EVE online

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: JRich

Originally posted by: Truenofan
"Again, building a ship is not skill. Loading ammuntion is not skill. Clicking orbit and letting the best ship for the situation win is not skill. Winning because youve been paying for the game longer than your oppenent is not skill either. You dont seem to understand the concept that any jackass can build a ship with an hour or so of research."

you my friend, are an idiot, he stated, "The game isn't as easy as clicking a module and and firing, you need to know about transversal velocity for turrets, explosion velocity for missiles and a wide variety of others. There are specializations for new people to go into so they can compete with vets and there are many different ways to approach the game. " and go ahed, tell me the ship, modules you'd use and i'll give you a ship that will beat it. and neither ship can be faction or t2. no t2 modules either.

READ what the fuck he says before you say something. transversal velocity, if your turrets are too slow they wont hit if the other ship is moving and your moving, sometimes you have to stop in order to hit them, if they don't have the right tracking size, they wont hit, ship size is very dependant in the game as well as turrets. having super large turrets wont hit a frigate, and having extremely small turrets, wont do that much damage to a big ship then there's optimal range, you can do damage far away, and you can do damage up to a point in close range, but there's a recommended range for you to fire your guns for the maximum amount of damage as well. missiles are a bit different, no optimum range or minimum, but there is a maximum and a small ship can outrun the blast velocity of a missile if the ship is moving fast enough, while a large ship gets hit hard with a larger missile because it takes in all the blast damage too. hitting orbit in a pvp fight in 0.0 space, is death, you WILL lose your ship out there, end of story. you have to know how to pilot your ship otherwise your never going to make it out of below 0.2 sec(you should either be in a shuttle or in a large group if your doing anything in case you get gate jumped.

Acanthus(i dub thee ADD boy) i can tell you didn't play the game at all and you went right back to WoW because you obviously don't understand even the basics of combat in this game. Eve online is very unforgiving to new people playing, read the online players guide and learn the basics off of that as well. there's a tutorial for when you first start it up, its rather long and rather boring, but it teaches you the basics on how to play. learning the rest is up to you. if you need help playing pm me and I'll help you out best i can in game. i enjoy it because its different than requiring you to play to level up, you can have the most skill points in game, and still blow ass if you don't know how to play or what your doing.(BTW, i have a tad over 9mil SP which is not that great i will say) a pvp battle is not about orbit and shooting, but shooting npc rats(real pirates are pirates, not rats) is about orbit and fire. i've been in a few wars and i have NEVER used orbit and activate method when firing upon anyone.

:thumbsup: I'm a railgun whore so I have to watch the transversal velocity of my targets which means NO ORBITING

I'm a missile user so I don't even have to care. HA! 100% Accuracy owns all.

 

[JRich]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: JRich

Originally posted by: Truenofan
"Again, building a ship is not skill. Loading ammuntion is not skill. Clicking orbit and letting the best ship for the situation win is not skill. Winning because youve been paying for the game longer than your oppenent is not skill either. You dont seem to understand the concept that any jackass can build a ship with an hour or so of research."

you my friend, are an idiot, he stated, "The game isn't as easy as clicking a module and and firing, you need to know about transversal velocity for turrets, explosion velocity for missiles and a wide variety of others. There are specializations for new people to go into so they can compete with vets and there are many different ways to approach the game. " and go ahed, tell me the ship, modules you'd use and i'll give you a ship that will beat it. and neither ship can be faction or t2. no t2 modules either.

READ what the fuck he says before you say something. transversal velocity, if your turrets are too slow they wont hit if the other ship is moving and your moving, sometimes you have to stop in order to hit them, if they don't have the right tracking size, they wont hit, ship size is very dependant in the game as well as turrets. having super large turrets wont hit a frigate, and having extremely small turrets, wont do that much damage to a big ship then there's optimal range, you can do damage far away, and you can do damage up to a point in close range, but there's a recommended range for you to fire your guns for the maximum amount of damage as well. missiles are a bit different, no optimum range or minimum, but there is a maximum and a small ship can outrun the blast velocity of a missile if the ship is moving fast enough, while a large ship gets hit hard with a larger missile because it takes in all the blast damage too. hitting orbit in a pvp fight in 0.0 space, is death, you WILL lose your ship out there, end of story. you have to know how to pilot your ship otherwise your never going to make it out of below 0.2 sec(you should either be in a shuttle or in a large group if your doing anything in case you get gate jumped.

