Fatalities at Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, UK

[DrunkenSano]

Well, in my simple opinion, lets stop interfering in the Middle East, and Syria, and Libya, and everywhere else we've stuck our filthy noses, let these people go about their business.

And as far as the few lunatics in our midst, round them up, interview them, and anyone you have evidence of being an extremist put in a high security prison with a council of Muslim elders and see if they can be educated about their ways. There's no point deporting them because they'll just slaughter innocent people (including Muslims) in other countries.

Unfortunately that is the logical solution, there is no solution at all to this problem with extreme Islamic terrorism. The source of the problem is the middle east and the teachings they preach over there, which is to hate the infidels and kill them. Most of the Muslims who have lived in the modern culture and society for a number of years have adapted and enlightened themselves to the correct way of living. Enjoying the freedoms and democracy we have today. The one that still lives back in the sand are still backwards with their culture and hateful teachings, see all the flag burnings and celebration when something happens to the western world. They hate us and it will never change, it hasn't change for thousands of years and it won't change for the next thousands of years.

The only solution is an untenable one, one that people would never get behind and probably impossible. Which is to erase their religion, their society across the sea. That or basically wall them up so they just focus their hate on each other and the different religious teachings over there. These two are impossible solutions, so it is something we just have to stay vigilant about. Withdraw from the Middle East, let them kill each other and focus their hate on each other, just focus our resources here at home. The enlightened Muslims on our side of the border needs to do much more to keep these extremists that no one wants in our country out. Stay vigilant and report, then jail or kill them off here, identify and eliminate the threats as soon as possible.

 

[Crumpet]

Unfortunately that is the logical solution, there is no solution at all to this problem with extreme Islamic terrorism. The source of the problem is the middle east and the teachings they preach over there, which is to hate the infidels and kill them. Most of the Muslims who have lived in the modern culture and society for a number of years have adapted and enlightened themselves to the correct way of living. Enjoying the freedoms and democracy we have today. The one that still lives back in the sand are still backwards with their culture and hateful teachings, see all the flag burnings and celebration when something happens to the western world. They hate us and it will never change, it hasn't change for thousands of years and it won't change for the next thousands of years.

The only solution is an untenable one, one that people would never get behind and probably impossible. Which is to erase their religion, their society across the sea. That or basically wall them up so they just focus their hate on each other and the different religious teachings over there. These two are impossible solutions, so it is something we just have to stay vigilant about. Withdraw from the Middle East, let them kill each other and focus their hate on each other, just focus our resources here at home. The enlightened Muslims on our side of the border needs to do much more to keep these extremists that no one wants in our country out. Stay vigilant and report, then jail or kill them off here, identify and eliminate the threats as soon as possible.

I'm not sure that calling for a mass genocide is ever called for... Um.. I would say you need help.

I do not disagree that a reasonable portion of people in the middle east despise us, and, well for good reason to be fair, we do keep blowing them up and have done so for over 70 years, and there's a high possibility that even if we completely pulled out now they'd continue loathing us for several future generations.

But you reap what you sew.

 

[R0H1T]

Unfortunately that is the logical solution, there is no solution at all to this problem with extreme Islamic terrorism. The source of the problem is the middle east and the teachings they preach over there, which is to hate the infidels and kill them. Most of the Muslims who have lived in the modern culture and society for a number of years have adapted and enlightened themselves to the correct way of living. Enjoying the freedoms and democracy we have today. The one that still lives back in the sand are still backwards with their culture and hateful teachings, see all the flag burnings and celebration when something happens to the western world. They hate us and it will never change, it hasn't change for thousands of years and it won't change for the next thousands of years.

The only solution is an untenable one, one that people would never get behind and probably impossible. Which is to erase their religion, their society across the sea. That or basically wall them up so they just focus their hate on each other and the different religious teachings over there. These two are impossible solutions, so it is something we just have to stay vigilant about. Withdraw from the Middle East, let them kill each other and focus their hate on each other, just focus our resources here at home. The enlightened Muslims on our side of the border needs to do much more to keep these extremists that no one wants in our country out. Stay vigilant and report, then jail or kill them off here, identify and eliminate the threats as soon as possible.

