EVE online

[Seeruk]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Honestly my biggest complaint with eve was the extremely lackluster combat.

*orbit and activate stuff*
*wait for winner*
*loot and talk smack, or start buildling a new ship*

If Eve had a freespace 2 level of control over the ship, i would seriously never leave my home.

That is so untrue (of PvP anyway). They are the kinds of tactics that make for an easy kill

I have been in fights that have been decided by my switching range, switching ammo, the choice of drones I used, switching how many turrets I used (in order to make my capacitor last longer), use of EW, type of turrets used etc etc... there are so many variables that the 'tactics' you mention are the exception rather than the rule.

Yes when you are fighting npc you could use such a method... it would be very boring but you could and quite effectively. But then the npcs are only really there as 'training' and it is never ever that simple in PvP. If it was then I wouldnt have killed 2 cruisers with a single frigate, or one glorious day 3 of us in frigates brought down a pair of battleships... etc etc.

I get what you are saying if you are a npc farmer, and yes we would all love a Freespace type control system if it was a single player game. But in a PvP battle with only a handful of ships there is so much to think about and react to (with so little time) that Freespace-type controls would actually be a disadvantage.

 

[Wheelock]

Originally posted by: Seeruk
But in order to have this ideal, you need to be able to enjoy it thinking in the long term. Thus the 95% of the computer game playing population who have extreme ADD hate it.... which suits the rest of us just fine as we are able to enjoy a game for 4 or 5 years so far without the 'pwning d00ds'

Plenty of adults with long attention spans don't take to the game, either. It certainly wasn't for me. FWIW, I've seen plenty of adults who were the equivalent of "pwning d00ds," as you put it. They may be able to string a sentence together, but they still gang up on solo players and grief them, then brag about it on the official forums.

I'm still glad that EVE is around, though. It's always good to see a title that caters to the more mature gamer.

 

[Seeruk]

Originally posted by: Wheelock

Originally posted by: Seeruk
But in order to have this ideal, you need to be able to enjoy it thinking in the long term. Thus the 95% of the computer game playing population who have extreme ADD hate it.... which suits the rest of us just fine as we are able to enjoy a game for 4 or 5 years so far without the 'pwning d00ds'

Plenty of adults with long attention spans don't take to the game, either. It certainly wasn't for me. FWIW, I've seen plenty of adults who were the equivalent of "pwning d00ds," as you put it. They may be able to string a sentence together, but they still gang up on solo players and grief them, then brag about it on the official forums.

I'm still glad that EVE is around, though. It's always good to see a title that caters to the more mature gamer.

Oh I absolutely agree, by adults I am talking in terms of behaviour and not age

But there really is no place for the solo gamer in Eve (unless you are into just safe trading in Empire space in which case you may as well play with excel ).

Its the wild west out there in space and it's suicide to think of it in any other way, thus the reason why corp membership is essential as someone else mentioned. Then thats what MMORPG's are all about.

 

[Michael]

As I mentioned earlier, my corp (Empire-based) is under attack from an extortionist cirporation right now. We've actually done mosre damage to them than they've done to us so far, but if you're looking to try out PvP, we accept newer members. Safe in that if you don't like it and leave the corporation, you stop being a war target. We're being attacked and camped daily, so plenty of fighting to be had.

We offer what most corporations do - a team to play with, cheaper ships, free equipment and help in learning the game. Many of our members are fairly new players (I'm just in 1 year and have 15M skill points but we have a fair number of 3 - 6 month old characters in us). We usually recruit slowly, no spamming away. Usually newer players that we help out and get to know and then bring into the corp.

I'm a director of the corp, so just drop me a message here and I'll give you the in game information.

regards,

Michael

 

[nsafreak]

Which corp are you in Michael and which corp has wardecced you? I'm always up for popping some folks so if they pass through lowsec systems I could say hello to them My Ishtar, Astarte and other ships could always use some more stamps indicating ship kills

 

[pontifex]

If you think this game only has mature people playing, you're just fooling yourself. There are plenty of idiots playing this game. Same goes for every MMORPG, hell, any game where you play with other people.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Seeruk

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Honestly my biggest complaint with eve was the extremely lackluster combat.

