Do you think healthcare should be mandatory for America?

[apologetic]

no

 

[PingSpike]

It seems like becoming a doctor just for the money is a bad plan. There are other, more profitable professions that are much easier in both the length of study and the conditions under which one works. I think most doctors become doctors because they want to help people, not for the money.

Except for dermatologists.

 

[Broly]

Thanks Ping.
Atleast you realize that most kids that get into Medical school get in because they want to help people, not because htey want moeny
you can get all a doctor gets paid, and an open bar, at a law firm

 

[skrilla]

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: KMDupont64

Originally posted by: JLGatsby

Originally posted by: FrontlineWarrior
Mandatory? How about this:

People should be FORCED to exercise, FORCED to eat right, FORCED to get regular check ups and FORCED to take all the medications they are prescribed. Otherwise, no one should be FORCED to foot the bill, doctors should not be FORCED to work for crumbs, we should not be FORCED to care for someone who doesn't take care of himself.

Mandatory my ass. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to eat right and take care of yourself. Should you give up these rights, it can and will be used against you. Is that the world we want?

LIVE AND LET DIE, IS WHAT I SAY!

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[ibex333]

Didn't read through the whole thread, since it's too long, but I want to make my contribution too.
I think healthcare should be free just like it was free in Soviet Union. USSR might have had a thousand negative sides to it, but it also had a thousand positive sides. Some of them were free healthcare and free education. In my opinion it is rediculous to pay money for healthcare.
It's like saving someone's life and then asking for money in return for your good deed. DISGUSTING!!!
Helping a sick person should NOT be a business!! A doctor is supposed to be doing this out of goodness of his heart. If he/she dont feel this way, they shouldnt be a doctor. Simple. If you think I'm wrong, think of the Hipocrates oath. The govt. should pay the doctors for their important and noble job. NOT the common people.
"It is dumb to say get off your ass and work!" - because not everyone is capable of working. Taxes is the answer here.. You tax the healthy, strong, and the rich, so that the poor, weak, and sick can get free medical care and BECOME healthy, strong, get a job, and as a result, mabe even get rich. If you're pissed about too many people not working and abusing medicaid, then that's another story. But you have to remember that by far not everyone is dishonest and lazy. Most people who use it, NEED it.
In the end, if you ask me if I'd agree for the govt. to take some of my money that I earn and use it to provide free medical care across the country, I'd say hell yes. Take it and put it to good use.

I'm sure some of you, if not most, will disagree with me. Someone might even call me an idiot, or worse. But I stand by what I believe in(even if it is utopian), and I hope someday it will come true.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: ibex333
Didn't read through the whole thread, since it's too long, but I want to make my contribution too.
I think healthcare should be free just like it was free in Soviet Union. USSR might have had a thousand negative sides to it, but it also had a thousand positive sides. Some of them were free healthcare and free education. In my opinion it is rediculous to pay money for healthcare.
It's like saving someone's life and then asking for money in return for your good deed. DISGUSTING!!!
Helping a sick person should NOT be a business!! A doctor is supposed to be doing this out of goodness of his heart. If he/she dont feel this way, they shouldnt be a doctor. Simple. If you think I'm wrong, think of the Hipocrates oath. The govt. should pay the doctors for their important and noble job. NOT the common people.
"It is dumb to say get off your ass and work!" - because not everyone is capable of working. Taxes is the answer here.. You tax the healthy, strong, and the rich, so that the poor, weak, and sick can get free medical care and BECOME healthy, strong, get a job, and as a result, mabe even get rich. If you're pissed about too many people not working and abusing medicaid, then that's another story. But you have to remember that by far not everyone is dishonest and lazy. Most people who use it, NEED it.
In the end, if you ask me if I'd agree for the govt. to take some of my money that I earn and use it to provide free medical care across the country, I'd say hell yes. Take it and put it to good use.

I'm sure some of you, if not most, will disagree with me. Someone might even call me an idiot, or worse. But I stand by what I believe in(even if it is utopian), and I hope someday it will come true.

I find it far more "disgusting" to steal money from one person who earned it and pay for the mistakes of another person.

 

[Megadeth]

From the healthcare standpoint NO!!!

Here is why...

