First democrat debate

[LegendKiller]

So your solution to build a stronger middle class would be what exactly? Please phrase your answer in a way that doesn't include handouts.

1. Get rid of illegal immigrants who suppress wages and collect social programs. Reform H1B program to severely punish any company caught laying off US workers for H1Bs, or not offering a US worker the job after X period of time, call it 2 years.

2. Get rid of "free trade" agreements that are not 100% bilateral flows without pegged currencies.

3. Slap tariffs on any goods that are not 100% bilateral flow with pegged currencies equivalent to the pegged currency arbitrage amount, adjusting for non bilateral flow.

4. Implement 80% top income bracket for any earnings over $10m/yr.

That's just a start. Call it the Newer Deal if you want.

 

[dank69]

They actually addressed the biggest issues facing the country like inequality, climate change, immigration, education, medical care and provided actual solutions. It was just a more positive vibe to the whole thing. More of a "can do" attitude and willingness to adapt in the face of changing reality instead of clinging to things that didn't even work 20 years ago.

Fixed, but overall I agree. :thumbsup:

 

[dank69]

Free college. More freebies, vote for me. Who will pay for all of those freebies? Don't worry about that, vote for me.

How much is the US debt again? Don't worry about that, just tax the rich, vote for me.

I love how serving the people is characterized as free handouts by conservatives. Free roads? Who is going to pay for them? Goddamn socialists and the free road handouts. Goddamn liberals and their promises of free tuition like many other first-world countries so I don't have to put away $300/month/child for 18 years for their tuition. $600/month for me is no big deal, what's really important is those damn illegals. Goddamn progressives with their promises of paid family leave like almost all other first-world countries, what's really important is abortionplexes and ISIS under my bed and prayer in schools and the ten commandments in courthouses.

 

[Bitek]

Conservatives like to call them handouts because they want to apply shame. What we are really talking about is the fair distribution of the fruits of labor.

There has been a tremendous increase in productivity and wealth in the country, but the way the current distribution model works, workers don't see the same share of the productivity improvement that they used to. Instead much of the wealth we generate through our hard work goes to our bosses. This is not because they are better than us or work harder than us, but the rules of the game have been written by them to do just this.

The trickle down economics experiment has failed, undeniably so. There were always be rich, there always should be rich. But the question is how rich should the rich be allowed to get when they have all the power to exploit those beneath them.

The people should not feel guilty for demanding the wealth that they fairly earned.

 

[sportage]

I can't believe the stark contrast between the two parties AND MORE SO the candidates party vs party.
The republicans are SOOOOO negative.
They hate laws and the US constitution as our concept of freedom.

And Hillary said the most important thing you will hear during this entire presidential campaign.
That the president must be the president OF ALL THE PEOPLE.
That means women that seek an abortion, BECAUSE, that is the law of the land.
And rights of the gay community and marriage equality, again BECAUSE, this is the law of the land.

And president for all the people, including citizens that may not be Christian.
It doesn't matter.
A president can only be president if he/she respects ALL the citizens and ALL of our laws and ALL of our religious divisions.

You will hear nothing more true from any other candidate.

And the republicans?
Negative, divisive, hateful, mean spirited, and they don't want to follow the constitution or our laws of the land.
Except for whatever the NRA tells them to follow.
Republicans running for the office only want to be the head of some elite country club environment where membership is non inclusive and highly screened.

And THIS is why republicans will lose yet another election come November 2016.
Because the American people are not members of some discriminatory country club.
But, just try to tell that to any republican presidential candidate .....

 

[Blackjack200]

I love how serving the people is characterized as free handouts by conservatives. Free roads? Who is going to pay for them? Goddamn socialists and the free road handouts. Goddamn liberals and their promises of free tuition like many other first-world countries so I don't have to put away $300/month/child for 18 years for their tuition. $600/month for me is no big deal, what's really important is those damn illegals. Goddamn progressives with their promises of paid family leave like almost all other first-world countries, what's really important is abortionplexes and ISIS under my bed and prayer in schools and the ten commandments in courthouses.

"'Let's build a $20 billion wall, spend billions a year guarding it so all the actual "undocumented" immigrants can continue flying into airports and overstaying their Visas. Also, lets spend billions to round up and eject 11 million people."

"Lol, how are you going to pay for college and childcare? Lib handouts! Free stuff!"