Acanthus(i dub thee ADD boy) i can tell you didn't play the game at all and you went right back to WoW because you obviously don't understand even the basics of combat in this game. Eve online is very unforgiving to new people playing, read the online players guide and learn the basics off of that as well. there's a tutorial for when you first start it up, its rather long and rather boring, but it teaches you the basics on how to play. learning the rest is up to you. if you need help playing pm me and I'll help you out best i can in game. i enjoy it because its different than requiring you to play to level up, you can have the most skill points in game, and still blow ass if you don't know how to play or what your doing.(BTW, i have a tad over 9mil SP which is not that great i will say) a pvp battle is not about orbit and shooting, but shooting npc rats(real pirates are pirates, not rats) is about orbit and fire. i've been in a few wars and i have NEVER used orbit and activate method when firing upon anyone.

:thumbsup: I'm a railgun whore so I have to watch the transversal velocity of my targets which means NO ORBITING

I'm a missile user so I don't even have to care. HA! 100% Accuracy owns all.

That's why the wife drives the Drake

 

[Praxis1452]

when I start the trial any suggestions on what race I should choose?

 

[imported_Truenofan]

tenshodo13, just pm me and i'll give it to you, i dont want to put it out because people will start spamming me on eve alone. praxis, it all depends on what you want to do, each race in the beginning has its pluses and negatives, i picked gallente, i didnt know what i was doing at the time but i love my guy now because he's a combat guy and he's quite good at it at that. me being only 9mil sp and i'm already going into t2 stuff is pretty good. pm me for any method of contacting me as well. gallente are drones/rails/blasters/armor tanks, minmatar are projectile/speed, amarr are laser/armor/weak(sarcasm here, they've been nurfing amarr for a long time for some reason), and caldari are ecm/missle/sheilds. over time you can always go to another race's ships as well. and thank you for the QFTW

edit: i have a main thats combat, and my alt thats going to be mining/production, anyone wants to know about these items, im going to go pirate when i get back to the states from here. programs like evemon also help, and if your running vista, game runs fine in it, a PLUS to running vista, go to the gadgets page and look for the eve online gadget, it shows your character, isk, skill your learning, and how much time is left, i have two of em running and they're great.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
"Again, building a ship is not skill. Loading ammuntion is not skill. Clicking orbit and letting the best ship for the situation win is not skill. Winning because youve been paying for the game longer than your oppenent is not skill either. You dont seem to understand the concept that any jackass can build a ship with an hour or so of research."

you my friend, are an idiot, he stated, "The game isn't as easy as clicking a module and and firing, you need to know about transversal velocity for turrets, explosion velocity for missiles and a wide variety of others. There are specializations for new people to go into so they can compete with vets and there are many different ways to approach the game. " and go ahed, tell me the ship, modules you'd use and i'll give you a ship that will beat it. and neither ship can be faction or t2. no t2 modules either.

READ what the fuck he says before you say something. transversal velocity, if your turrets are too slow they wont hit if the other ship is moving and your moving, sometimes you have to stop in order to hit them, if they don't have the right tracking size, they wont hit, ship size is very dependant in the game as well as turrets. having super large turrets wont hit a frigate, and having extremely small turrets, wont do that much damage to a big ship then there's optimal range, you can do damage far away, and you can do damage up to a point in close range, but there's a recommended range for you to fire your guns for the maximum amount of damage as well. missiles are a bit different, no optimum range or minimum, but there is a maximum and a small ship can outrun the blast velocity of a missile if the ship is moving fast enough, while a large ship gets hit hard with a larger missile because it takes in all the blast damage too. hitting orbit in a pvp fight in 0.0 space, is death, you WILL lose your ship out there, end of story. you have to know how to pilot your ship otherwise your never going to make it out of below 0.2 sec(you should either be in a shuttle or in a large group if your doing anything in case you get gate jumped.

Acanthus(i dub thee ADD boy) i can tell you didn't play the game at all and you went right back to WoW because you obviously don't understand even the basics of combat in this game. Eve online is very unforgiving to new people playing, read the online players guide and learn the basics off of that as well. there's a tutorial for when you first start it up, its rather long and rather boring, but it teaches you the basics on how to play. learning the rest is up to you. if you need help playing pm me and I'll help you out best i can in game. i enjoy it because its different than requiring you to play to level up, you can have the most skill points in game, and still blow ass if you don't know how to play or what your doing.(BTW, i have a tad over 9mil SP which is not that great i will say) a pvp battle is not about orbit and shooting, but shooting npc rats(real pirates are pirates, not rats) is about orbit and fire. i've been in a few wars and i have NEVER used orbit and activate method when firing upon anyone.