Tbh that isn't restricted to middle east preachers anyone, I've seen "educated" Muslims on other sites defend some form of violence or the other in response to the West meddling in their affairs. Of course they don't defend the lynching & blowing oneself up kind of a thing, but the argument goes something along the lines of ~ this is what you get for sticking your nose in our affairs!

Also for a vast majority of Muslims it's Islam first, then the country or whatever else they have on their priority list. Too many of them seem to think that Islam (their religion) is under siege, especially in the west.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Hitler was an atheist.

Yet, there was so much to point out that the nazis too were seeking answers in mythology and the mystic world.
Every human being has a tendency to be fascinated to what might exist beyond what our senses can detect and what our brain can reconstruct with respect to our awareness of the environment.
Does not matter if you are religious or not.
Maybe this will be genetically lost when we develop better senses which cover more of the em spectrum. It would be better for humanity.

 

[Crumpet]

Too many of them seem to think that Islam (their religion) is under siege, especially in the west.

You trying to say that it isn't?

It absolutely is in the US and UK.

I mean I thoroughly despise ALL religion, but Islam is most certainly under attack.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Still, i mentioned it in the past before. If extremists are not taken out and away from life, they will only wait until they get their chance.
It is inside these people. Medication or psychiatry is not going to help. Religion or no religion is not the issue. They made the choice of acting as they do. Using whatever they can to confirm their twisted thoughts feeding their evil minds.

 

[Crumpet]

Still, i mentioned it in the past before. If extremists are not taken out and away from life, they will only wait until they get their chance.
It is inside these people. Medication or psychiatry is not going to help. Religion or no religion is not the issue. They made the choice of acting as they do. Using whatever they can to confirm their twisted thoughts feeding their evil minds.

Question is how do you separate the extremists from the not?

They don't exactly make it easy by wearing an all white suit and a pointy hat.

 

[R0H1T]

You trying to say that it isn't?

It absolutely is in the US and UK.

I mean I thoroughly despise ALL religion, but Islam is most certainly under attack.

So you're saying that "Islam" is under attack, explain how?

I get that people in the West are increasingly getting frustrated with Muslims & how they don't address extremism & extremist ideology by some preachers. Now extending that train of thought to infer that attack on some Muslims, or Muslim nations, is a siege on their religion is absurd.

A large number of Muslims are conservative by nature, even in the west, to ask them to assimilate into the society in a more meaningful way, or keeping religion inside their homes is not a bad advise. Forcing them to abandon their religious beliefs is bad though, but even then I don't see where or how they've been forced to do so.

 

[Crumpet]

So you're saying that "Islam" is under attack, explain how?

I get that people in the West are increasing getting frustrated with Muslims & how they don't address extremism & extremist ideology by some preachers. Now extending that train of thought to infer that attack on some Muslims, or Muslim nations, is a siege on their religion is absurd.

A large number of Muslims are conservative by nature, even in the west, to ask them to assimilate into the society in a more meaningful way, or keeping religion inside their homes is not a bad advise. Forcing them to abandon their religious beliefs is bad though, but even then I don't see where or how they've been forced to do so.

Islamophobia and hate crimes against them are through the roof, and have been through the roof since UKIP and Trump did their thing.

To deny that would either be blind, or labeling yourself as one of the haters.

 

[R0H1T]

Islamophobia and hate crimes against them are through the roof, and have been through the roof since UKIP and Trump did their thing.

To deny that would either be blind, or labeling yourself as one of the haters.

It's in proportion to the increased number of attacks, especially in Europe & to deny that would be equally absurd.

At this point in time, it's simply "you first" ~ that's what both sides are waiting for. Who'll take the first (backwards) step, the west getting out of middle east OR some of the Muslims taking their extremist brethren to task & reforming a large part of their tightly knit global community?

None are wrong per se, in their persecution complex, but one is more right than the other. I guess the west must decide how long they can perpetuate the myth that middle east can be fixed, or Muslims can be fixed?

 

[Commodus]

I'm not sure that calling for a mass genocide is ever called for... Um.. I would say you need help.