*orbit and activate stuff*
*wait for winner*
*loot and talk smack, or start buildling a new ship*

If Eve had a freespace 2 level of control over the ship, i would seriously never leave my home.

That is so untrue (of PvP anyway). They are the kinds of tactics that make for an easy kill

I have been in fights that have been decided by my switching range, switching ammo, the choice of drones I used, switching how many turrets I used (in order to make my capacitor last longer), use of EW, type of turrets used etc etc... there are so many variables that the 'tactics' you mention are the exception rather than the rule.

Yes when you are fighting npc you could use such a method... it would be very boring but you could and quite effectively. But then the npcs are only really there as 'training' and it is never ever that simple in PvP. If it was then I wouldnt have killed 2 cruisers with a single frigate, or one glorious day 3 of us in frigates brought down a pair of battleships... etc etc.

I get what you are saying if you are a npc farmer, and yes we would all love a Freespace type control system if it was a single player game. But in a PvP battle with only a handful of ships there is so much to think about and react to (with so little time) that Freespace-type controls would actually be a disadvantage.

Refitting the ship isnt part of actual combat... thats done at a station where there basically is no combat. And i apologize, the heart racing time it takes to switch ammo types does make the combat intense.

You are correct, freespace type controls would be a massive disadvantage. Youd have to fly your ship, actually aim, and really use strategy.

 

[cirrhosis]

Originally posted by: pontifex
If you think this game only has mature people playing, you're just fooling yourself. There are plenty of idiots playing this game. Same goes for every MMORPG, hell, any game where you play with other people.

Unfortunately this is true; certain entire alliances are filled with this type of player, and Empire space is chock full of clueless noobs who don't seem to acknowledge they are playing a MMO at all.

 

[hooflung]

I've been playing EVE 4 years as of the first of this month.

I recently shut down my corp that is also 4 years old and most of us are moving on, I have. PVP in this game is fun and very skill based. A lot of people just don't 'get' it like the somebody in this thread.

The game at its core about economy. It is at the foundation a working thesis on opportunity cost and the production possibility frontier. Industry feeds spacial combat PVP, industry is also PVP.

The game isn't as easy as clicking a module and and firing, you need to know about transversal velocity for turrets, explosion velocity for missiles and a wide variety of others. There are specializations for new people to go into so they can compete with vets and there are many different ways to approach the game.

Blobbing is currently the way people are playing the alliance game. There is currently a long going war between two alliances that have pulled in a great many other alliances in with it. The servers can't really handle what the people do ( jumping in 300 people into a system with 300 people etc ).

But the game is fun and there still is a lot of space left for people to explore. Each race has its own benefits or gamestyle. Some days you can jump in and get right into a fight and some days it takes hours, even days, setting up a fight. Because it is player based, you cannot always control the flow of the game. ADD players need not sign up.

Also, there are a GREAT many good corporations in the game from roleplaying to down right griefing ( another form of roleplaying but don't let the griefers hear you call them roleplayers or they will l337s33k j00 teh d3@7h ).

There will be a new client later this year that takes advantage of DX9 hardware. Believe it or not, the majority of graphics in EVE are DX7 based which is unfortunately limiting the GPU from the render process since its a lot of CPU based calculations. Vista will have a DX10 client that builds on the DX9 client. The models for both new clients are simply amazing. They are always adding new hardware to the cluster and trying, somethings with no luck, to increase performance. The developers care about their game. Players continue to push the level so their work is not always seen.

All in all, if you appreciate the game play it offers then sign up. If you don't then try LOTRO or WoW ( or Titan Quest if you don't want to pay monthly fees ).

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: hooflung
PVP in this game is fun and very skill based.

Building a ship right is not skill, its experience.

Using the right ammo isnt skill either.

Understanding how to build a ship doesnt require combat skill.

 

[hooflung]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: hooflung
PVP in this game is fun and very skill based.

Building a ship right is not skill, its experience.

Using the right ammo isnt skill either.

Understanding how to build a ship doesnt require combat skill.

