First democrat debate

[LegendKiller]

Strawman on a strawman, particularly the whole bit about voting.

Look at CA. Suddenly they may be able to vote.

They think they have some sort of right to be here because they came over an undefended border.

Why do you place so much importance on foreigners than your own countrymen?

 

[ivwshane]

1. Get rid of illegal immigrants who suppress wages and collect social programs. Reform H1B program to severely punish any company caught laying off US workers for H1Bs, or not offering a US worker the job after X period of time, call it 2 years.

2. Get rid of "free trade" agreements that are not 100% bilateral flows without pegged currencies.

3. Slap tariffs on any goods that are not 100% bilateral flow with pegged currencies equivalent to the pegged currency arbitrage amount, adjusting for non bilateral flow.

4. Implement 80% top income bracket for any earnings over $10m/yr.

That's just a start. Call it the Newer Deal if you want.

Thanks for bailing out the other posters:|

Good points but I don't know how realistic 2 & 3 are and I would imagine there would be some negative consequences if they were enacted.

 

[LegendKiller]

Thanks for bailing out the other posters:|

Good points but I don't know how realistic 2 & 3 are and I would imagine there would be some negative consequences if they were enacted.

What are the repercussions if we don't do anything?

 

[cliftonite]

What are the repercussions if we don't do anything?

Agree with all of your points. You would get buy-in from one party on #1 but I don't think either side will do anything with 2, 3, 4.

 

[ivwshane]

You should ask this question of yourself then since it was Senate Democrats who held up passage of the long-term highway funding bill last go around. Maybe Harry Reid can give you an answer to it.

Yes maybe we can ask him:

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/249785-senate-approves-six-year-highway-bill

Looks like repubs will have a chance to redeem themselves.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/house-to-advance-multi-year-highway-bill-next-week/article/2574096

 

[ivwshane]

What are the repercussions if we don't do anything?

Status quo.

 

[glenn1]

Yes maybe we can ask him:

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/249785-senate-approves-six-year-highway-bill

Looks like repubs will have a chance to redeem themselves.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/house-to-advance-multi-year-highway-bill-next-week/article/2574096

So more Democrats voted against it than Republicans despite the former being in the minority (34 total No votes, 15 from Reps means 19 Dem No's). Sounds like Dems also don't want a "clean" spending bill passed but insisted on including an unrelated renewal of the Export-Import Bank. But of course you'll blame Republicans as the problem no matter what, won't you?

 

[LegendKiller]

Status quo.

So keep losing jobs, h1bs flooding in, cheap copies of our products made overseas...etc


Great idea!

I am willing to try something different.

 

[glenn1]

Yes maybe we can ask him:

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/249785-senate-approves-six-year-highway-bill

Looks like repubs will have a chance to redeem themselves.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/house-to-advance-multi-year-highway-bill-next-week/article/2574096

You mean the bill he voted against?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/L...ote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=1&vote=00260

 

[realibrad]

So keep losing jobs, h1bs flooding in, cheap copies of our products made overseas...etc


Great idea!

I am willing to try something different.

Come to the US, where you can better yourself, unless someone here wants the job you apply for, then get the fuck out you damn foreigner.

Its usually the Right that is xenophobic, but the left is working hard to catch up.

 

[Herr Kutz]

Everyone trying to one up each other on taking away constitutional freedoms and raising taxes.

 

[ivwshane]

So keep losing jobs, h1bs flooding in, cheap copies of our products made overseas...etc


Great idea!

I am willing to try something different.

I'm just curious as to what you think my post said about your original bullet points.
You have a habit of talking past people even when they agree with you.

 

[SMOGZINN]

So let's just say "fuck it" and add millions of people for no reason. Just let them come in, take the jobs, just because.

Your argument is invalid. Doing something we know will not work is worse than useless. It is activly spending money on something we already know will fail to fix the problem you state it is intended to fix.

So, what you are really saying is "Fuck it! Let's just piss away a few billion dollars of taxpayer money because I don't know what else to do."