Actually youve got me all wrong, ive played pretty much every MMO ever released, and played EVE for 5 months.

I know all about the combat system, thank you for putting "know your optimal range" into 2 large paragraphs and inserting some personal attacks.

Warp => Orbit at optimal/Keep at range => click weapons => click repairs on and off periodically => hope to win.

No amount of cramming fanboi data into paragraphs can change one dimensional and outright slow paced combat into something that takes actual skill.

Building a ship and knowing game mechanics =/= skill.

And as ive said before (in this thread you clearly didnt read) WoW is one of the worst combat systems ever conceived... 2nd only to EVE.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

well then, like i challenged you, build a ship, with no T2 ships, No T2 fittings, and No faction ships or fittings, and i bet i can build a ship that will beat yours. just off of base, no skills included into reducing or increasing anything. building a ship does require skill, and does require you to think about what you might encouter in the game, you cant fight everything with only one fitting of a ship, you may encouter a drone user, then encounter a ECW ship, or you might find a sniper, or a blaster boat. each require a different fitting to counter it. and you said that building a ship didnt require skill did you not? your now saying that its knowing the mechanics equal to skill, why did you change what your stating. 5 months isnt even enough time to get used to the game, i was getting into mining and a few other things by then, once you hit over a year, when your character is getting REALLY good, then you can learn how to go into low sec, and learn PVP, as i said PVP is not orbit and fire, you CANNOT orbit and fire, otherwise you will be dead. if you did this you would know this.

And only at the end did i give you one personal attack, anything else was just a statement of truth to the game, if you had played long enough to venture into below .2 sec space, you would understand this as well. you probably barely had 4-5mil in sp, barely getting a good fitting into ships, you might have ventured into something in lower sec, gotten owned at a gate camp like so many do, got pissed because you lost a very expensive ship you couldnt replace because you didn't insure it, and left the game.

edit: you also probly built a craptastic character, were'nt earning nearly enough SP in a month and decided to quit as well. in a given month you should earn at least a million sp. i have also never been in a real PVP fight where i turned my armor reps on and off, they stayed on because of how much damage i was taking. another point.

 

[Michael]

praxis1452 - If you plan on fighting at all (and it'll happen almost for sure), you'll spend a lot of time trianing skills that have Perception as the main. So I would make sure that you choose a comination that gives you a decent Perception score. Otherwise it does not much matter. For mission running, Caldari tend to have better ships. My character is Gallente and that race has decent ships as well.

Myrdin

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
well then, like i challenged you, build a ship, with no T2 ships, No T2 fittings, and No faction ships or fittings, and i bet i can build a ship that will beat yours. just off of base, no skills included into reducing or increasing anything. building a ship does require skill, and does require you to think about what you might encouter in the game, you cant fight everything with only one fitting of a ship, you may encouter a drone user, then encounter a ECW ship, or you might find a sniper, or a blaster boat. each require a different fitting to counter it. and you said that building a ship didnt require skill did you not? your now saying that its knowing the mechanics equal to skill, why did you change what your stating. 5 months isnt even enough time to get used to the game, i was getting into mining and a few other things by then, once you hit over a year, when your character is getting REALLY good, then you can learn how to go into low sec, and learn PVP, as i said PVP is not orbit and fire, you CANNOT orbit and fire, otherwise you will be dead. if you did this you would know this.

And only at the end did i give you one personal attack, anything else was just a statement of truth to the game, if you had played long enough to venture into below .2 sec space, you would understand this as well. you probably barely had 4-5mil in sp, barely getting a good fitting into ships, you might have ventured into something in lower sec, gotten owned at a gate camp like so many do, got pissed because you lost a very expensive ship you couldnt replace because you didn't insure it, and left the game.

edit: you also probly built a craptastic character, were'nt earning nearly enough SP in a month and decided to quit as well. in a given month you should earn at least a million sp. i have also never been in a real PVP fight where i turned my armor reps on and off, they stayed on because of how much damage i was taking. another point.

wow...i only have to "play" and pay for the game for a year for it to become fun? hell, you even mentioned that at 5 months isn't enough time to get used to the game. when i want to play a game, i want to have fun, not sit and learn every minute detail about every ship and weapon or sit and wait for my skills to increase.