The level of care would go way way way down! This is because doctors won't make much money... They would be going ot other countries... This is what is happening in Canada.... I live right near the border from Canada and let me tell you that many choose to come here because there is better service. Some of the waiting lists are fairly large in Canada because many doctors would rather work int he states and make more money.

ANother point is that our taxes would go up.

Another point is the following.... You apply for 2 jobs, onoe offers better pay and no bennefits, the other job is the other way around.... in a country where you don't have to worry about it jobs that used that as a way to entice employees to work for them loose that edge.

If something like this was done then Doctors should be compensated for their time, knowledge and treatment......

This would be like me getting my degree and a whole bunch of Computer certifications and having the goverment say I need to provide tech support to people who come in and I will only see a small ammount of money for my time and knowledge.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Megadeth
From the healthcare standpoint NO!!!

Here is why...

The level of care would go way way way down! This is because doctors won't make much money... They would be going ot other countries... This is what is happening in Canada.... I live right near the border from Canada and let me tell you that many choose to come here because there is better service. Some of the waiting lists are fairly large in Canada because many doctors would rather work int he states and make more money.

ANother point is that our taxes would go up.

Another point is the following.... You apply for 2 jobs, onoe offers better pay and no bennefits, the other job is the other way around.... in a country where you don't have to worry about it jobs that used that as a way to entice employees to work for them loose that edge.

If something like this was done then Doctors should be compensated for their time, knowledge and treatment......

This would be like me getting my degree and a whole bunch of Computer certifications and having the goverment say I need to provide tech support to people who come in and I will only see a small ammount of money for my time and knowledge.

Doctors were going to the US because of $$. Many are returning to Canada because once they got into the US system they got bogged down with paperwork and dealing with Insurance companies. The flow is back into Canada at the moment.

 

[NMDJuggler]

The government pays our teachers next to squat for their altruistic profession, and look how wonderful the education system is in the U.S. Sarcasm off. Paying doctors less is only a part of the financial problem anyway. Medical tests and equipment costs money. Drugs cost money. Hospital food costs money. Oh, and medical malpractice insurance costs money. High risk practicioners are leaving the profession 'cause they can't make money anymore. Insurace high, wages low. Docs are nice people, but they gotta eat!

 

[SampSon]

No, I'm sick of busting my ass so others can freeload. We honest workers pay out of our ass while poor families get a free ride, now I should foot the bill for their health care? How about no.
I'll stick with the "pay to play" system because it works great for me.

Doctors were going to the US because of $$. Many are returning to Canada because once they got into the US system they got bogged down with paperwork and dealing with Insurance companies. The flow is back into Canada at the moment.

Any actual sources you can cite that back your opinion? I do remember years back that the Canadian armed forces was giving doctors like 150K-200K signing bonus because the country was in such dire need for them.

I find it hard to believe that an American born citizen doctor would flock to Canada to practice, regardless of getting "bogged down with paperwork". So it's either get bogged down with insurance paperwork or government redtape. I'll take the insurance paperwork, thanks.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: SampSon
No, I'm sick of busting my ass so others can freeload. We honest workers pay out of our ass while poor families get a free ride, now I should foot the bill for their health care? How about no.
I'll stick with the "pay to play" system because it works great for me.

Doctors were going to the US because of $$. Many are returning to Canada because once they got into the US system they got bogged down with paperwork and dealing with Insurance companies. The flow is back into Canada at the moment.

Any actual sources you can cite that back your opinion? I do remember years back that the Canadian armed forces was giving doctors like 150K-200K signing bonus because the country was in such dire need for them.

I find it hard to believe that an American born citizen doctor would flock to Canada to practice, regardless of getting "bogged down with paperwork". So it's either get bogged down with insurance paperwork or government redtape. I'll take the insurance paperwork, thanks.

I'll look for a link, but until then:

The Military looking for Drs is an entirely different issue than the Healthcare system overall. You are correct in that years ago all kinds of Healthcare workers were going to the US.

When I said "the flow is back into Canada" I didn't mean US born/trained Drs coming to Canada, but Canadian Drs that went to the US coming back to Canada.

One of the major complaints was the sheer difficulty in getting approval for patient care in the US. The Drs complain about the amount of work it is just to get approval, something that pretty much doesn't exist in the Canadian system. In the Canadian system there might be a waiting list to get certain services, but all it takes to actually get those services is for the Dr to state that it's needed. There is practically no red tape involved.

