EVGA: "DX11 done right, Nsist on nVidia"

[Hauk]

I propose the creation of a single, ongoing thread titled "General nVidia Bashing."

 

[dug777]

I propose the creation of a single, ongoing thread titled "General nVidia Bashing."

I'm weeping green crocodile tears with you, buddy

Seriously, it's a pretty low line in advertising, although it is so non-specific that am sure that their lawyers have crawled all over it to ensure it's not actually misleading or deceptive.

Advertising is indeed a funny game, but nvidia are good at it generally, and ATi are generally not good at it

This time, I am sure it is nVidia sanctioned, and I am equally sure they'll sell a few cards out of it, so kudos to them I guess...

 

[rolodomo]

Are you guys reading the same press release article I am? They're just selling tessellation. Whey they claim they're doing DX11 right, that does not imply ATI is doing DX11 wrong. Here's a life tip: life is too short to go around reading between the lines in order to take insult from every piece of pedestrian sales literature.

Regarding the BEHardware article, I don't know whether to believe it or my lying eyes. For example:

all partners agree that AMD is unable to supply enough Radeon HD 5800s, which is creating a lot of difficulties.

That's not true, the 5800(s) are widely availalbe (in the U.S.). AMD is able to supply enough 5800(s).

On the other hand and in contrast to what the rumour was telling us, the GeForce GTX 400s are widely available

But the 5800 is "widely available," I call johnny bull.

 

[Madcatatlas]

idd, lifes too short to care about this kind of crap marketing

and another thing, i cant for the life of me, understand why some of you are actually giving them credit for it.

 

[faxon]

Oh , thats right I forgot about Damien from Behardware.
Major player in the graphics industry that he is and all.

Mabe I'll get my brother to write an article on how ATI cards are not selling well?
Would you believe him?
Or better yet Rollo, he will write one.

right from the horses mouth here guys! we received 3 dozen 480 and 470 cards between the manufacturers we stocked @ launch @ the frys i work at. thus far we have only sold maybe 8 cards total. by comparison we still cant even get 5870s in stock consistently because they sell out so fast, we got a shipment of XFX 5870s (8 of them) last week and they were gone in 3 days. there's news all over the net saying that fermi isnt selling well, many sites have been running articles on it. if you want to ignore it then people are just going to laugh and call you a moron, but it's the truth :awe:. apparently retail stores are still having a hard time getting units because at the rate they move, its in AMD's best interest to ship as much stock to online stores as possible. doesnt help that fry's buyers are kind of slack as well and apparently have no idea why were not moving high end stock even when the only thing on the shelf is fermi for over a month

 

[rolodomo]

apparently retail stores are still having a hard time getting units because at the rate they move, its in AMD's best interest to ship as much stock to online stores as possible. doesnt help that fry's buyers are kind of slack as well and apparently have no idea why were not moving high end stock even when the only thing on the shelf is fermi for over a month

If by "online stores" you mean, for example, Newegg, neither the 5870 nor the 480 is a top seller. Not by a long shot.

EDIT: I having problems linking to the Newegg list, but here's a link to Amazon, which shows the same pattern: http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1276973...,n:193870011,n:284822,k:pcie&sort=pmrank-ddi2

Similar to a pattern I noticed two weeks ago, the real champ seems to be the 5770 with last generation ATI and NVIDIA products getting honorable mention. The 5870(s) and 480(s) round out the bottom of the list, but they seem roughly equivalent in sales.

Are you seeing the 5770 far outpace everything else at your store?

 

[faxon]

I would say so yea, we have a different one on sale or MIR ever other week. Te last two weeks we have had biostar OEM 5770 1GB cards going for $150 with a $20 MIR, and XFX 5770 on sale for $160 when it lists for $190 usually

 

[happy medium]

I would say so yea, we have a different one on sale or MIR ever other week. Te last two weeks we have had biostar OEM 5770 1GB cards going for $150 with a $20 MIR, and XFX 5770 on sale for $160 when it lists for $190 usually

And that make sense. There is no competition in that market yet.
Thats what the gf 104 chip (gt 460) is for.

 

[railven]

http://www.behardware.com/news/11010/computex-radeons-geforces-and-availability.html

From the thread right below this one, convenient that you missed it.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]This is also the reason for which some decided to transform, via a different bios, some Geforce GTX 470s into GeForce GTX 465s, taking on all the costs of the operation themselves as they have paid NVIDIA the price of the GeForce GTX 470 (of the card or just the GPU) and NVIDIA haven’t put any compensation system into place. This is probably why Asus has discreetly allowed a tool to filter onto the market that is reported to allow you to remodify your GeForce GTX 465 into a GeForce GTX 470, so as to highlight the solution, justify higher pricing and limit or even avoid the losses linked to the operation. We will moreover check these mods asap to see if they really work.