 

[imaheadcase]

You don't have to do any of that, if you want instant action go play a FPS game. The game is a UNIVERSE you can do lots of stuff. Sorry to be the one to finally tell you this, but your idea of fun is not everyone else's.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

exactly, i said to be REALLY good, that is, your starting to get to know the game very well, and having alot more fun because your starting to know the corp your in if your in one that long. if you go freelance it can be fun as well but its harder. at 1 year, your character is getting good i said. you can always go other routes and get good faster, as in, low sec hauler, you can do that within 6 months. and like imaheadcase said, go to FPS's if you cant stand waiting awhile to have more fun, its the same from what i've noticed in FFXI, WoW, and Lineage 2 as well from when i played them, a friend of mine that played Lineage 2 for a couple years even told me it took em awhile to start having more fun. i joined a corp right off the bat, while it was entertaining, it wasnt untill my second corp 3-5 months into the game that i was having more fun. up until i deployed(5-7 months) i was having more, as you progress you just start enjoying it more because you find the crowd you enjoy the most, and yes small corps are the most fun because you get to know everyone it in, and you usually start off in a high position in the corp.

you dont HAVE to wait until much later in the game, you can be a mission runner but it isnt a whole lot of fun like some people believe and when you start getting to the hard missions(lvl's 4 & 5) you cant do them alone, and thats where a corp comes in handy. i enjoyed my last corp, but like i said, im going pirate when i get back because it just sounds like more fun anyway.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
well then, like i challenged you, build a ship, with no T2 ships, No T2 fittings, and No faction ships or fittings, and i bet i can build a ship that will beat yours. just off of base, no skills included into reducing or increasing anything. building a ship does require skill, and does require you to think about what you might encouter in the game, you cant fight everything with only one fitting of a ship, you may encouter a drone user, then encounter a ECW ship, or you might find a sniper, or a blaster boat. each require a different fitting to counter it. and you said that building a ship didnt require skill did you not? your now saying that its knowing the mechanics equal to skill, why did you change what your stating. 5 months isnt even enough time to get used to the game, i was getting into mining and a few other things by then, once you hit over a year, when your character is getting REALLY good, then you can learn how to go into low sec, and learn PVP, as i said PVP is not orbit and fire, you CANNOT orbit and fire, otherwise you will be dead. if you did this you would know this.

And only at the end did i give you one personal attack, anything else was just a statement of truth to the game, if you had played long enough to venture into below .2 sec space, you would understand this as well. you probably barely had 4-5mil in sp, barely getting a good fitting into ships, you might have ventured into something in lower sec, gotten owned at a gate camp like so many do, got pissed because you lost a very expensive ship you couldnt replace because you didn't insure it, and left the game.

edit: you also probly built a craptastic character, were'nt earning nearly enough SP in a month and decided to quit as well. in a given month you should earn at least a million sp. i have also never been in a real PVP fight where i turned my armor reps on and off, they stayed on because of how much damage i was taking. another point.

For the love of god man, stfu about the ships.

Building ships is not pvp combat. I criticized the slow paced and poorly implemented ACTUAL COMBAT SYSTEM. You know, combat.

com·bat (k?m-bat', kom'bat') Pronunciation Key
v. com·bat·ed or com·bat·ted, com·bat·ing or com·bat·ting, com·bats

v. tr.

To oppose in battle; fight against.

And youre right, i had 5mil sp in 5 months, i did play every day.
However i was in a 0 sec corp... and always insured everything.

The combat, even in pvp, was simplistic and boring. There isnt any skill involved, just who has the better ship for the situation.

 

[crownjules]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
The combat, even in pvp, was simplistic and boring. There isnt any skill involved, just who has the better ship for the situation.

No, there is quite a bit of skill involved. Half of a battle is knowing how to properly outfit your ship, which contrary to your belief is a tough thing to do because >50% of EVE's population doesn't do it very well. Actually engaging and fighting is the other half.

In the end, it's no different then any other MMORPG out there. They all pretty much stack up the same and PVP combat is no more/less exciting from one to another. You run around your opponent, clicking buttons furiously, and hope you were better prepared then he/she was.