I do not disagree that a reasonable portion of people in the middle east despise us, and, well for good reason to be fair, we do keep blowing them up and have done so for over 70 years, and there's a high possibility that even if we completely pulled out now they'd continue loathing us for several future generations.

But you reap what you sew.

The sad thing is that DrunkenSano is really just saying what many anti-Islam people think... they desperately want those horrific policies, they just don't want to acknowledge it because they know most people would find the ideas revolting.

The hard reality, as I see it: while we should certainly fight terrorism, we have to accept a certain amount of risk if we're going to be decent human beings. Most Muslims are peaceful, even if you believe their views are sometimes overly restrictive. It's just plain wrong to punish millions of innocent families because there's a chance that a handful might produce terrorists.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Question is how do you separate the extremists from the not?

They don't exactly make it easy by wearing an all white suit and a pointy hat.

I know, that will be our next cold war race.
I guess...
Terahertz waves and more research like that.

 

[Crumpet]

I guess the west must decide how long they can perpetuate the myth that middle east can be fixed, or Muslims can be fixed?

You are sounding dangerously Islamophobic.

 

[R0H1T]

You are sounding dangerously Islamophobic.

How so, I'm not from the "west" nor do I support the Muslim persecution complex, that often times is their riposte when asked to reform their culture.

 

[Crumpet]

How so, I'm not from the "west" nor do I support the Muslim persecution complex, that often times is their riposte when asked to reform their culture?

Asking a religion to reform their culture will always be seen as an attack.

I imagine you'd get a similar reaction if we asked Christians to stop following the word of God.

I'd love it if Catholics would accept sexual relations out of wedlock, contraception, abortions and peoples of non-hetero sexualities, but I don't see them in a hurry to modernise their ways.

 

[DrunkenSano]

I'm not sure that calling for a mass genocide is ever called for... Um.. I would say you need help.

I do not disagree that a reasonable portion of people in the middle east despise us, and, well for good reason to be fair, we do keep blowing them up and have done so for over 70 years, and there's a high possibility that even if we completely pulled out now they'd continue loathing us for several future generations.

But you reap what you sew.

I never called for mass genocide, as I said, it is an impossible option.

 

[R0H1T]

Asking a religion to reform their culture will always be seen as an attack.

I imagine you'd get a similar reaction if we asked Christians to stop following the word of God.

I'd love it if Catholics would accept sexual relations out of wedlock, contraception, abortions and peoples of non-hetero sexualities, but I don't see them in a hurry to modernise their ways.

Yeah the word of God, funny how well educated people can have beliefs contradictory to scientific theories playing out in full force in front of their very eyes.

God says what He wants to say. There are no contradictions in Quran. He only speaks truth. Atheists can say whatever they want, free will. Everyone will know the truth once he/she leaves this world.

That is not to say that someone is preaching hate by being conservative, but when you don't oppose or check the ultra conservatives from carrying out God's will, I suppose that can be misconstrued as an attack on that religion?

 

[DrunkenSano]

The sad thing is that DrunkenSano is really just saying what many anti-Islam people think... they desperately want those horrific policies, they just don't want to acknowledge it because they know most people would find the ideas revolting.

Glad you can read minds! 🙂

I'm just stating the facts, that is all. I have nothing against Muslims, Christians, Taoists, Atheists , etc, just the extremists in each religion/non-religion. But keep making stuff up if it makes you feel better or more self-righteous.

 

[Crumpet]

Glad you can read minds! 🙂

I'm just stating the facts, that is all. I have nothing against Muslims, Christians, Taoists, Atheists , etc, just the extremists in each religion/non-religion. But keep making stuff up if it makes you feel better or more self-righteous.

And the facts are that the only solution is to kill them all.

I'm sure that's EXACTLY the kind of thinking that ISIS extremists are thinking as they blow up a crowd of children.

 

[DrunkenSano]

And the facts are that the only solution is to kill them all.

I'm sure that's EXACTLY the kind of thinking that ISIS extremists are thinking as they blow up a crowd of children.