Speaking of Red Tape, a major difference between the US and Canadian situations is the sheer number of parties involved. A Canadian Dr only deals with 1 Provider, while the US counterpart deals with dozens each with their own procedures, forms, and other issues that make the paper work much more complex.

edit: Link discussing the issue, I've seen other reports regarding former Healthcare Professionals choosing to return to Canada, but couldn't find a link to those stories.

 

[imported_sling]

We don't need government funded health care. The goverment doesn't owe you anything but the defense and insurance of your rights as a human.

What we need in the US is for insurance companies quit paying bloated prices for healthcare. I'm talking about the price of medicine/doctor visits/surgery everything. It's a capitalist world. If you don't like the price, don't buy. If enough people don't buy it the price comes down. That's what we're about in America. If Joe has something to sell and John wants it, Joe is free to ask the highest price he thinks John will pay. If John doesn't like the price then he doesn't buy. So long as blue cross is willing to pay the prices that the medical industry charges for products and services the prices will remain where they are and go up.

I don't pretend that this is the only answer, but I fail to see my citizenship as entitlement to free medical care. Everything is better left to the private sector as far as I'm concerned. We can't control government spending now, imagine if we had tax payer dollars going to a fund for everyone to have healthcare from? That'd have to be a ton of money. Can you see the abuse of it being an issue? I can.

Socialism looks great on paper. Nothing is free. You aren't entitled to anything.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Broly
Another common misconception about canada.

You think fat people get fat loosing drugs free? Man you are TOTALLY confused.

Universal healthcare allows you to receive DEDUCTIONS on your drugs according to your plan, you then pay the rest.

But we never pay doctor's for checkups that's all handled by healthcare.

You believe people should die because they cannot afford to finance their health care? You are a sick son of a gun.

Satan's waiting. You fell into the trap God made for us, the trap of greed and selfishness. It's warm so bring sunglasses.

Where the hell did you get people getting fatloss,cholesterol drugs free? That stuff isn't covered since it's their own fault.

Christian Socialism?

Pick up your straw men toys and go play elsewhere.

Funny you mention it, but yes. Much of Western Socialism has been founded by Christian Ministers seeking to fulfil their calling to Good Works as dictated by Jesus.

Funny, most American Christians believe in cradle to the crave toil, in the hopes of greater rewards in heaven and push their "if you're not working (24/7), you're sinning" on the rest of us who would rather just work our 40-60hrs/week and spend time with our family and friends.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: broon
No. Americans should get of their lazy butts and work for it.

there are PLENTY of people who actually DO work and either get NO health insurance or a very sucky one. (Max coverage $1k/year dental...)

Also..we get taxed TWICE...once we earn our money from work, second time when we purchase goods.

So the answer is YES <-

Anyway it will never happen because SOME things in this country will never be right since commons snse is obviously WAY over some people's heads Your answer "no, people should work" is the best example for this. I dont think you know ANYTHING about this issue.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: CheesePoofs
Definately. Too many people work all day long and still can't pay for healthcare. And while we're at it, we impose an much larger income tax on the rich while lowering the tax on those who can't afford it.

yeah...no healthcare. Let the EMPLOYERS (big corporates) save *their* money/costs on benefits/providing healthcare...let them cut wages/outsource/cut benefits (what they actually DO in real life left and right)...so a "single" company's profits look better on paper. ("Yeah we just cut our costs about 30% - means: 'we're doing better as a company than last year") ...Too bad that the economy as a whole will suffer.


regarding: "steal others money"...i agree....but i think it's more important to see how many are WORKING and still cant afford it. Thats the point actually.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Broly
Another common misconception about canada.

You think fat people get fat loosing drugs free? Man you are TOTALLY confused.

Universal healthcare allows you to receive DEDUCTIONS on your drugs according to your plan, you then pay the rest.

But we never pay doctor's for checkups that's all handled by healthcare.

You believe people should die because they cannot afford to finance their health care? You are a sick son of a gun.

Satan's waiting. You fell into the trap God made for us, the trap of greed and selfishness. It's warm so bring sunglasses.

