EVGA: "DX11 done right, Nsist on nVidia"

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Marketing isn't about honesty or accuracy, it's about convincing you to give them your money.

> Also, its not like nvidia DX11 is better then ATI DX11...

It is if they pay developers enough to detect and downgrade the rendering for ATI cards.
 

epidemis

Senior member
Jun 6, 2007
794
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It's almost as if the writer guns for a guiness record in inserting the biggest amount of marketting bullshit in the shortest amount of space
 

Barfo

Lifer
Jan 4, 2005
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Well, if Tessellation has a bigger performance hit in Radeons than it does in Geforces I'd say that yes, Nvidia DX11 is better than ATI's.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
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Well, if Tessellation has a bigger performance hit in Radeons than it does in Geforces I'd say that yes, Nvidia DX11 is better than ATI's.

that is interesting... and AFAIK tessellation is the biggest feature of DX11 over DX10...
Does it actually perform better on nvidia cards?
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
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that is interesting... and AFAIK tessellation is the biggest feature of DX11 over DX10...
Does it actually perform better on nvidia cards?

Where have you been for the past months? nVIDIA from day one has been harping about its superior tessellation performance against the competition. However it remains to be seen if this performance advantage translates into real world performance increase in games. I guess for nVIDIA, tessellation wont be much of a bottleneck.

There was a review from computerbase.de on DX11 performance. Here it is. The GTX480 is 47% faster in DX11 apps than the HD5870. However this is using old drivers, and I havent seen any other benchmark sites that really looked into DX11 performance between the two.
 

Dark Shroud

Golden Member
Mar 26, 2010
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Tessellation performance is the only tangable advantage nVidia has over ATI at the moment. It used to be a weak point for them since ATI has had tessellation for years. MS set strict standards for DX 11 so tessellation was one of few options.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,697
397
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Apparently NVIDIA is faster with tessellation.

The problem is that performance gain is seen in Haven benchmark and Metro 2033. Only.

In AVP and Dirt2 things seem quite balanced.

So the GTX 4X0 performs much better in tessellation is coming from 2 (?) instances of games with tessellation.

Is that conclusive enough? Or representative of what future (from the ground) DX11 games will be like?
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
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The funny thing is by the time that performance improvement becomes apparent-in more than 1 title-the next generation will be upon us. There have been cards like this in the past, 6800, 2900xt etc.....
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,003
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Tessellation is the new SSAO – a massive performance hit for little visible benefit during gaming. Tessellation is far too slow in AvP 3 on my GTX470, so I have it disabled.
 

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
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www.mfenn.com
The funny thing is by the time that performance improvement becomes apparent-in more than 1 title-the next generation will be upon us. There have been cards like this in the past, 6800, 2900xt etc.....

This.

I imagine that ATI will dump their fixed-function tessellator in their next major architecture revision, as it just makes sense to treat it as a shader program with some extra hardware support.
 

CitanUzuki

Senior member
Jan 8, 2009
464
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What do you expect? DX11 done late/hot? They have a product to sell, its advertising, who cares?
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
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The cards are not selling well, can't blame evga for trying to move stock :)

Where do you get your information from? WHere does it say that gtx cards are not selling well?
You have a link?
I'd like to see the reputable source you got this information from.

If not then your PR spin is no better then EVGA's. :rolleyes:
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
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Last edited:

Mistwalker

Senior member
Feb 9, 2007
343
0
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The cards are not selling well, can't blame evga for trying to move stock :)
Pretty much this.

Oh , thats right I forgot about Damien from Behardware. :) :rolleyes:
Major player in the graphics industry that he is and all. :rolleyes:
You asked a question, and were answered. If you disagree or find the source less than reputable, feel free to post something supporting your stance.

Mabe I'll get my brother to write an article on how ATI cards are not selling well?
Would you believe him?
Or better yet Rollo, he will write one.
And this was edited in to accomplish what exactly?
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
4
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Where do you get your information from? WHere does it say that gtx cards are not selling well?
You have a link?
I'd like to see the reputable source you got this information from.

If not then your PR spin is no better then EVGA's. :rolleyes:

Chiiiill winston, just relax, take a bex and lie down. No need to get so hot & heavy, if you disagree, rather than flying off the handle, refute the man with some good old fashioned proof.