How likely is this to be true? Imagine that, unlocking a GTX 465 to a full GTX 470 because it was originally a GTX 470.

Why would a partner devalue their product that they paid more for to sell it for less? Are they finding it really hard to move their units?
[/FONT]

 

[happy medium]

How likely is this to be true? Imagine that, unlocking a GTX 465 to a full GTX 470 because it was originally a GTX 470.

Why would a partner devalue their product that they paid more for to sell it for less? Are they finding it really hard to move their units?
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

No there is a new chip to take its spot in 3 weeks (gt460). and another gf 104 with the full 384 sp's after that. Well thats the rumor anyway.

 

[Leyawiin]

Seriously, it's a pretty low line in advertising, although it is so non-specific that am sure that their lawyers have crawled all over it to ensure it's not actually misleading or deceptive.

Jesus - its advertising. What do you want EVGA to say - "well the general consensus in hardware forums is Nvidia GTX 400 cards suck, but please buy them anyway (cause we're nice and have a good warranty)". They're trying to move cards, just like Chrysler's trying to move cars (even though they aren't Hondas). If you read the print its actually a fairly informative ad page. Its up to the consumer to investigate and weigh the pluses and minuses just like when purchasing any product.

 

[cbn]

Tessellation is the new SSAO – a massive performance hit for little visible benefit during gaming. Tessellation is far too slow in AvP 3 on my GTX470, so I have it disabled.

Tessellation doesn't sound very worthwhile at the moment. What do you think will happen to it in the future?

 

[Scali]

Tessellation doesn't sound very worthwhile at the moment. What do you think will happen to it in the future?

Tessellation has worked wonders for Pixar ever since Toy Story 1.

 

[cbn]

Tessellation has worked wonders for Pixar ever since Toy Story 1.

But what about gaming?

What kind of programming possibilities could we be looking at with respect to both changing hardware requirements and displays (OLED, etc).

 

[Grooveriding]

http://www.behardware.com/news/11010/computex-radeons-geforces-and-availability.html

From the thread right below this one, convenient that you missed it.

Yeah no doubt. Don't even need to hear it from the industry. Common sense and stock availability pointed to this a month ago.

There is no denying even from NV that their new chips had low yields. Yet within two weeks of their retail availability date they were in stock and available from every vendor, at every online shop and B&M retailers, and have been ever since. In the past, with the 280 release and 8800 GTX release, stock was scarce much like it was with the 5870 and 5850 at their release, not the case this time.

They're not selling well, likely because they were released seven months after 5850/5870 and only the 480 offered a performance gain, and it was a small one. It's hard to make a case to upgrade to a 480 from a 5870.

Not much marketshare was left to nvidia, they released much too late and came with one part that offered nothing more performance wise and another part that offered just a bit more performance. With both offering plenty of heat, power usage and a bigger pricetag.

 

[dug777]

Jesus - its advertising. What do you want EVGA to say - "well the general consensus in hardware forums is Nvidia GTX 400 cards suck, but please buy them anyway (cause we're nice and have a good warranty)". They're trying to move cards, just like Chrysler's trying to move cars (even though they aren't Hondas). If you read the print its actually a fairly informative ad page. Its up to the consumer to investigate and weigh the pluses and minuses just like when purchasing any product.

Jesus, stop whining already!

Next time, leave the rest of my comment in where I explicitly state that it's advertising and note that it's funny game

 

[Ashkael]

It's a particular type of advertising!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PolishTheTurd

 

[MrK6]

Oh , thats right I forgot about Damien from Behardware.
Major player in the graphics industry that he is and all.

Mabe I'll get my brother to write an article on how ATI cards are not selling well?
Would you believe him?
Or better yet Rollo, he will write one.

Those Green Ear Plugs(TM) must be pretty awesome.

right from the horses mouth here guys! we received 3 dozen 480 and 470 cards between the manufacturers we stocked @ launch @ the frys i work at. thus far we have only sold maybe 8 cards total. by comparison we still cant even get 5870s in stock consistently because they sell out so fast, we got a shipment of XFX 5870s (8 of them) last week and they were gone in 3 days. there's news all over the net saying that fermi isnt selling well, many sites have been running articles on it. if you want to ignore it then people are just going to laugh and call you a moron, but it's the truth :awe:. apparently retail stores are still having a hard time getting units because at the rate they move, its in AMD's best interest to ship as much stock to online stores as possible. doesnt help that fry's buyers are kind of slack as well and apparently have no idea why were not moving high end stock even when the only thing on the shelf is fermi for over a month

Thanks for relating your firsthand experience. I can't say I'm surprised, although it's interesting to see that even in retail, where customers aren't the most savvy, NVIDIA brand-name recognition isn't helping much.