Are you brain dead? Do you actually read the entire post I made. Clearly you haven't. Which leads me to conclude you do not understand EVE at all. Let me point this out to you in what I said before.

The game at its core about economy. It is at the foundation a working thesis on opportunity cost and the production possibility frontier. Industry feeds spacial combat PVP, industry is also PVP.

Take economics 101. Economics is the study of what you do with what you have. Opportunity cost is the cost of making your choice over another choice. In Industry you have the Law of Increasing Opportunity Cost based on ships. In SPACIAL COMBAT you opportunity cost comes first over which ship you should buy. Do you buy a cheaper ship, or more of them, or a more expensive ship. Your next opportunity cost is what you actually fit to the ship. Do you put modules x, y, z or do you feel x, a, z would be better today because a is more geared toward a situation you might face over y.

SPACIAL combat notice I said SPACIAL is you fighting people in SPACE. That sir, is PVP. However, because Industrialists are fully supported under a player based economy industry itself is PVP. Its just not direct combat related unless you are providing arms to your combatants. They both feed each other and thus, viola, a game is created. Don't try to argue that of what you have no understanding about.

Obviously you don't know enough about the mechanics of piloting a ship to bleed the turnip, so to speak, from basic control interface to exact skill out of your ship. You are chumping on the game but the game really chumped you.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: hooflung

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: hooflung
PVP in this game is fun and very skill based.

Building a ship right is not skill, its experience.

Using the right ammo isnt skill either.

Understanding how to build a ship doesnt require combat skill.

Are you brain dead? Do you actually read the entire post I made. Clearly you haven't. Which leads me to conclude you do not understand EVE at all. Let me point this out to you in what I said before.

The game at its core about economy. It is at the foundation a working thesis on opportunity cost and the production possibility frontier. Industry feeds spacial combat PVP, industry is also PVP.

Take economics 101. Economics is the study of what you do with what you have. Opportunity cost is the cost of making your choice over another choice. In Industry you have the Law of Increasing Opportunity Cost based on ships. In SPACIAL COMBAT you opportunity cost comes first over which ship you should buy. Do you buy a cheaper ship, or more of them, or a more expensive ship. Your next opportunity cost is what you actually fit to the ship. Do you put modules x, y, z or do you feel x, a, z would be better today because a is more geared toward a situation you might face over y.

SPACIAL combat notice I said SPACIAL is you fighting people in SPACE. That sir, is PVP. However, because Industrialists are fully supported under a player based economy industry itself is PVP. Its just not direct combat related unless you are providing arms to your combatants. They both feed each other and thus, viola, a game is created. Don't try to argue that of what you have no understanding about.

Obviously you don't know enough about the mechanics of piloting a ship to bleed the turnip, so to speak, from basic control interface to exact skill out of your ship. You are chumping on the game but the game really chumped you.

You must be kidding, you are actually suggesting that using the market is a form of pvp combat.

Yeah, thats thrilling too.

I guess the people who shop hot deals "just to get a good deal" would enjoy that aspect of eve then.

By the way, ive taken econ courses, tossing opcost in like its a vital concept unique to eve is just about retarded, how is what you are suggesting is so unique to eve different from gearing any char in any rpg for "tanking/dps/crit/outdamaging/outlasting your opponent"

Again, building a ship is not skill. Loading ammuntion is not skill. Clicking orbit and letting the best ship for the situation win is not skill. Winning because youve been paying for the game longer than your oppenent is not skill either. You dont seem to understand the concept that any jackass can build a ship with an hour or so of research.

Skill, when you are talking about pvp, real pvp, refers to things like strategy, aiming, positioning. All of these things are pretty much automated in eve online. You can put up all of the distractions to this you want talking about economics and whatever else you want to fill space in your post. The fact is, the combat is skilless and boring. If you dont believe me, watch any friggin eve video on youtube that shows the combat system. Hell its boring even when sped up 10x...