It helps keep the temperature down in here too, and makes it a nicer place :)
 

postmortemIA

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2006
7,721
40
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nvidia simply has moved focus from real game enthusiasts to wannabe gaming enthusiasts.

many companies do so: bose, monster cable, etc.
 

Schmide

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2002
5,728
1,019
126
Seriously BeHardware isn't exactly a random quote, they've been around and get some juicy tidbits.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,697
397
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Tessellation is the new SSAO – a massive performance hit for little visible benefit during gaming. Tessellation is far too slow in AvP 3 on my GTX470, so I have it disabled.

Can you please clarify me something.

Isn't tessellation supposed to add a performance boost by adding detail to simple textures, so bandwidth and memory could be saved, as opposed to now where you have massive textures being loaded in the GPU memory?

And this would of course make game development faster/cheaper?

Instead tessellation is adding minor detail on top of already high detail resolutions for a huge performance hit and minor visual improvement?
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,697
397
126
Where do you get your information from? WHere does it say that gtx cards are not selling well?
You have a link?
I'd like to see the reputable source you got this information from.

If not then your PR spin is no better then EVGA's. :rolleyes:

Well Fuad is saying GF100 is cancelled http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/19233/1/ . Hardly what someone would do to a successful product.

Of course Fuad also believed in Fermi in 2009 so...
 

Sylvanas

Diamond Member
Jan 20, 2004
3,752
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Can you please clarify me something.

Isn't tessellation supposed to add a performance boost by adding detail to simple textures, so bandwidth and memory could be saved, as opposed to now where you have massive textures being loaded in the GPU memory?

Tesselation is nothing to do with 'textures' per say, but it can be used to replace 2D sprites (which are currently just simple textures- e.g. trees in the distance in a game like Farcry). How it accomplishes this is that all objects in a game are treated as geometry so there is no need for sprites that represent objects in the distance. Take the tree example from above. Currently in games, when you look at say a tree in the far distance near the horizon, it's actually just a little 2D image (of a few pixels+ polygons) that looks like a tree, but as your character walks closer, it becomes bigger and changes from being a 2D image to something that is a 3D object that has geometry and can be represented in a wireframe. An artist in a development studio has to spend time making all sorts of models for that same tree, the 'close up' version, the 'far away' version and the 'I can hardly see it in the distance' version. Once your character is standing next to that tree it may consist of millions of polygons and high resolution textures, and to think- it started out as that little small 2D sprite.

This situation works out well, as a small 2D image (sprite), takes up little space and does not require much computing time at all. The trade off here is that it lacks complexity an thus, does not look as good as a tree in the distance should do. This is why you cannot use MSAA on things like chain link fences and distant buildings in the horizon, because MSAA takes samples from the physical geometry of an object, but these sprites are just textures so thus, cannot benefit from AA. However, we now have Transparency AA, the new CSAA which implements Alpha to coverage and Jittered sampling for shadows, which all mean that we can sample that chain link fence to help alleviate any aliasing.

Now to Tesselation (probably took too long to get to this bit lol). What Tessellation will hopefully bring to us in the future is a world where everything is treated as an object with geometry. Remember that tree in the distance I love talking about? Tesselation would allow the artist to make 1 tree only and then scale it up and down (via the use of displacement maps). What I mean by 'scaling up and down' is that if you were standing right next to the tree, it would indeed consist of millions of polygons with lots of detail. Now if our game character were to walk away from the tree, it would get smaller, this is 'scaling down'. Same tree that the artist only made 1 copy of, but it's size and geometry are being sclaed down on the fly by the GPU (as we dont need to waste time rending a super high detail tree if we're so far away we can hardly see it at all, so a less detail but sill accurate representation of the original will suffice.) This way, MSAA could still be applied accurately to the object, so views at distance would look better, the artist saves development time and money by only making one copy of a an object and we get an all round better, more detailed object.

You probably knew most of this but this is for the benefit of those out there who may not have come across an explanation. At the moment, Tesselation is not being used like this at all, it's as you say in your example- taking a high res object and just making it 'more rounded' at the expense of alot of GPU power. Undoubtedly, Nvidia's architecture is highly parallel and it's geometry pipeline is magnitudes better than ATI's fixed function block but I think it'll be a few years yet before we have GPU's capable of doing 'real' Tessellation with a smaller performance hit so we don't all have to be playing at 30fps the rest of our lives.