Yeah no doubt. Don't even need to hear it from the industry. Common sense and stock availability pointed to this a month ago.

There is no denying even from NV that their new chips had low yields. Yet within two weeks of their retail availability date they were in stock and available from every vendor, at every online shop and B&M retailers, and have been ever since. In the past, with the 280 release and 8800 GTX release, stock was scarce much like it was with the 5870 and 5850 at their release, not the case this time.

They're not selling well, likely because they were released seven months after 5850/5870 and only the 480 offered a performance gain, and it was a small one. It's hard to make a case to upgrade to a 480 from a 5870.

Not much marketshare was left to nvidia, they released much too late and came with one part that offered nothing more performance wise and another part that offered just a bit more performance. With both offering plenty of heat, power usage and a bigger pricetag.

But you're using logic to defend your point, we can't have any of that here in the Video Card forum. :awe:

How likely is this to be true? Imagine that, unlocking a GTX 465 to a full GTX 470 because it was originally a GTX 470.

Why would a partner devalue their product that they paid more for to sell it for less? Are they finding it really hard to move their units?

Quite possibly actually, if my assumptions on their business model is correct. Basically, the GTX 465 is a sink for GF100 chips that were too broken to function as a GTX480 or a GTX470. This could be for any number of reasons (couldn't handle speeds at appropriate voltages, too many nonfunctional shaders, defects, etc.). If they can still sell the card at $250, that's $250 they didn't have before. Remember that the chips are already made and are a sunk cost. I also believe it's cheaper to make these cards on a GTX470 PCB, since it's probably cheaper to make one type of PCB in large quantities. My guess is you'll have to wait and see what people report as to which manufacturers are putting out software moddable GTX465's. Remember, however, that they're 465's for a reason, and you might have to run them at higher voltages, lower frequencies, and/or with better cooling once "unlocked."

 

[Scali]

But what about gaming?

Obviously gaming will evolve to similar technologies as used in offline rendering such as used by Pixar. It's been evolving that way for years now, adopting many Pixar RenderMan features such as programmable shading and shadowmapping.
So yes, I would say tessellation is inevitable. It will give more detail, better antialiasing and it makes animation more efficient (you can animate the control points BEFORE tessellation, rather than the polygon soup AFTER tessellation).
But then I'm talking about NURBS and such, not just displacement mapping, which most games/benchmarks seem to be using as 'tessellation' at this point.

 

[Shmee]

Ya, I work at the same frys, and we have tons of 400 series cards. We recently got a few more xfx 5870's, as well as some diamond 5850's. We do have some good sales on the evga 465 vanilla and SC, with a rebate as well.

But ya, we sell lots of 5770's.

 

[Qbah]

"DX11 Done Right" and "Proof is in the video" and they include PhysX. This is misleading IMO - PhysX is not part of DX11 (unlike Tessellation, which is next to it on EVGA's Web site).

Oh well, marketing bullsh!t at its finest.

 

[Scali]

Oh well, marketing bullsh!t at its finest.

Nah, it can get worse than that.
Some companies advertise with accelerated physics without even having an actual product supporting it at all!

 

[Qbah]

Nah, it can get worse than that.
Some companies advertise with accelerated physics without even having an actual product supporting it at all!

Links?

 

[Scali]

Links?

OMG you didn't just seriously ask me to prove this... Time to crawl from under your rock.
Try googling for things like: ATi physics X1900 Havok OpenCL

Edit: Here you go, found some of the original ATi marketing material still online: http://ads.hardocp.com/Asymmetric_Physics_Processing_with_ATI_CrossFire.zip
Yup, back in 2006 ATi was advertising accelerated physics. Where is it?

 

[Qbah]

OMG you didn't just seriously ask me to prove this... Time to crawl from under your rock.
Try googling for things like: ATi physics X1900 Havok OpenCL

Edit: Here you go, found some of the original ATi marketing material still online: http://ads.hardocp.com/Asymmetric_Physics_Processing_with_ATI_CrossFire.zip
Yup, back in 2006 ATi was advertising accelerated physics. Where is it?

So... the technology is there, nobody uses it though (for whatever reason). How is it in any way similar to suggesting PhysX is part of DX11?

ATi was touting DX10.1 with their previous generation cards as a selling point (another PR BS btw). There were no games using it though. But you didn't see ATi (or any of their partners) putting DX10.1 advanced features and their tessellator in one line trying to suggest it's part of this DX. Why? Because it's misleading - especially in the way EVGA does it in the first link. You obviously want to promote all features your card offers (why include them otherwise?), but in a clear way. I'm not saying promoting PhysX is bad. It's a technology nVidia supports and develops. But writing: DX11 done right - best performance, tessellation, PhysX - this is misleading.