numbers continually increase over time regardless of conditions is because bleeding hearts thinking that the productive in society need to feed and house those who will not do so for themselves. This removes the natural selection part of genetics and guarantees you will have large populations of people with undesirable traits. The simplest solution is to cut off the welfare flow and let these people either sink or swim. If they are too lazy or stupid to feed the kids they breed then nature will reset the balance.

You can cry all you want and say I am a mean bastard but at the rate things are going someday the government will be unable to sustain its robin hood tactics and this is all going to happen naturally anyway.

91TTZ is the only one I see in this thread that is actually rational while the rest of you are emotional. I love how people always talk about Darwin this and Darwin that but let you apply it to the poor and they get in an upheaval. Wake up. People are animals and deserve no special treatment. Every life is not special, what makes it special is how you live it. If you can't afford to raise kids don't have them. The butthole is a popular destination these days and avoids pregnancy.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
Time to write a modern day "A Modest Proposal"

Does that translate to Mein Kampf in German?

Mein Kampf means "My Struggle". It's an emo-sounding title for one of the earliest emo dictators.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: txrandom
Poor people have been reproducing more often than the rich since the beginning of time.

True, but the only reason their numbers continually increase over time regardless of conditions is because bleeding hearts thinking that the productive in society need to feed and house those who will not do so for themselves. This removes the natural selection part of genetics and guarantees you will have large populations of people with undesirable traits. The simplest solution is to cut off the welfare flow and let these people either sink or swim. If they are too lazy or stupid to feed the kids they breed then nature will reset the balance.

You can cry all you want and say I am a mean bastard but at the rate things are going someday the government will be unable to sustain its robin hood tactics and this is all going to happen naturally anyway.

91TTZ is the only one I see in this thread that is actually rational while the rest of you are emotional. I love how people always talk about Darwin this and Darwin that but let you apply it to the poor and they get in an upheaval. Wake up. People are animals and deserve no special treatment. Every life is not special, what makes it special is how you live it. If you can't afford to raise kids don't have them. The butthole is a popular destination these days and avoids pregnancy.

Thank you.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: txrandom
Poor people have been reproducing more often than the rich since the beginning of time.

True, but the only reason their numbers continually increase over time regardless of conditions is because bleeding hearts thinking that the productive in society need to feed and house those who will not do so for themselves. This removes the natural selection part of genetics and guarantees you will have large populations of people with undesirable traits. The simplest solution is to cut off the welfare flow and let these people either sink or swim. If they are too lazy or stupid to feed the kids they breed then nature will reset the balance.

You can cry all you want and say I am a mean bastard but at the rate things are going someday the government will be unable to sustain its robin hood tactics and this is all going to happen naturally anyway.

91TTZ is the only one I see in this thread that is actually rational while the rest of you are emotional. I love how people always talk about Darwin this and Darwin that but let you apply it to the poor and they get in an upheaval. Wake up. People are animals and deserve no special treatment. Every life is not special, what makes it special is how you live it. If you can't afford to raise kids don't have them. The butthole is a popular destination these days and avoids pregnancy.

You know nothing about a civilized society then.

What do you plan to do with the one's that can't succeed? Just let them die and let the trash people, scoop them off the streets and throw them in the dumpster? We'll also have higher crime rates, time to build more prisons or start killing them.

 

[IEC]

Ah, Social Darwinists are still alive and well I see.

As an individual who grew up far below the poverty level for almost half of his life, I find this thread most amusing. While I agree there are unproductive "leeches" in society, I must protest your incomplete understanding of heredity and genetics.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: irishScott
The poor also die more often than the wealthy. It evens out.

Well, not when we push free healthcare, they actually live quite long. 😛

 

[yllus]

It's a popular sentiment amongst those growing older to consider the present world to be worse than it was in his/her youth. Truth is, people today are smarter, healthier (not to be confused with in shape) and better educated than ever before in human history.

This also ignores the fact that intelligence is an evolutionary survival trait, which is probably about ~50% heritable - accounting for a large amount of how intelligence is determined, but not the entirety. I have little fear for the future on the human race.

Is intelligence inherited or built on experience?

Evidence from family, twin, and adoption studies shows a heritable component in differences in human ability. These studies are also the best evidence that environment plays a large part. Earl Hunt, an eminent researcher on intelligence, says that the heritability of differences in human intelligence lies somewhere between 40% and 80% and that it does not matter a great deal exactly where within this range.