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Truenofan
well then, like i challenged you, build a ship, with no T2 ships, No T2 fittings, and No faction ships or fittings, and i bet i can build a ship that will beat yours. just off of base, no skills included into reducing or increasing anything. building a ship does require skill, and does require you to think about what you might encouter in the game, you cant fight everything with only one fitting of a ship, you may encouter a drone user, then encounter a ECW ship, or you might find a sniper, or a blaster boat. each require a different fitting to counter it. and you said that building a ship didnt require skill did you not? your now saying that its knowing the mechanics equal to skill, why did you change what your stating. 5 months isnt even enough time to get used to the game, i was getting into mining and a few other things by then, once you hit over a year, when your character is getting REALLY good, then you can learn how to go into low sec, and learn PVP, as i said PVP is not orbit and fire, you CANNOT orbit and fire, otherwise you will be dead. if you did this you would know this.

And only at the end did i give you one personal attack, anything else was just a statement of truth to the game, if you had played long enough to venture into below .2 sec space, you would understand this as well. you probably barely had 4-5mil in sp, barely getting a good fitting into ships, you might have ventured into something in lower sec, gotten owned at a gate camp like so many do, got pissed because you lost a very expensive ship you couldnt replace because you didn't insure it, and left the game.

edit: you also probly built a craptastic character, were'nt earning nearly enough SP in a month and decided to quit as well. in a given month you should earn at least a million sp. i have also never been in a real PVP fight where i turned my armor reps on and off, they stayed on because of how much damage i was taking. another point.

For the love of god man, stfu about the ships.

Building ships is not pvp combat. I criticized the slow paced and poorly implemented ACTUAL COMBAT SYSTEM. You know, combat.

com·bat (k?m-bat', kom'bat') Pronunciation Key
v. com·bat·ed or com·bat·ted, com·bat·ing or com·bat·ting, com·bats

v. tr.

To oppose in battle; fight against.

And youre right, i had 5mil sp in 5 months, i did play every day.
However i was in a 0 sec corp... and always insured everything.

The combat, even in pvp, was simplistic and boring. There isnt any skill involved, just who has the better ship for the situation.

I've played most of the major MMO's that offer PVP in the past 4 years. EVE is by far the most complicated to offer player combat. Why you keep brining up building ships is beyond me since I qualified my definition of PVP twice. There is a lot of skill involved for SPACIAL COMBAT and you trying to say otherwise shows that you have absolutely no idea about the game is about in general.

At best I'd say you are a troll that got burned by the game and want to turn people off and can use statements like "who has the better (x) for the situation" as a generic reference that can transcend every single MMO in existance that offers combat as well as the difference between the boy scouts that get lost in the woods and the boy scouts that don't.

You haven't commented on tracking, transversal velocity, range, capacitor, speed, signature radius, damage mitigation, missiles, gang stat bonuses, implants, hardwired skills, illegal drug boosters, electronics warfare or the diverse mixes and specializations that come from your understanding of the systems. EVE has its flaws but trying to say the combat is simplistic and boring makes me think you were the type of person who spent a lot of time fighting NPCs and think that has any relevance to Player combat. EVE is as fun as what you put into the game.

Not to mention the oportunity cost for choosing your setup in the first place or how you build your gangs and set up your fights. Gate camp today? Roaming gank squad? Lock down someone's outpost? Tear down someones player built structure? Speed fit to cover multiple regions? Tank fit to do short range ownage? Secure your trade lines so you can get more ships later by making sure your parts are safe today?

Acanthus, you have absolutely no clue.

 

[Michael]

How long before you can "play":

I just wanted to make a note that the game has "zones":

High Security
Low Security
No Security

You start off with 800K experience points in skills and can pilot and fight a ship from the very beginning. You can play the game fine. With more experience in the game and with more skill points (real time based), you'll have access to more content and will do better, but it isn't like you're not playing at all until 1 year in.

Michael

 

[Praxis1452]

Says I'm missing D3DX files?

 

[imported_Truenofan]

yeah i know im concentrating heavily on ships, but you continually state that its all about who has better ships and who has been playing longer. it is completely incorrect, i've gotten a few guys that were 4months or so older than me, thats another 3-4million sp invested in skills, thats alot. it also might have been your race, if you had missles, yes it would be very boring and you dont do anything, i would say gallente are one of the harder races because of all the things you have to work on for them to be good in combat. if you were in a extortion corp or at war constantly its alot more exciting as well.(the last corp i was in was an extortion corp but from what i've heard they've stopped that recently) i wish i could go back to combat like i normally would be, but i cant.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Truenofan
well then, like i challenged you, build a ship, with no T2 ships, No T2 fittings, and No faction ships or fittings, and i bet i can build a ship that will beat yours. just off of base, no skills included into reducing or increasing anything. building a ship does require skill, and does require you to think about what you might encouter in the game, you cant fight everything with only one fitting of a ship, you may encouter a drone user, then encounter a ECW ship, or you might find a sniper, or a blaster boat. each require a different fitting to counter it. and you said that building a ship didnt require skill did you not? your now saying that its knowing the mechanics equal to skill, why did you change what your stating. 5 months isnt even enough time to get used to the game, i was getting into mining and a few other things by then, once you hit over a year, when your character is getting REALLY good, then you can learn how to go into low sec, and learn PVP, as i said PVP is not orbit and fire, you CANNOT orbit and fire, otherwise you will be dead. if you did this you would know this.