Where the hell did you get people getting fatloss,cholesterol drugs free? That stuff isn't covered since it's their own fault.

Christian Socialism?

Pick up your straw men toys and go play elsewhere.

Funny you mention it, but yes. Much of Western Socialism has been founded by Christian Ministers seeking to fulfil their calling to Good Works as dictated by Jesus.

Funny, most American Christians believe in cradle to the crave toil, in the hopes of greater rewards in heaven and push their "if you're not working (24/7), you're sinning" on the rest of us who would rather just work our 40-60hrs/week and spend time with our family and friends.

Might be the reason why Socialism has never realy caught on in the US, but has elsewhere. Prevailing American Christian beliefs are really quite different than Christian beliefs elsewhere. Even in Canada which comes closest to American Christian types, the difference is very significant.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Broly
Another common misconception about canada.

You think fat people get fat loosing drugs free? Man you are TOTALLY confused.

Universal healthcare allows you to receive DEDUCTIONS on your drugs according to your plan, you then pay the rest.

But we never pay doctor's for checkups that's all handled by healthcare.

You believe people should die because they cannot afford to finance their health care? You are a sick son of a gun.

Satan's waiting. You fell into the trap God made for us, the trap of greed and selfishness. It's warm so bring sunglasses.

Where the hell did you get people getting fatloss,cholesterol drugs free? That stuff isn't covered since it's their own fault.

Christian Socialism?

Pick up your straw men toys and go play elsewhere.

Funny you mention it, but yes. Much of Western Socialism has been founded by Christian Ministers seeking to fulfil their calling to Good Works as dictated by Jesus.

Funny, most American Christians believe in cradle to the crave toil, in the hopes of greater rewards in heaven and push their "if you're not working (24/7), you're sinning" on the rest of us who would rather just work our 40-60hrs/week and spend time with our family and friends.

Might be the reason why Socialism has never realy caught on in the US, but has elsewhere. Prevailing American Christian beliefs are really quite different than Christian beliefs elsewhere. Even in Canada which comes closest to American Christian types, the difference is very significant.

If that were true, then socialism would have completely caught in the US over 150 years ago. Nothing is more "cradle to the grave toil" than the machine state.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Broly
Another common misconception about canada.

You think fat people get fat loosing drugs free? Man you are TOTALLY confused.

Universal healthcare allows you to receive DEDUCTIONS on your drugs according to your plan, you then pay the rest.

But we never pay doctor's for checkups that's all handled by healthcare.

You believe people should die because they cannot afford to finance their health care? You are a sick son of a gun.

Satan's waiting. You fell into the trap God made for us, the trap of greed and selfishness. It's warm so bring sunglasses.

Where the hell did you get people getting fatloss,cholesterol drugs free? That stuff isn't covered since it's their own fault.

Christian Socialism?

Pick up your straw men toys and go play elsewhere.

Funny you mention it, but yes. Much of Western Socialism has been founded by Christian Ministers seeking to fulfil their calling to Good Works as dictated by Jesus.

Funny, most American Christians believe in cradle to the crave toil, in the hopes of greater rewards in heaven and push their "if you're not working (24/7), you're sinning" on the rest of us who would rather just work our 40-60hrs/week and spend time with our family and friends.

Might be the reason why Socialism has never realy caught on in the US, but has elsewhere. Prevailing American Christian beliefs are really quite different than Christian beliefs elsewhere. Even in Canada which comes closest to American Christian types, the difference is very significant.

If that were true, then socialism would have completely caught in the US over 150 years ago. Nothing is more "cradle to the grave toil" than the machine state.

The concept was yet to be invented.

 

[SampSon]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: SampSon
No, I'm sick of busting my ass so others can freeload. We honest workers pay out of our ass while poor families get a free ride, now I should foot the bill for their health care? How about no.
I'll stick with the "pay to play" system because it works great for me.

Doctors were going to the US because of $$. Many are returning to Canada because once they got into the US system they got bogged down with paperwork and dealing with Insurance companies. The flow is back into Canada at the moment.

Any actual sources you can cite that back your opinion? I do remember years back that the Canadian armed forces was giving doctors like 150K-200K signing bonus because the country was in such dire need for them.