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Seeruk
What people don't appreciate about eve is that it actually gives you everything that the players of MMORPG cry out for. A 100% player-based economy, the ability to affect the world, complete freedom to do what the hell you want, wars, effect the storyline, gazillions of events, be successfull in a million different ways etc etc

But in order to have this ideal, you need to be able to enjoy it thinking in the long term. Thus the 95% of the computer game playing population who have extreme ADD hate it.... which suits the rest of us just fine as we are able to enjoy a game for 4 or 5 years so far without the 'pwning d00ds'

I agree but the one area where I find it lacking is the time based skills development concept. I much prefer to have to use my skills to increase them then to have a non-interactive waiting period in which I sit and watch a clock run down.

 

[Wheelock]

Originally posted by: hooflung

Are you brain dead? Do you actually read the entire post I made. Clearly you haven't. Which leads me to conclude you do not understand EVE at all. Let me point this out to you...

Take economics 101...

SPACIAL combat notice I said SPACIAL is you fighting people in SPACE. That sir, is PVP...

Don't try to argue that of what you have no understanding about.

Obviously you don't know enough about the mechanics of piloting a ship to bleed the turnip, so to speak, from basic control interface to exact skill out of your ship. You are chumping on the game but the game really chumped you.

^ Hooflung's Greatest Hits

You're taking a disagreement about a video game way too seriously. There's no need to be so petulant. Maybe you've been playing it for too long and need to step away from the keyboard for a while.

 

[Michael]

nsafreak - we got the CEO of the war deccing corp this morning, took down his ship and podded him. Shortly thereafter they retracted the war dec. I think they were going to do that anyways as we were fighting smart (Empire) - hiding in station and then ganking them when we had the advantage. However, the timing was sweet.

I think that they didn't expect mission running carebears to put up such a huge fight but they didn't realize we're actually getting closer to making a move to 0.0 and this is the 3rd time we have been war decced so we know the drill.

Michael

ps - hooflung is overcalling combat but Acanthus is under calling it. If you know what you're doing, there is more than orbit and activate modules. However, a lot of fights are just that - orbit and kill.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
You must be kidding, you are actually suggesting that using the market is a form of pvp combat.

Yeah, thats thrilling too.

In this game, using the market most definitely IS a form of pvp. If you sell someone a ship, that means that you deprived another player of the monetary gain from that sale. EVE has had large-scale economic warfare in the game, with cartels, pyramid schemes, monopolies, and scams (some of which would probably impress the entire population of Nigeria). I know players in the game who seriously get into creating spreadsheets to calculate profit margins and so forth, and who get their primary enjoyment from the game out of manipulating the market.

However, by no means do you have to play the game that way.

 

[Praxis1452]

I think I'm gonna give this game a try. does this work in vista?

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Acanthus
You must be kidding, you are actually suggesting that using the market is a form of pvp combat.

Yeah, thats thrilling too.

In this game, using the market most definitely IS a form of pvp. If you sell someone a ship, that means that you deprived another player of the monetary gain from that sale. EVE has had large-scale economic warfare in the game, with cartels, pyramid schemes, monopolies, and scams (some of which would probably impress the entire population of Nigeria). I know players in the game who seriously get into creating spreadsheets to calculate profit margins and so forth, and who get their primary enjoyment from the game out of manipulating the market.

However, by no means do you have to play the game that way.

You mean Australia as the real creator of the email scam was a Aussie.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
This game is VERY hard on new players, and if you don't ge ton your feet quickly, you will grow bored fast. I'm 2 months in and Im having a blast with my battlecruiser, 30 person corp, and lots of pirating, wars, pvp, and mining.

Try it out.

Yeah that's what got me was the learning curve seemed very very steep. I haven't tried it in a year or so, so maybe I'll drop back in and give it a shot.

 

[stevty2889]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
I think I'm gonna give this game a try. does this work in vista?

Yes, I run it in Vista with no problems.

 

[nsafreak]

Originally posted by: Michael
nsafreak - we got the CEO of the war deccing corp this morning, took down his ship and podded him. Shortly thereafter they retracted the war dec. I think they were going to do that anyways as we were fighting smart (Empire) - hiding in station and then ganking them when we had the advantage. However, the timing was sweet.

I think that they didn't expect mission running carebears to put up such a huge fight but they didn't realize we're actually getting closer to making a move to 0.0 and this is the 3rd time we have been war decced so we know the drill.

