You need to travel more. Many of those countries smoke and drink a LOT more than the US.
But those countries don't have tens of millions of uninsured not getting the care they need. And they don't have insured who are dropped due to pre-existing conditions, and so on. They treat health coverage as an essential human need, not as a financial instrument.
EU has more citizens than US, and few, if any uninsured.
Yet they have unversal coverage...
americans make different lifestyle choices, culture differences etc.
but beyond that, if your stance is results, then i see you agree with me in post #2. quality will have to suffer to lower costs and cover everyone. then, some 'other' country will invest in HC R&D and leave the US behind. soon enough it will be us looking like were in the 1950's.
LMAO
10/10 for deflection.
Deflection? It's completely true. America is full of lazy slobs, that eat terrible food, and don't exercise. We have a microwave mentality, give me convenience or give me death is just the name of a great album, it's become the American anthem. Hell, driving around on Christmas day it was saddening to see that the only places open were Weinerschnitzel, and Burger King, and they were fucking packed.
So that's why we are honored to pay the most for Healthcare with the least amount of output then any other civilized Country?
Like forbes isn't a biased source, after all Stevy boy did run for pres as a repub at one time.
In Europe we're happy with the costs, less excited about the quality.
In the states you seem unhappy with the costs, but excited about the quality.
Guess you can't have both :/
Uhh... yeah they are. Doctors are the only people who can write prescriptions. If I need my medication refilled, I see a doctor.
The worst are the doctors who ask a bunch of stupid questions and waste my time. I've been taking this medication for 5 years and you expect it to suddenly stop working? Just give me the damn pills so I can leave.
My gf got fucked around for an hour because of a horrible shitty doctor. She booked an appointment with a doctor who listed his interest as "psychiatric disorders" (depression, ADHD, etc) and he did fuck all. He just wanted to talk. The only reason she didn't punch him in the balls (like she should have) is because she's still young.
When I turn 60 and some douchebag doctor wants to talk about my cancer instead of fixing it, I'm going to stab that fucker in the throat.
All of them either single payer or insurance mandate. All of them spending less and getting better results.As Cybrsage said the EU is not a country with a single payer system, it's a lot of countries with a lot of different systems.
lol, I almost think this is just trolling. Your perceptions of what medicine should be, or how it should be practiced are so skewed it's frankly disturbing. To be honest, you sound like the kind of patient I would discharge from my practice and never see again.
I don't know his situation, but in both my parents cases, bad doctors (defy all logic - in the patients interest that is - type of stuff) nearly ended up killing them both.
Ambivalent, and just straight out bad, doctors can't be discounted...they're out there...
I would agree, ambivalent and "straight out bad" doctors exist, and they are bad. However, what the poster I quoted is describing is an absolutely terrible physician and he's lauding him, or he's condemning what sounds to be a good physician.
All of them either single payer or insurance mandate. All of them spending less and getting better results.
chucky2 said:If you run your own practice, what is your position on what is needed to get healthcare costs of expensive proceedures/tests down?
I'll give you an example for just me:
Last year I had lithotripy proceedure performed on a kidney stone in my left ureter...lower, just above my beltline, and they did do a stent. Just the Dr.'s portion, in a facility that has long since been paid off (the building is in good shape but old, the interior is in good shape modern but not high end, etc.) with the equipment somewhat old (the nurse referred to it non-jokingly as 'this old thing'), was $16k.
We were in there one hour in the room. The xray, other folks, they were all split out on the bill...just the urologists part was $16k. All at a site that obviously isn't needing to be paid off, or equipment that is being paid off.
How do we get that cost down, so when others that don't have the insurance that I've got need a lithotripsy, they don't dope them up and say, Drink lots of water, 'try and relax', push! Bye!
Chuck
Overhead.
That could quite possibly be the funniest thing I've read all week.
The fact that you *believe* it, could be the saddest thing I've read all week...
I don't see a reason a solution won't scale. We have similar economic metrics per capita.You really can't comprehend the problem comparing MUCH smaller countries and their health care systems to our can you?
American Medical Association's was vehemently opposed to Medicare before it was enacted. Now they are opposed to any cuts to Medicare. These doctors are only looking out for themselves. More is never enough.
In other words you're not a real doctor. Real doctors follow the medical model of the brain, which has been proven correct every time it has been tested. A good doctor understand the medical model. When I'm on a medication that works, a good doctor insist I keep taking the medication because it works. A bad doctor (you) insists on changing it. Sure this medication you've been taking for 5 years works perfectly and fixes everything that is wrong with you, but let's see what happens if you stop taking it and try to stimulate your hypothalamus by talking about it, hurpadurp.lol, I almost think this is just trolling. Your perceptions of what medicine should be, or how it should be practiced are so skewed it's frankly disturbing. To be honest, you sound like the kind of patient I would discharge from my practice and never see again.
If you're spending money on a PhD program you're doing it wrong. Most PhD programs are "free" in that tuition is fully paid for by scholarship - you are, of course, doing a shitload of research for the university and TAing classes. You pay for it by the sweat of your brow, but not in tuition dollars. PhD debt is significantly smaller than MD debt. As far as your last statement, PhD's do not have the responsibility that MD's do (patient's lives and well being), there should also be some financial incentive to shoulder that burden.
'Responsibility' means you're getting paged at 1AM, 1:15AM, 1:53AM, 2:40AM, 3:34AM, and so on, while the Ph.D. is snoring and dreaming about how awesome it sounds when someone actually refers to them as "Dr.". 'Responsibility' means that when the Dr. makes a mistake, someone is maybe injured or dies, the Ph.D. makes a mistake and no one notices because 80% of Ph.D.'s are as dumb as their BA brethern but just took the extra time to practice their "thinking" skills instead of going to get a real job.
I'll go with TheVrolok on the 'Responsibility' thing...
I stand corrected on this one - you're correct, PhD candidates in the U.S. by and large get their post-graduate tuitions paid for by their universities, and they also get stipends that cover their cost of living.
However, I checked on the cost of medical school, and your $250,000 was off. According to this article, the average indebtedness of medical-school graduates if $160,000.
http://gradschool.about.com/od/medicalschool/f/MedSchoolCost.htm
Now think about that: The average general-practice physician in America earns about $168,000 (2009 figure). The average salary of someone with a PhD in America is about $91,000 (2007 figure was 86,000, which I've adjusted for two years of inflation). So your argument amounts to the fact that 6 years of education (4 years of medical school plus 2 years of internship for a general-practice physician) + $160,000 of indebtedness is worth $77,000 more per year (or $3+ million for a 35+ year career) than 5 years of education (roughly the amount of post-graduate time required to earn a PhD) and no indebtedness. Or to put this another way, 1 extra year of school and $160,000 of additional debit is worth $3 million?
I don't buy it.