I find it hard to believe that an American born citizen doctor would flock to Canada to practice, regardless of getting "bogged down with paperwork". So it's either get bogged down with insurance paperwork or government redtape. I'll take the insurance paperwork, thanks.

I'll look for a link, but until then:

The Military looking for Drs is an entirely different issue than the Healthcare system overall. You are correct in that years ago all kinds of Healthcare workers were going to the US.

When I said "the flow is back into Canada" I didn't mean US born/trained Drs coming to Canada, but Canadian Drs that went to the US coming back to Canada.

One of the major complaints was the sheer difficulty in getting approval for patient care in the US. The Drs complain about the amount of work it is just to get approval, something that pretty much doesn't exist in the Canadian system. In the Canadian system there might be a waiting list to get certain services, but all it takes to actually get those services is for the Dr to state that it's needed. There is practically no red tape involved.

Speaking of Red Tape, a major difference between the US and Canadian situations is the sheer number of parties involved. A Canadian Dr only deals with 1 Provider, while the US counterpart deals with dozens each with their own procedures, forms, and other issues that make the paper work much more complex.

edit: Link discussing the issue, I've seen other reports regarding former Healthcare Professionals choosing to return to Canada, but couldn't find a link to those stories.

If I had a choice I would always prefer medical care in America over Canada. I've spent a great deal of my life in Canada and even lived there for a stint. The entire socialist medical system chokes when specialists come into play. I personally trust the private sector more than the public sector in all aspects.

But it's good that Canadian doctors are staying in Canada and practicing there, more jobs for American doctors here and more doctors in Canada to treat Canadians.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: sandorski
The concept was yet to be invented.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: sandorski
The concept was yet to be invented.

pfft... the concept of modern socialism is at least 200 years old. With roots dating back to ancient Rome and Greece. The English word "socialism" itself dates back to at least the 1820's.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sandorski
The concept was yet to be invented.

pfft... the concept of modern socialism is at least 200 years old. With roots dating back to ancient Rome and Greece. The English word "socialism" itself dates back to at least the 1820's.

My bad, I always thought Socialism was an offshoot of Marxism. I see now that Marx was probably influenced by them and not the other way around.

That said, Why do you think the US would have become Socialist in relation to my previous(to that statement) comment?

 

[Megadeth]

Originally posted by: SampSon
No, I'm sick of busting my ass so others can freeload. We honest workers pay out of our ass while poor families get a free ride, now I should foot the bill for their health care? How about no.
I'll stick with the "pay to play" system because it works great for me.

Doctors were going to the US because of $$. Many are returning to Canada because once they got into the US system they got bogged down with paperwork and dealing with Insurance companies. The flow is back into Canada at the moment.

Any actual sources you can cite that back your opinion? I do remember years back that the Canadian armed forces was giving doctors like 150K-200K signing bonus because the country was in such dire need for them.

I find it hard to believe that an American born citizen doctor would flock to Canada to practice, regardless of getting "bogged down with paperwork". So it's either get bogged down with insurance paperwork or government redtape. I'll take the insurance paperwork, thanks.

I agree with you. My fiance has been working in healthcare for several years now. Any doctor she has ever talked to is deadset against all this nonsense. In fact, being that she had her classes in Port Huron.... Just across the waterway from Canada, she had a couple instructors at the college that pretty much have told her that many citizens close enough to the states come here because we have better equipment and more doctors.

Lets face it there is paperwork when the government is paying for it and there is paperwork when insurance companies pay for it. Being that my fiance works for doctors and this has been the subject of popular discussion (including at her employee christmas party I attended) I think I heard first hand from several of the doctors there how they feel about the issue.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Communist!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sandorski
The concept was yet to be invented.

pfft... the concept of modern socialism is at least 200 years old. With roots dating back to ancient Rome and Greece. The English word "socialism" itself dates back to at least the 1820's.

My bad, I always thought Socialism was an offshoot of Marxism. I see now that Marx was probably influenced by them and not the other way around.

That said, Why do you think the US would have become Socialist in relation to my previous(to that statement) comment?

Yes, Marxism is an offshoot of socialism, not the other way around.

To answer your question: because many Christian religions in the US actually did try socialism from the 1830's to 1850's. Most notably the Mormons, who made a wholehearted attempt at it. It failed.