Here is another idea; maybe the immigrants just are not a problem. Perhaps, like every other generation found, that immigrants are actually a boon to our nation. Instead of trying to deport them we should be trying to integrate them into our society and get them paying taxes.

 

[DrPizza]

Talk about absorbing that which you want to believe or associate with...yikes....

If anything I found this debate to be highly negative and overly focused on the Republicans ...the dems worked extra hard to spin and fake folks out with this BS image of a common focus and unity of the party but like I said they eventually will have to stop stroking each other and draw some lines in the sand if one of them wants to stand out.

The good for them is that currently there are only two people in this race on their side, the others were just a joke to make it look like more of a contest.

Is someone paying you to keep coming back to this thread and making irrelevant, idiotic thread craps? If so, they deserve their money back. I hadn't had time to see the debate last night, so I just read through this thread. For the most part, it was like watching a group of friends having a polite conversation at a bar, while some drunken patron keeps trying to interject some nonsense into the discussion.

 

[TheGardener]

I didn't see it either. I just read an op-ed from the NY Post, which has a conservative perspective. John Podhoretz agrees that Clinton did herself a lot of good in the debate, and came out on top.

She clobbered her Democratic challengers and reduced surging rival Bernie Sanders into a handshaking supporting player who defended her on her emails.

http://nypost.com/2015/10/14/biden-needed-hillary-to-stumble-instead-she-finally-shined/

 

[realibrad]

Your argument is invalid. Doing something we know will not work is worse than useless. It is activly spending money on something we already know will fail to fix the problem you state it is intended to fix.

So, what you are really saying is "Fuck it! Let's just piss away a few billion dollars of taxpayer money because I don't know what else to do."

Here is another idea; maybe the immigrants just are not a problem. Perhaps, like every other generation found, that immigrants are actually a boon to our nation. Instead of trying to deport them we should be trying to integrate them into our society and get them paying taxes.

Immigration is only a boon to most everyone else except those who lose or lose out on jobs. When you allow others to apply for a job who might be willing to do the same for less, or more for less, or less for a lot less, there will be unhappy people.

Competition is only good for the vast majority of people. The minority of people who lose out will be very unhappy.

 

[realibrad]

I didn't see it either. I just read an op-ed from the NY Post, which has a conservative perspective. John Podhoretz agrees that Clinton did herself a lot of good in the debate, and came out on top.



http://nypost.com/2015/10/14/biden-needed-hillary-to-stumble-instead-she-finally-shined/

Keep in mind that the writer of that article is a conservative. Hillary is a lot easier to take down vs Bernie. Hillary has a lot more baggage and I would bet you most conservatives want Hillary vs Bernie. That writer may want to pump up Hillary.

 

[kage69]

Is someone paying you to keep coming back to this thread and making irrelevant, idiotic thread craps? If so, they deserve their money back. I hadn't had time to see the debate last night, so I just read through this thread. For the most part, it was like watching a group of friends having a polite conversation at a bar, while some drunken patron keeps trying to interject some nonsense into the discussion.

:biggrin:

This seems to be a pattern for him and a few other incensed trolls here...

 

[kage69]

I love how serving the people is characterized as free handouts by conservatives. Free roads? Who is going to pay for them? Goddamn socialists and the free road handouts. Goddamn liberals and their promises of free tuition like many other first-world countries so I don't have to put away $300/month/child for 18 years for their tuition. $600/month for me is no big deal, what's really important is those damn illegals. Goddamn progressives with their promises of paid family leave like almost all other first-world countries, what's really important is abortionplexes and ISIS under my bed and prayer in schools and the ten commandments in courthouses.

Why do trolls keep repeating the "how are you going to pay for it?" line? If they watched the debate, then they should be aware that taxing market speculations is how Bernie wants to pay for it, as he said.

Gotta love their angst towards education - maybe they're remembering Karl Rove's lament that people with more education are more likely to vote Democrat? When exactly do we get to hear from pro-education repubs? When do they stand up for supporting our country's youth so our country can compete regarding STEM graduates? Not for holy roller colleges with their religilous versions of history, science and biology, I'm talking about real schools.