However, there are counterintuitive details in this crude estimate. The heritability of psychometric intelligence rises as we get older and experience the world more. The big slice of variance that the environment provides is largely unconnected with our family upbringing and mostly to do with the environment we experience that is distinct from our parents? efforts and that shared with our siblings. People often assume that genetics must be connected with stability in intelligence and the environment with change. This is not necessarily so. Genes may affect changes in intelligence too.

Pop quiz: Why are IQ test scores rising around the globe?

Twenty-three years ago, an American philosophy professor named James Flynn discovered a remarkable trend: Average IQ scores in every industrialized country on the planet had been increasing steadily for decades. Despite concerns about the dumbing-down of society - the failing schools, the garbage on TV, the decline of reading - the overall population was getting smarter. And the climb has continued, with more recent studies showing that the rate of IQ increase is accelerating.

Next to global warming and Moore's law, the so-called Flynn effect may be the most revealing line on the increasingly crowded chart of modern life - and it's an especially hopeful one. We still have plenty of problems to solve, but at least there's one consolation: Our brains are getting better at problem-solving.

Edit: Forgot to include the second article.

 

[Leros]

Are there more or less jobs for the lower class these days? We no longer have as many factories or industrial jobs since we are outsourcing those, but we have things like fast food and stores.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

What do you plan to do with the one's that can't succeed? Just let them die and let the trash people, scoop them off the streets and throw them in the dumpster? We'll also have higher crime rates, time to build more prisons or start killing them.

While that doesn't sound appealing what are the alternatives? Force them to work? You can't lawfully do that. Make us subsidize their life? That's not fair to anyone else.

In the end, each individual is responsible for their own life. Their success or failure depends on them.

 

[Leros]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

What do you plan to do with the one's that can't succeed? Just let them die and let the trash people, scoop them off the streets and throw them in the dumpster? We'll also have higher crime rates, time to build more prisons or start killing them.

While that doesn't sound appealing what are the alternatives? Force them to work? You can't lawfully do that. Make us subsidize their life? That's not fair to anyone else.

In the end, each individual is responsible for their own life. Their success or failure depends on them.

Rather than forced work. What if there was some kind of government jobs that were always available. No applicatiions, just walk in and work. They could pay less than minimum wage to make them unappealing.

Cut down welfare to where you can only get it for X number of years. After that, they have to work Y number of hours in the government place to get any aid at all.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: yllus
It's a popular sentiment amongst those growing older to consider the present world to be worse than it was in his/her youth. Truth is, people today are smarter, healthier (not to be confused with in shape) and better educated than ever before in human history.

This also ignores the fact that intelligence is an evolutionary survival trait, which is probably about ~50% heritable - accounting for a large amount of how intelligence is determined, but not the entirety. I have little fear for the future on the human race.

Is intelligence inherited or built on experience?

Evidence from family, twin, and adoption studies shows a heritable component in differences in human ability. These studies are also the best evidence that environment plays a large part. Earl Hunt, an eminent researcher on intelligence, says that the heritability of differences in human intelligence lies somewhere between 40% and 80% and that it does not matter a great deal exactly where within this range.

However, there are counterintuitive details in this crude estimate. The heritability of psychometric intelligence rises as we get older and experience the world more. The big slice of variance that the environment provides is largely unconnected with our family upbringing and mostly to do with the environment we experience that is distinct from our parents? efforts and that shared with our siblings. People often assume that genetics must be connected with stability in intelligence and the environment with change. This is not necessarily so. Genes may affect changes in intelligence too.

I'll agree with this.

It also means that those living in the poorest conditions probably have the worst of both worlds- they more likely inherited genes for lesser ability and in addition their environment will be less than optimal.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

What do you plan to do with the one's that can't succeed? Just let them die and let the trash people, scoop them off the streets and throw them in the dumpster? We'll also have higher crime rates, time to build more prisons or start killing them.

While that doesn't sound appealing what are the alternatives? Force them to work? You can't lawfully do that. Make us subsidize their life? That's not fair to anyone else.

In the end, each individual is responsible for their own life. Their success or failure depends on them.

Rather than forced work. What if there was some kind of government jobs that were always available. No applicatiions, just walk in and work. They could pay less than minimum wage to make them unappealing.

Cut down welfare to where you can only get it for X number of years. After that, they have to work Y number of hours in the government place to get any aid at all.

That sounds like a good idea, but I also remember hearing about how the work camps that we had during the depression turned out to be a bad thing, even though it increased employment.