And only at the end did i give you one personal attack, anything else was just a statement of truth to the game, if you had played long enough to venture into below .2 sec space, you would understand this as well. you probably barely had 4-5mil in sp, barely getting a good fitting into ships, you might have ventured into something in lower sec, gotten owned at a gate camp like so many do, got pissed because you lost a very expensive ship you couldnt replace because you didn't insure it, and left the game.

edit: you also probly built a craptastic character, were'nt earning nearly enough SP in a month and decided to quit as well. in a given month you should earn at least a million sp. i have also never been in a real PVP fight where i turned my armor reps on and off, they stayed on because of how much damage i was taking. another point.

For the love of god man, stfu about the ships.

Building ships is not pvp combat. I criticized the slow paced and poorly implemented ACTUAL COMBAT SYSTEM. You know, combat.

com·bat (k?m-bat', kom'bat') Pronunciation Key
v. com·bat·ed or com·bat·ted, com·bat·ing or com·bat·ting, com·bats

v. tr.

To oppose in battle; fight against.

And youre right, i had 5mil sp in 5 months, i did play every day.
However i was in a 0 sec corp... and always insured everything.

The combat, even in pvp, was simplistic and boring. There isnt any skill involved, just who has the better ship for the situation.

I've played most of the major MMO's that offer PVP in the past 4 years. EVE is by far the most complicated to offer player combat. Why you keep brining up building ships is beyond me since I qualified my definition of PVP twice. There is a lot of skill involved for SPACIAL COMBAT and you trying to say otherwise shows that you have absolutely no idea about the game is about in general.

At best I'd say you are a troll that got burned by the game and want to turn people off and can use statements like "who has the better (x) for the situation" as a generic reference that can transcend every single MMO in existance that offers combat as well as the difference between the boy scouts that get lost in the woods and the boy scouts that don't.

You haven't commented on tracking, transversal velocity, range, capacitor, speed, signature radius, damage mitigation, missiles, gang stat bonuses, implants, hardwired skills, illegal drug boosters, electronics warfare or the diverse mixes and specializations that come from your understanding of the systems. EVE has its flaws but trying to say the combat is simplistic and boring makes me think you were the type of person who spent a lot of time fighting NPCs and think that has any relevance to Player combat. EVE is as fun as what you put into the game.

Not to mention the oportunity cost for choosing your setup in the first place or how you build your gangs and set up your fights. Gate camp today? Roaming gank squad? Lock down someone's outpost? Tear down someones player built structure? Speed fit to cover multiple regions? Tank fit to do short range ownage? Secure your trade lines so you can get more ships later by making sure your parts are safe today?

Acanthus, you have absolutely no clue.

I have no clue?

tracking, transversal, range, capacitor, speed, sig radius, mitigation, missles, gang stat bonuses, implants, skills, ew, and the rest... are all determined before actual combat takes place.

You guys rabidly defend the game like im some troll just trying to bash Eve, the poor combat is a huge flaw that completely destroys the game for me. Rather than defend combats merits, or even come up with any positives about it, you just rattle off a bunch of game mechanics crap that makes little to no difference at all to the actual combat.

Look at friggin Freespace 2... it has actual flight sim controls, not simplistic "click in the sky where you want to fly" clunky and laggy crap. Freespace 2 also requires you to aim... I dont think we need to get into the differences there. The missions have voice dialogue, the ships individual turrets can be damaged, you can target subsystems to disable different subsystems of the ships...

And you cant say this is the limitations of an MMO... Freespace 2 servers can handle 64 players and hundreds of bots on a P3 500 with 256MB of ram and a Voodoo 3...