Then do you have a solution that can change the way they are teaching things overseas? About hating infidels, blowing up women and children? And I don't mean infidels as in just Americans. They blow up their own people, kill their own people, stone their own people just as easily. Christianity is no model citizen but even you must have seen that the religion has changed from the dark ages and have embraced the modern values of life. Muslims in the US have also embraced the modern values of life. In the Middle East, it's definitely a lot more archaic and from my point of view, it isn't changing anytime soon. So there are two solutions, get rid of them, or basically isolate them. Don't interfere with them at all but you can't let them infiltrate into modern society as they want to do harm to it.

Edit add:

And just saw this news article which pretty much affirms the difference between those coming from the Middle East and those that are already integrated into the modernized world:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40096753
German police have arrested a teenage asylum seeker suspected of planning a suicide attack in Berlin.

 

[Crumpet]

Then do you have a solution that can change the way they are teaching things overseas? About hating infidels, blowing up women and children? And I don't mean infidels as in just Americans. They blow up their own people, kill their own people, stone their own people just as easily. Christianity is no model citizen but even you must have seen that the religion has changed from the dark ages and have embraced the modern values of life. Muslims in the US have also embraced the modern values of life. In the Middle East, it's definitely a lot more archaic and from my point of view, it isn't changing anytime soon. So there are two solutions, get rid of them, or basically isolate them. Don't interfere with them at all but you can't let them infiltrate into modern society as they want to do harm to it.

Edit add:

And just saw this news article which pretty much affirms the difference between those coming from the Middle East and those that are already integrated into the modernized world:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40096753
German police have arrested a teenage asylum seeker suspected of planning a suicide attack in Berlin.

Well the last 2 "refugees" that were committing terrorist acts in Europe ended up being a German army general and his mate.

My solution is simple, pull UK and US troops out of the ISIS war and focus on defending our countries.

Stop selling weapons to Saudi Arabia who are confirmed to be directly supporting ISIS (last I checked $11Billion from US and $3.1Billion UK sold just this year alone)

Keep our noses out of it.

 

[Commodus]

Glad you can read minds! 🙂

I'm just stating the facts, that is all. I have nothing against Muslims, Christians, Taoists, Atheists , etc, just the extremists in each religion/non-religion. But keep making stuff up if it makes you feel better or more self-righteous.

I wasn't saying that you were islamophobic, as you described the idea as "untenable..." just that islamophobes tend to harbor that Heart of Darkness-style "exterminate all the brutes" mentality. They'll maintain a gentle front, but it's obvious that they'd only be truly happy if they never saw another Muslim in their life.

 

[Crumpet]

I wasn't saying that you were islamophobic, as you described the idea as "untenable..." just that islamophobes tend to harbor that Heart of Darkness-style "exterminate all the brutes" mentality. They'll maintain a gentle front, but it's obvious that they'd only be truly happy if they never saw another Muslim in their life.

I'd be deeply unhappy if I never saw another muslim in my life, my greengrocer is a muslim, the bloke who I buy my rice off is muslim, the guys who own my local hardware shop are muslim..

 

[William Gaatjes]

snip...

Religion has an appeal to the hateful, mentally ill and irrational. It's an excellent vehicle to use in indoctrinating and creating a terrorist out of someone with those qualities. Some of the ideas represented by Jihad and the Paradise promise are certainly good themes of propaganda to use in trying to exploit someone. How many out of 1.7 billion are realistically terrorists or going to be ? 1000 ? 10,000 ? 100,000 ? Even if it were 100,000, going after the rights of the other 1,699,900,000 won't improve things. We had some far right whackjob kill 6 Muslims here not too long ago, there were no calls to go after the far right for their ideology. It doesn't make sense to go after all the people who label themselves the same way when only very few act out dysfunctional and dangerous behaviour they believe this label justifies. They need to root out and deal with the terrorist organizations and the people recruiting and turning others fanatical. The religion is the exploit, but the payload being delivered to the terrorists via the exploit is something else, and requires an individual with a disgusting mind ready to receive it.

I agree with this. Religion is a tool to let small groups of individuals to unite and form a large single entity that cooperates at every front instead of fighting each other as man has done for so long (think tribes in the past). But every individual should be free to make that choice of becoming religous and should not be condemned if not. But extremists are no different than violent hooligans who seeks pleasure in hurting others. They will always find an excuse to feed their frenzy minds.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Remember the Sturmabteilung and how they acted.