Michael

ps - hooflung is overcalling combat but Acanthus is under calling it. If you know what you're doing, there is more than orbit and activate modules. However, a lot of fights are just that - orbit and kill.

Nice work there michael. Good tactics, would've frustrated my former corp a little bit. I used to be in a griefer corp and we got our kicks out of wardeccing other corps. Nowadays I fly with a PvP corp that hangs around Stain and we do some Empire pvping. Feel free to say hi to me in game, I go by the name Simon Monkoto in EVE.

 

[chocobaR]

I'm in a corp named Eve University. It's goal is to teach new players how to play the game then set them free if they wish. Got 1600 members now. Message me in the game if you want to talk, I'm Mishmin Gorak.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

"Again, building a ship is not skill. Loading ammuntion is not skill. Clicking orbit and letting the best ship for the situation win is not skill. Winning because youve been paying for the game longer than your oppenent is not skill either. You dont seem to understand the concept that any jackass can build a ship with an hour or so of research."

you my friend, are an idiot, he stated, "The game isn't as easy as clicking a module and and firing, you need to know about transversal velocity for turrets, explosion velocity for missiles and a wide variety of others. There are specializations for new people to go into so they can compete with vets and there are many different ways to approach the game. " and go ahed, tell me the ship, modules you'd use and i'll give you a ship that will beat it. and neither ship can be faction or t2. no t2 modules either.

READ what the fuck he says before you say something. transversal velocity, if your turrets are too slow they wont hit if the other ship is moving and your moving, sometimes you have to stop in order to hit them, if they don't have the right tracking size, they wont hit, ship size is very dependant in the game as well as turrets. having super large turrets wont hit a frigate, and having extremely small turrets, wont do that much damage to a big ship then there's optimal range, you can do damage far away, and you can do damage up to a point in close range, but there's a recommended range for you to fire your guns for the maximum amount of damage as well. missiles are a bit different, no optimum range or minimum, but there is a maximum and a small ship can outrun the blast velocity of a missile if the ship is moving fast enough, while a large ship gets hit hard with a larger missile because it takes in all the blast damage too. hitting orbit in a pvp fight in 0.0 space, is death, you WILL lose your ship out there, end of story. you have to know how to pilot your ship otherwise your never going to make it out of below 0.2 sec(you should either be in a shuttle or in a large group if your doing anything in case you get gate jumped.

Acanthus(i dub thee ADD boy) i can tell you didn't play the game at all and you went right back to WoW because you obviously don't understand even the basics of combat in this game. Eve online is very unforgiving to new people playing, read the online players guide and learn the basics off of that as well. there's a tutorial for when you first start it up, its rather long and rather boring, but it teaches you the basics on how to play. learning the rest is up to you. if you need help playing pm me and I'll help you out best i can in game. i enjoy it because its different than requiring you to play to level up, you can have the most skill points in game, and still blow ass if you don't know how to play or what your doing.(BTW, i have a tad over 9mil SP which is not that great i will say) a pvp battle is not about orbit and shooting, but shooting npc rats(real pirates are pirates, not rats) is about orbit and fire. i've been in a few wars and i have NEVER used orbit and activate method when firing upon anyone.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
"Again, building a ship is not skill. Loading ammuntion is not skill. Clicking orbit and letting the best ship for the situation win is not skill. Winning because youve been paying for the game longer than your oppenent is not skill either. You dont seem to understand the concept that any jackass can build a ship with an hour or so of research."

you my friend, are an idiot, he stated, "The game isn't as easy as clicking a module and and firing, you need to know about transversal velocity for turrets, explosion velocity for missiles and a wide variety of others. There are specializations for new people to go into so they can compete with vets and there are many different ways to approach the game. " and go ahed, tell me the ship, modules you'd use and i'll give you a ship that will beat it. and neither ship can be faction or t2. no t2 modules either.