Those are my real complaints, call me spoiled from a game that had better combat in 1999 :brokenheart:

For me, eve online was the little engine that could... and didnt.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
yeah i know im concentrating heavily on ships, but you continually state that its all about who has better ships and who has been playing longer. it is completely incorrect, i've gotten a few guys that were 4months or so older than me, thats another 3-4million sp invested in skills, thats alot. it also might have been your race, if you had missles, yes it would be very boring and you dont do anything, i would say gallente are one of the harder races because of all the things you have to work on for them to be good in combat. if you were in a extortion corp or at war constantly its alot more exciting as well.(the last corp i was in was an extortion corp but from what i've heard they've stopped that recently) i wish i could go back to combat like i normally would be, but i cant.

Its all relative, once you pass about the 8m SP mark, you get severe diminishing returns.

However for a starting player, youre about useless out in low sec until you hit 5m or so.

Thats 5 months of gridning the same 9 or so missions, or hunting npcs.

 

[Stefx]

To respond to the OP... many things have been said, I'll probably echo some, but here's my take:

I've been playing Eve for about six months. For quick and simple adrenaline shots, I still go back to CSS, but otherwise I haven't played another computer game since I started Eve.

I totally agree that it's a "love it or hate it" game. I personally happen to love it.

Here are a few points that come to mind:

The game is complex enough to keep you interested. You keep wanting to learn more, you read forums, you read strategy guides.

Age average of the community is 27 years old (according to a survey)

Reflexes don't matter in this game.

The economy side of the game is fun. Actually I play 60% the economy side (mining, trading) and 40% PvE (missions)

I love the time-based skill system. No level-grinding, no experience grinding. This time-based system is great for those who can't invest a ton of time into playing, but still want to progress even though they can only play a few hours here and there.
The down side to the time-based system is that the highest level skills are very long to learn (weeks).

Ship design is complex and fun. It makes you think a lot, you evaluate tons of options... you make long-term planning.

The game is definitely long-term. The good side to that is that the ones playing are in it for the long haul. Although there are jerks, there tends to be less than short-term games.

Joining a corporation is necessary to have fun. Although it's tough to find a good one, once you do it's a blast. Hey, sometimes I log in just to chat with my corp mates.

The visuals are great. Some systems are absolutely beautiful, and most of the ships are gorgeous. There are so many different ship designs, it's impressive they came up with that many.

The game can run in a window, so while you mine away on some asteroids, you can do other things easily.

Ship fighting: although I only PvE, I like the fact that the fighting is kind of using the "rock-paper-scissors" approach. To every strategy there is a counter-strategy. There isn't one single "super-ship" that beats every one else's ship.

Fighting is complex. It doesn't consist of everyone mounting the biggest gun and going out there. 90% of the fight is done in station at the ship fitting stage. What you install will have a great impact on the outcome of the fight. Put the wrong modules on and you'll regret it. Also combat roles vary... You can be a support ship fixing others, you can be a small tackler ship... etc

Regarding the "mouse click" approach versus "joystick"... I would also like to pilot the smaller ships with a joystick, but I admit that most of the ships in Eve are very large, and I can't imagine the USS Enterprise flying with a joystick and seeing someone having to "aim" at targets. I wish Eve could accept joystick input... but for aiming I think the computer should be taking care of it by letting me designate targets.

So there was my take on the game. I don't recall any game keeping me interested for 6 months other than this one.

 

[Michael]

An example of just how deep the economy is

This was an interesting bit of news when they hired the chief economist and it looks like the press has picked up on it as well.

Michael

 

[imported_Truenofan]

um...im still getting 1mil sp a month even at 9mil sp total. so i havent hit the point of diminishing returns yet i guess. learning skills will help you alot in the long run as well as a good set of implants. only time i lost a ship, was when i stupidly hit autopilot and passed through a .2 sec system, but i deserved that. havent another outside of taking on a vidicator(possibly the best faction or battleship in game overall.). other than that, its a great game honestly.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
um...im still getting 1mil sp a month even at 9mil sp total. so i havent hit the point of diminishing returns yet i guess. learning skills will help you alot in the long run as well as a good set of implants. only time i lost a ship, was when i stupidly hit autopilot and passed through a .2 sec system, but i deserved that. havent another outside of taking on a vidicator(possibly the best faction or battleship in game overall.). other than that, its a great game honestly.

The skill points dont come any slower, they just dont matter as much because taking skills to level 4 and 5 costs substantially more for very little actual gain.