 

[Bitek]

Second of all, how can conservatives possibly criticize the Democratic plans for spending money when all the big GOP initiatives involve massive tax cuts to the top 1% resulting in deficits easily an order of magnitude higher? From what I heard Democrats at least have a plausible plan for taxation to keep the cost under control.

What the GOP has for pay fors is voodoo, bullshit and rainbows.

Take to real life examples: there was the Bush tax cuts that were supposed to generate revenue and strong economic growth, neither of which happened.
Then there was Obamacare which was supposed to blow up the budget accordingly to the GOP and that did not happen either. So who has the better track record in the plausibility of their ideas?

 

[glenn1]

I love how serving the people is characterized as free handouts by conservatives. Free roads? Who is going to pay for them? Goddamn socialists and the free road handouts. Goddamn liberals and their promises of free tuition like many other first-world countries so I don't have to put away $300/month/child for 18 years for their tuition. $600/month for me is no big deal, what's really important is those damn illegals. Goddamn progressives with their promises of paid family leave like almost all other first-world countries, what's really important is abortionplexes and ISIS under my bed and prayer in schools and the ten commandments in courthouses.

Haven't heard many conservatives opposing roads. And more like instead of putting away $300/month for 18 years, you'll send Uncle Sam $300/month for 80 years (or however long you live). And I'm fine with the paid family leave, I needed to downsize a few positions anyway so thanks for making the decision which one to cut that much easier.

 

[Blackjack200]

Second of all, how can conservatives possibly criticize the Democratic plans for spending money when all the big GOP initiatives involve massive tax cuts to the top 1% resulting in deficits easily an order of magnitude higher? From what I heard Democrats at least have a plausible plan for taxation to keep the cost under control.

What the GOP has for pay fors is voodoo, bullshit and rainbows.

Take to real life examples: there was the Bush tax cuts that were supposed to generate revenue and strong economic growth, neither of which happened.
Then there was Obamacare which was supposed to blow up the budget accordingly to the GOP and that did not happen either. So who has the better track record in the plausibility of their ideas?

They have no credibility with anyone that pays attention. Zero.

 

[FerrelGeek]

They have no credibility with anyone that pays attention. Zero.

Neither side has any credibility wrt spending.

 

[Blackjack200]

Neither side has any credibility wrt spending.

What do you mean?

 

[Jaskalas]

Neither side has any credibility wrt spending.

That's because in our vicious cycle there can be no economic plan except managing the collapse of our country. Our Middle Class needs its purchasing power restored to the 1950-1970s.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Haven't heard many conservatives opposing roads. And more like instead of putting away $300/month for 18 years, you'll send Uncle Sam $300/month for 80 years (or however long you live). And I'm fine with the paid family leave, I needed to downsize a few positions anyway so thanks for making the decision which one to cut that much easier.

If maternity paid leave passes, I can almost guarantee paternity paid leave would be right there with it.

My company already offers it, sooooo yeaaaaah. Hate to give you the bad news :biggrin:

 

[glenn1]

If maternity paid leave passes, I can almost guarantee paternity paid leave would be right there with it.

My company already offers it, sooooo yeaaaaah. Hate to give you the bad news :biggrin:

Business owners likely don't care whether the newly redundant position is held by an expectant mother or impending father-to-be. Fact is that most all employees valuable enough to retain by paid family leave are already voluntarily covered by such a policy from their employer. That's not to say that parenting doesn't fill an incredible social good the country should support, but using the mechanism of your job to do so is stupid. First of all you're only giving benefit to those with jobs, the employer doesn't realize any value from eating the costs of family leave, and since it's a societal benefit then all society should pay for it and not just the employer "because he's a rich guy and can afford it, the cheap bastard."

 

[LegendKiller]

"'Let's build a $20 billion wall, spend billions a year guarding it so all the actual "undocumented" immigrants can continue flying into airports and overstaying their Visas. Also, lets spend billions to round up and eject 11 million people."

"Lol, how are you going to pay for college and childcare? Lib handouts! Free stuff!"

And how much is spent in lost wages from illegal immigrant suppression of wages. How much in social programs? Incarceration? Schooling?

Get rid of birthright and enact harsh penalties (or better yet, enforce existing laws) for overstaying visas and you'll see them leave.