 

[gothamhunter]

I love how serving the people is characterized as free handouts by conservatives. Free roads? Who is going to pay for them? Goddamn socialists and the free road handouts. Goddamn liberals and their promises of free tuition like many other first-world countries so I don't have to put away $300/month/child for 18 years for their tuition. $600/month for me is no big deal, what's really important is those damn illegals. Goddamn progressives with their promises of paid family leave like almost all other first-world countries, what's really important is abortionplexes and ISIS under my bed and prayer in schools and the ten commandments in courthouses.

You. I like you.

 

[realibrad]

Why do trolls keep repeating the "how are you going to pay for it?" line? If they watched the debate, then they should be aware that taxing market speculations is how Bernie wants to pay for it, as he said.

I have no doubt that some use the line as a way to deflect, but its a very valid question. Our government has a horrible habit of putting things into place and not having a plan to pay for it. It sounds like Bernie has a plan, but its a valid question to ask when something new is purposed.

Gotta love their angst towards education - maybe they're remembering Karl Rove's lament that people with more education are more likely to vote Democrat? When exactly do we get to hear from pro-education repubs? When do they stand up for supporting our country's youth so our country can compete regarding STEM graduates? Not for holy roller colleges with their religilous versions of history, science and biology, I'm talking about real schools.

Again, some may dislike education. I know for me, the issue is that the system we have in place leaves very little accountability. I don't know of anyone who thinks that the system we have no is run effectively or giving outcomes that it should.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

A) Education level is not just degree, but also the institution where you got that degree, and B) Stafford loans are not that big actually. For undergrad they are anywhere from 3500 to 5500 per year and cap out at 23,000 total. That is nowhere near enough to cover the cost of education even at inexpensive state school. For curiosity sake I looked up the rates for University of Illinois, the base rate for residents is $12,036 per year. The Stafford loans for the freshman year only cover about 1/4th of that, and that's before all the fees, books, transportation and living expenses. Anything more and the student either needs significant savings of his own, or he needs to work full time while going to college, which frankly is essentially impossible due to time and logistics constraints, or he needs his parents to co-sign private loans. The situation is even worse with private/ivy league colleges where you need to either be in the top 0.001% to get a full rider or you can't attend since no one will give you loan that high.

So no, the "relatively affordable public colleges" and "student loans" is an incredibly dishonest argument designed to underestimate the severity of the problem. The amount of money your family has absolutely does determine the quality of education that you can get in this country. That is not the way it should be. The school admissions should be based on how smart the student is, not on how much money he can pay into the system.

Using your hypothetical scenario, that still leaves 4 years to make $27000. Between work-study offers, summer jobs, and internships, I don't see that as unaffordable. That doesn't even take into consideration that you're only counting subsidized loans and neglecting the existence of unsubsidized loans, which will cover even more of the difference. Or should no one ever have to bear the torment of personal debt and just be covered by Big Daddy government at all times?

AFAIK, the top private and Ivy League schools will pretty much give you a free ride if you can get accepted and if you have financial issues. Example.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The name of your school is very important and those schools cost a lot more.

So not only does everyone have a right to college, everyone has a right to the BEST college education possible? The name is not that important unless you think everyone has a right to be a big shot Harvard lawyer or politician or stock broker.

 

[nickqt]

they all want to give out more handouts..it's turned into a liberal Santa Claus competition.

Taking a page out of the Oprah handbook....you get some rich white guys money, and you get some rich white guys money....rich white guys money for everyone.

Wow. The stupidity.

Do you two have to take shifts making sure the other doesn't swallow their tongue while sleeping?

 

[Blackjack200]

Or should no one ever have to bear the torment of personal debt and just be covered by Big Daddy government at all times?

So not only does everyone have a right to college, everyone has a right to the BEST college education possible? The name is not that important unless you think everyone has a right to be a big shot Harvard lawyer or politician or stock broker.

You don't know very many stock brokers, do you?