 

[nsafreak]

Acanthus that really depends upon which skill you're talking about. For some skills yes that is the case. However for other skills you are very wrong. A good example of that would be Advanced Weapons Upgrades or Drone Interfacing. Taking either one of those up to level 5 has a big difference in terms of returns between it and level 3. Then there are also ships that give you bonuses for ship skills being higher. You don't want to take my brutix on when I'm flying it most of the time as I have battlecruisers at level 5. Insofar as the whole combat interface being too simplistic I really don't think you've taken in what other folks have said. I'm not going to repeat it but I agree with them. And trying to implement a control system like that with as many as 35,000 people connected to the server cluster simultaneously along with the other items that it has to manage (like the market, NPCs, and various other things) that are FAR more complex than Freespace II ever was is just beyond reasonable.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: nsafreak
Acanthus that really depends upon which skill you're talking about. For some skills yes that is the case. However for other skills you are very wrong. A good example of that would be Advanced Weapons Upgrades or Drone Interfacing. Taking either one of those up to level 5 has a big difference in terms of returns between it and level 3. Then there are also ships that give you bonuses for ship skills being higher. You don't want to take my brutix on when I'm flying it most of the time as I have battlecruisers at level 5. Insofar as the whole combat interface being too simplistic I really don't think you've taken in what other folks have said. I'm not going to repeat it but I agree with them. And trying to implement a control system like that with as many as 35,000 people connected to the server cluster simultaneously along with the other items that it has to manage (like the market, NPCs, and various other things) that are FAR more complex than Freespace II ever was is just beyond reasonable.

The NPCs are almost identical in AI ability to freespace...

And yes, getting some skills to 5 is helpful.... but it takes 5x as many SPs to get to level 5 as it does level 4, and its a linear increase in effectiveness for exponentially more SP. Hence that point where you get most combat skills to level 4 (around 10m SP) is when you see diminishing returns.

The database is in no way linked to the rest of the game. The market, loot, and inventory system is completely seperate from the other server functions.

So what youre saying is, a dual opteron server (they run 200 of them) cant handle good controls, but a pentium 3 can host 64 players and 250+ bots doing exactly that?

 

[Michael]

nsafreak - I mainly agree with Acanthus on skill progression. Going from BC 4 to BC 5 for me would take about 30 days. That is 30 days of effort for +5% with medium hybrid turrets and +7.5% armor repair effectiveness. With 30 days of training in other skills, I probably could meet or beat the jump from Battle Cruiser 4 to BC 5. My Medium Hybrid Turret skills are at 3 now, in 30 days I could easily get them to 5, get T2 blasters and also go from Weapons Upgrades 3 to 5 and get some levels of Advanced Weapon Upgrades. So if I wanted to make my Brutix fighting better, I have other options I certainly would go for. I have tended to work on fitting and tanking skills before ship skills and that makes my ships better because I can mount more and better equipment.

His point on the move from 4 to 5 in many, many skills is 100% accurate. The time spent is barely worth it. Drone Interfacing from IV to V is about the only one that made the most sense to me (+20% damage is huge) but that still does not remove the fact that it took about 5 time as long to go from 4 to 5 as it did from 3 to 4 and I got exactly the same increase in bonus.

So there is a strong argument that going from 4 to 5 in most skills is a matter of diminishing returns and you could have a more rounded and better developed character if you didn't. Instead of matching damage, I could have trained in ECM and your Brutix would hit harder than mine, but you would never lock as I spend 30 days getting to 3 or 4 in ECM skills.

However, Acanthus is also over simplifying. Going from 4 to 5 in BC skill unlocks the Command Ship skill. So all your BC are that little bit better, but you now get the chance to fly Comamnd Ships and they're much better than BCs. There are many skills that need 5 in a previous one to unlock them.

He is also oversimplying Freespace to Eve in comparison. Freespace is one "shard" and much more limited in terms of what the server has to handle. Plus 64 people in one system and 250 bots to track is replicated all over the place in Eve, so adding FPS-like steering the ships would greatly increase server load (and bandwidth). That is why no MMORPG has an Unreal or Quake like PVP. System requirements (mainly set code coupled with tracking the worlds) overwhelms the current state of the art fro programming and systems. One day, yes. But not today.

That said, I played cat and mouse in a low sec system for almost an hour today and I was constantly making course and alignment adjustments so I could warp right away (I was chasing one guy while being chased by another). Not quite steering via joyspick, but not orbit and click like Acanthus likes to group all Eve combat.

Michael