 

[EGGO]

Why is it that everybody complains about providing things like welfare to the people the OP is talking about (I'm going to assume that he's talking about the no-good people, because I have met very decent lower-class people) and then gets emotional when he says that they seem to be like rabbits. China (and I think India) made a limit on how many children you can have, but I think 91TTZ isn't quite talking about overpopulation. And maybe he's not talking about something quite as grand as England exporting their criminals to Australia.

I'm not really a misanthrope, but I understand where he's coming from since I remember how high school was like. I don't live near the ghetto, but we pass by a place that sure seems like it on the way to school and their kids came too. Making no effort to even try to do anything about it, many graduated just above failing and I keep reading from the community news and stories from friends over the shootings that happen there from people my age.

I think, OP, whatever solution will strike a nerve to every emotional person out there, just like abortion, despite it being proven that it helped lower the national crime rate and goes under personal freedom (that last one is my opinion). Try to bite your tongue when these people complain about providing them money or them doing them something dishonest, whatever they do. We get a thread about it a few times a month.

But I'm also torn because coming to this country, we're promised that it's all equal opportunity. Even though they aren't quite trying to seize it, maybe one day they will. May take a long time though.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

What do you plan to do with the one's that can't succeed? Just let them die and let the trash people, scoop them off the streets and throw them in the dumpster? We'll also have higher crime rates, time to build more prisons or start killing them.

While that doesn't sound appealing what are the alternatives? Force them to work? You can't lawfully do that. Make us subsidize their life? That's not fair to anyone else.

In the end, each individual is responsible for their own life. Their success or failure depends on them.

What are the alternatives? Are you this stupid? I thought you had a high IQ.

Like I've already said, create opportunities for people to succeed. Better schools, create job opportunities, better access to health. Yes, you subsidize these efforts as it's part of living in a civilized society that looks out for all of it's people.

You know that there are countries with higher standards of living than the US, right? You do know that they subsidize and create opportunity for their poor, right?

Why don't you cry about how we should abolish prisoners and just kill all of them to save money? Or kill all of the mentally ill or the elderly that need gov't assistance?

How old are you? You sound very naive and ignorant. You know that there individuals that have come out of poverty that have higher IQs than you and have added more to society than you ever will.

You fail at history and science, please do not breed.

 

[tyler811]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
I was thinking how the country seems to be getting dumber each year. It seems that states are looking for more and more ways to extract money from people because the states are spending more than they're bringing in. I was wondering why we seem to be getting more inefficient and I thought about a pretty basic fact: the poor reproduce at a much faster rate than the wealthy.

While people on this board are probably wealthier (or will be wealthier) than the general population, there are masses of complete degenerates that are feeding and breeding at a fast pace. Their kids will inherit the same poor genes and habits that their parents have, and they'll most likely need more assistance than the children of wealthier parents.

What can be done about this problem? It's not politically correct to suggest neutering women that are on welfare tand have 6 kids, but somewhere you have to make the decision that it's just not worth the future hassle of having to deal with this problem.

Another way to look at it is this: a country's productivity leads to its prosperity, and that prosperity is at stake when you have a system that forces the breadwinners to feed the deadbeats and degenerates who either refuse or are too stupid to support themselves. And yet those people are allowed to continue breeding, and the smaller number of offspring of the breadwinners will inevitably have to provide for the larger number of offspring of the poor. This puts a drag on the productivity of the country as whole. A side effect of our current system is that it lets the genes of the unwilling/unable spread at a faster rate than the willing/able, essentially pissing in our gene pool.

Something like this is just to bait people. /thread

 

[videogames101]

1. Intelligence is passed on by genes.
2. People with lower intelligence have a greater chance of being poor.
3. The more offspring any organism produces increases the number of organism in the population that have their genes.
4 The birthrate of the poor is higher then the birthrate of the rich.

These are true statements, no one here can argue with them.

By looking at those 4 statements, we can conclude that, because poor people are more likely to have low intelligence, and they reproduce more, then they're lower intelligence is transferred unto greater portion of the population.

Those are the facts, simple logic and reasoning. If you disagree with any of that, then I'm not going to waste my time debating anything with you.


Now, as more people with lower intelligence are created, is there anything to be done about it? The answer is no. Unless we want to become communists, this is the way the world works. It happens in every country in the world, and we're no exception. To be so arrogant as to think the human population isn't affected by genetics makes be doubt your belief in evolution at all. (and if you don't believe in evolution, GTFO)