We have had mass deportations before and they weren't expensive. Just give them a choice. Either leave now, freely, or be stuck in a detention center with minimal support for years until you are deported. No work, no money, just basic nutrition.

They will leave freely.

 

[Blackjack200]

Sorry, not getting into that argument. Bottom line is that you want to spend the money kicking immigrents out of an immigrant nation. I would prefer to spend it on education and social programs.

People can make their decisions, and will do so in Nov. '16.

 

[LegendKiller]

Sorry, not getting into that argument. Bottom line is that you want to spend the money kicking immigrents out of an immigrant nation. I would prefer to spend it on education and social programs.

People can make their decisions, and will do so in Nov. '16.

Then they can come here legally, like almost all other immigrants from this immigrant country.

 

[Subyman]

This debate was a breath of fresh air IMO. There was the political shuffle going on, but a lot of the answers had substance to them (not by all.) Especially Bernie Sanders. He didn't hide behind generalizations, he got into the details of bills and gave clear examples.

Hillary and Bernie are the only ones that matter there. Bernie gets beat up too much by the media and a lot of people will tune him out for "socialism" without actually looking at his plans, which is unfortunate.

 

[Subyman]

Then they can come here legally, like almost all other immigrants from this immigrant country.

That is fairy land. We live in a country where illegal immigration is a reality. The way forward isn't to hamstring those folks because they will still come here. Being second class citizens in the US is still 100x better than where they came from. May as well use them to their full potential if they are going to be here instead of creating expensive barriers. I don't how to turn off the tap of illegal immigrants, but making it hard for them in the US is, again, still much better than where they came from.

IMO we need the population boost.

 

[LegendKiller]

That is fairy land. We live in a country where illegal immigration is a reality. The way forward isn't to hamstring those folks because they will still come here. Being second class citizens in the US is still 100x better than where they came from. May as well use them to their full potential if they are going to be here instead of creating expensive barriers. I don't how to turn off the tap of illegal immigrants, but making it hard for them in the US is, again, still much better than where they came from.

IMO we need the population boost.

Sure, we need a population boost, but not at the cost of pauperizing everybody else.

 

[Blackjack200]

That is fairy land. We live in a country where illegal immigration is a reality. The way forward isn't to hamstring those folks because they will still come here. Being second class citizens in the US is still 100x better than where they came from. May as well use them to their full potential if they are going to be here instead of creating expensive barriers. I don't how to turn off the tap of illegal immigrants, but making it hard for them in the US is, again, still much better than where they came from.

IMO we need the population boost.

Dan Carlin made a great point on his podcast. Donald Trump said that when Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. Actually, generally, they are sending their best. The people that come here are the ones determined to make a better life for themselves. If you believe in that enterprising, resourceful people make this country great, you want as many of those people as possible. You want them integrated into your society. You want them getting educated, working, and contributing.

 

[LegendKiller]

Dan Carlin made a great point on his podcast. Donald Trump said that when Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. Actually, generally, they are sending their best. The people that come here are the ones determined to make a better life for themselves. If you believe in that enterprising, resourceful people make this country great, you want as many of those people as possible. You want them integrated into your society. You want them getting educated, working, and contributing.

Great, we can either take the best of the worst, or look to tap better populations.


Here is a key difference. Let us make the decision rather than letting them come over practically unfettered.

 

[sportage]

One thing with Hillary I didn't like, and it is too bad the candidates on stage can not see the TV monitor so they could see this for themselves i.e. how they look and their body language.
When Sanders started hitting Hillary, Hillary cocked her head back and gave this little downward stare back at Sanders.
Body language says it all, and Hillary took on this attitude of superiority and HOW DARE YOU YOU LITTLE WORM when criticized and challenged by Sanders.
Made Hillary look arrogant and dismissive of those she feels beneath her.

But what the hey...
They all take on their own little body language quirks when in front of the camera.
Donald's looks back at his opponents was this same arrogant stare, just without the cocked head.
And that smug look on his face when challenged.

I think an Hillary AND Donald debate would need no words at all.
Just an hour of smug stares and dismissive looks back and forth at each other.
Now, wouldn't THAT be some GREAT debate?

 

[theeedude]

Looks like you focused on the important things.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

It was like he was just repeating everything everyone else was saying along with I'm a politician with experience so trust me.

All I remember from him is climate change.. over and over and over again even when everyone was on a different topic.