READ what the fuck he says before you say something. transversal velocity, if your turrets are too slow they wont hit if the other ship is moving and your moving, sometimes you have to stop in order to hit them, if they don't have the right tracking size, they wont hit, ship size is very dependant in the game as well as turrets. having super large turrets wont hit a frigate, and having extremely small turrets, wont do that much damage to a big ship then there's optimal range, you can do damage far away, and you can do damage up to a point in close range, but there's a recommended range for you to fire your guns for the maximum amount of damage as well. missiles are a bit different, no optimum range or minimum, but there is a maximum and a small ship can outrun the blast velocity of a missile if the ship is moving fast enough, while a large ship gets hit hard with a larger missile because it takes in all the blast damage too. hitting orbit in a pvp fight in 0.0 space, is death, you WILL lose your ship out there, end of story. you have to know how to pilot your ship otherwise your never going to make it out of below 0.2 sec(you should either be in a shuttle or in a large group if your doing anything in case you get gate jumped.

Acanthus(i dub thee ADD boy) i can tell you didn't play the game at all and you went right back to WoW because you obviously don't understand even the basics of combat in this game. Eve online is very unforgiving to new people playing, read the online players guide and learn the basics off of that as well. there's a tutorial for when you first start it up, its rather long and rather boring, but it teaches you the basics on how to play. learning the rest is up to you. if you need help playing pm me and I'll help you out best i can in game. i enjoy it because its different than requiring you to play to level up, you can have the most skill points in game, and still blow ass if you don't know how to play or what your doing.(BTW, i have a tad over 9mil SP which is not that great i will say) a pvp battle is not about orbit and shooting, but shooting npc rats(real pirates are pirates, not rats) is about orbit and fire. i've been in a few wars and i have NEVER used orbit and activate method when firing upon anyone.

QFT. BTW, what is your Eve name?

 

[JRich]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
"Again, building a ship is not skill. Loading ammuntion is not skill. Clicking orbit and letting the best ship for the situation win is not skill. Winning because youve been paying for the game longer than your oppenent is not skill either. You dont seem to understand the concept that any jackass can build a ship with an hour or so of research."

you my friend, are an idiot, he stated, "The game isn't as easy as clicking a module and and firing, you need to know about transversal velocity for turrets, explosion velocity for missiles and a wide variety of others. There are specializations for new people to go into so they can compete with vets and there are many different ways to approach the game. " and go ahed, tell me the ship, modules you'd use and i'll give you a ship that will beat it. and neither ship can be faction or t2. no t2 modules either.

READ what the fuck he says before you say something. transversal velocity, if your turrets are too slow they wont hit if the other ship is moving and your moving, sometimes you have to stop in order to hit them, if they don't have the right tracking size, they wont hit, ship size is very dependant in the game as well as turrets. having super large turrets wont hit a frigate, and having extremely small turrets, wont do that much damage to a big ship then there's optimal range, you can do damage far away, and you can do damage up to a point in close range, but there's a recommended range for you to fire your guns for the maximum amount of damage as well. missiles are a bit different, no optimum range or minimum, but there is a maximum and a small ship can outrun the blast velocity of a missile if the ship is moving fast enough, while a large ship gets hit hard with a larger missile because it takes in all the blast damage too. hitting orbit in a pvp fight in 0.0 space, is death, you WILL lose your ship out there, end of story. you have to know how to pilot your ship otherwise your never going to make it out of below 0.2 sec(you should either be in a shuttle or in a large group if your doing anything in case you get gate jumped.

Acanthus(i dub thee ADD boy) i can tell you didn't play the game at all and you went right back to WoW because you obviously don't understand even the basics of combat in this game. Eve online is very unforgiving to new people playing, read the online players guide and learn the basics off of that as well. there's a tutorial for when you first start it up, its rather long and rather boring, but it teaches you the basics on how to play. learning the rest is up to you. if you need help playing pm me and I'll help you out best i can in game. i enjoy it because its different than requiring you to play to level up, you can have the most skill points in game, and still blow ass if you don't know how to play or what your doing.(BTW, i have a tad over 9mil SP which is not that great i will say) a pvp battle is not about orbit and shooting, but shooting npc rats(real pirates are pirates, not rats) is about orbit and fire. i've been in a few wars and i have NEVER used orbit and activate method when firing upon anyone.

:thumbsup: I'm a railgun whore so I have to watch the transversal velocity of my targets which means NO ORBITING